Is playing the ONLY way to become a productive QB?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

We've seen this little nugget of conventional wisdom trotted out a number of times as a part of arguments that Losman should start Sunday.

 

Though this factoid is said as though it worth the obvious truth I think this runs counter to what has really happened in the NFL.

 

Witness Chad Pennington and Michael Vick who saw next to nothing in PT (or less than nothing in Pennington's case as his first start didn't happen until his third year) as rookies and quickly led team's to the playoffs in their first season as fultime starters.

 

An NFL QB MUST play in order to br productive. However, the idea that this is the ONLY thing he can do to become productive and is the ONLY thing he should focus on is simply wrong in my view.

 

I vote no to this in particular in Losman's case because while he must play against NFL level competition to become the QB we want him to be. I strikes me as actually not as near the first thing I want him to do to address the issues he must address to become productive. In fact, the things which Losman will get ONLY from playing in real games, application of the athleticism needed to play against NFL competition and how to lead teammates are two of the issues I worry least about him learning and perfecting as he has demonstrated his athleticism and his leadership brashness in college.

 

Among the key skills I see as essential to a productive NFL QB and the best method of developing a player to acquire them are:

 

1. Veteran understanding of NFL offenses and defenses- PT is essential in achieving this as the game looks different as I understand it over the center\s back and in games. Yet. tape and the books are the fundamental basis for this and being a good athlete who does not understand the game makes you Billy Joe Hobert. Losman needs PT to perfect this, but has had a wonderful opportunity due to his unfortunate injury to learn this skill from Sam Wyche in the booth which far exceed any ability to learn the basics by playing. Further, to the extent PT is essential preseason and practice against his teamates will give him the chance to learn its lessons against NFL level wompetition while still allowing him to focus most on the part he needs to focus on/

2. Playing at NFL speed against NFL competition- Again this is a piece best learned through PT, but given his athleticism I think this is a necessary but lesser worry and one done well by him in practice against his teammates (who he now knows can hurt him as well) or in next pre-season so that sitting now will not leave him with no chance to do this before the regular season next year/

3. Leadership bility- I think this only truly comes through PT, but the confidence in yourself and of your teammates in you ojnly come with success. I think last nights game should be a cautionary tale to those who advocate playing Losman right now that merely throwing him to the wolves really is a bad thing. He should be employed by the Bills in a scenario where his good play can build a winning habit of success and not out of desperation and setting him up to fail.

4. Mechanics- One of the great things about how the Pats have played is that it has re-emphasized players being players who can go both ways rather than the oversystemization and specialization inherent in the NFL. However, it is critical that as Losman develops chemistry with his teammates that he do the same things in the same way basically. The braintrust needs to be assured that his mechanics are sound and consistent. This is best done through repetitive practice.

 

PT is a need for JP. but not the only or first need for him be developed well into a productive NFL QB.

[Rubes]

You're right...it's been so much fun watching Drew regress to become the biggest joke of a quarterback, why stop now?

[Thailog80]

You're right...it's been so much fun watching Drew regress to become the biggest joke of a quarterback, why stop now?

119295[/snapback]

 

Next week they're bringing the entire offense on the field in a Tiny Volkswagon Bug.

[ICE]

FFS Get a clue. it's now 8 yes and No 0. Christ man you are not going to win this arguement no matter how hard you bang your heads against the wall.

 

the ONLY WAY TO GET BETTER IS TO PLAY!

[outsidethebox]

I remember a certain rookie QB who played for Dallas by the name of Troy Aikmen. That team went 1-15 in his first year. He and his team didn't turn out too bad, did he?

[Bear]

I think a good recent example is Carson Palmer. Last year, Kitna played so well that Palmer never had to come on the field. It was a good situation for Cinci since they didn't have to rush their rookie along. Now, this year they start Palmer. He has a year under his belt, and should be good to go...right?

If you have paid attention to the cinci games (I've seen quite a few) you can see the leaps and bounds he is making every week. He had a pretty good first week, but after this his play was pretty much below average. Every week, he looks more confident, reads better, moves around in the pocket better...etc.

You CAN learn things by sitting on the sidelines, but you MUST, MUST, MUST get on the field to learn learn how to be an NFL QB.

Simple as that.

[Alaska Darin]

I remember a certain rookie QB who played for Dallas by the name of  Troy Aikmen. That team went 1-15 in his first year. He and his team didn't turn out too bad, did he?

119310[/snapback]

Now if we could just get the Vikings to trade us half of their draft choices over the next couple of seasons and three veteran starters for Travis Henry...

[Thailog80]

Now if we could just get the Vikings to trade us half of their draft choices over the next couple of seasons and three veteran starters for Travis Henry...

119321[/snapback]

 

Well McCombs is looking for an excuse to move the franchise.....

[ICE]

Now if we could just get the Vikings to trade us half of their draft choices over the next couple of seasons and three veteran starters for Travis Henry...

119321[/snapback]

 

 

Darin look that isn't fair. You talk about the draft picks, but they were rookies at the same time or just before/after Aikman.

[Alaska Darin]

Darin look that isn't fair.  You talk about the draft picks, but they were rookies at the same time or just before/after Aikman.

119325[/snapback]

Ah, but it is. There are WAY more examples of QBs being beaten into submission by playing them too early than there are HOF examples. Just the way it is.

 

Go back and look at Johnson's draft history. It was a disaster for the most part, with the saving grace being the sheer volume of picks he had to work with.

[ICE]

Ah, but it is.  There are WAY more examples of QBs being beaten into submission by playing them too early than there are HOF examples.  Just the way it is.

 

Go back and look at Johnson's draft history.  It was a disaster for the most part, with the saving grace being the sheer volume of picks he had to work with.

119330[/snapback]

 

 

Granted. But that didn't have much to do with Aikman playing QB as a rookie.

[Nanker]

NO! Wait a second. I've got the PERFECT plan!

 

Let's not start JP until Drew gets us to the SuperBowl!

 

Then we'll have JP start the game and he'll be like, our secret weapon, man.

Wowzie! I just LOVE IT when I get a brainstorm like this.

I just feel all bubbly inside!

 

That MUST be TD's plan. I see it so clearly now.

Nobody will expect Drew to even get us there, and then - to pop JP on the scene in the big game!

WOW! WHAT A PLAN!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

What? It's time for my evening med's nurse?

OK. I'll follow the nice man down the hall to get my shot.

Thank you Nurse Ratchet! May I have another?

[Guest cal t]

We've seen this little nugget of conventional wisdom trotted out a number of times as a part of arguments that Losman should start Sunday.

 

Though this factoid is  said as though it worth the obvious truth I think this runs counter to what has really happened in the NFL.

 

Witness Chad Pennington and Michael Vick who saw next to nothing in PT (or less than nothing in Pennington's case as his first start didn't happen until his third year) as rookies and quickly led team's to the playoffs in their first season as fultime starters.

 

An NFL QB MUST play in order to br productive.  However, the idea that this is the ONLY thing he can do to become productive and is the ONLY thing he should focus on is simply wrong in my view.

 

I vote no to this in particular in Losman's case because while he must play against NFL level competition to become the QB we want him to be. I strikes me as actually not as near the first thing I want him to do to address the issues he must address to become productive.  In fact, the things which Losman will get ONLY from playing in real games, application of the athleticism needed to play against NFL competition and how to lead teammates are two of the issues I worry least about him learning and perfecting as he has demonstrated his athleticism and his leadership brashness in college.

 

Among the key skills I see as essential to a productive NFL QB and the best method of developing a player to acquire them are:

 

1. Veteran understanding of NFL offenses and defenses- PT is essential in achieving this as the game looks different as I understand it over the center\s back and in games. Yet. tape and the books are the fundamental basis for this and being a good athlete who does not understand the game makes you Billy Joe Hobert.  Losman needs PT to perfect this, but has had a wonderful opportunity due to his unfortunate injury to learn this skill from Sam Wyche in the booth which far exceed any ability to learn the basics by playing.  Further, to the extent PT is essential preseason and practice against his teamates will give him the chance to learn its lessons against NFL level wompetition  while still allowing him to focus most on the part he needs to focus on/

2. Playing at NFL speed against NFL competition- Again this is a piece best learned through PT, but given his athleticism I think this is a necessary but lesser worry and one done well by him in practice against his teammates (who he now knows can hurt him as well) or in next pre-season so that sitting now will not leave him with no chance to do this before the regular season next year/

3. Leadership bility- I think this only truly comes through PT, but the confidence in yourself and of your teammates in you ojnly come with success.  I think last nights game should be a cautionary tale to those who advocate playing Losman right now that merely throwing him to the wolves really is a bad thing. He should be employed by the Bills in a scenario where his good play can build a winning habit of success and not out of desperation and setting him up to fail.

4. Mechanics- One of the great things about how the Pats have played is that it has re-emphasized players being players who can go both ways rather than the oversystemization and specialization inherent in the NFL.  However, it is critical that as Losman develops chemistry with his teammates that he do the same things in the same way basically.  The braintrust needs to be assured that his mechanics are sound and consistent.  This is best done through repetitive practice.

 

PT is a need for JP. but not the only or first need for him be developed well into a productive NFL QB.

119229[/snapback]

WELL SAID FAKE FAT......good points

[Rubes]

Ah, but it is.  There are WAY more examples of QBs being beaten into submission by playing them too early than there are HOF examples.  Just the way it is.

119330[/snapback]

 

 

And how exactly do you know that it was "playing them too early" that caused their demise? Perhaps they would have been just as awful if they had waited on the sidelines for another year or two?

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

FFS Get a clue. it's now 8 yes  and No 0.  Christ man you are not going to win this arguement no matter how hard you bang your heads against the wall.

 

the ONLY WAY TO GET BETTER IS TO PLAY!

119306[/snapback]

 

 

I certainly don't expect to win any arguments on the internet (or in real life either where I'm pretty used from growing up as a boy who thought the Democrats were a stinky party in Dick Daley's Chicago where there were 44 Dems, 5 independents and 1 Repub on the 50 member city council, I grew up with folks disagreeing with me so I'm pretty used to it).

 

What I did hope for and have yet to see it is anyone lay out a rational argument (even much shorter than my usual screeds would be fine) and even fact no one has provided even one objective argument beyond their fact free opinions or a couple of anecdotes as to why playing (starting in JPs case) is the ONLY way to get better.

 

Again (AND I'M TYPING SLOWLY THIS TIME). do posters really think that PT is the ONLY way a player can improve their game or is even the first thing all players must do to be come productive?

 

Its true in this league unfortunately that almost all players (RoboQB may prove to be the incredibly rare exception but we'll see) need to study and practice in order to improve. Particularly with two cases, QBs because OCs have made the game so complicated and projects because they have some clear flaws, the first order of action is rarely PT. Somehow from this start where their butts and their brains do most of the work, the Penningtons, Vicks. and even former soccer players turned best in the league at their position like Vanderjagts or found.

 

If the way to "win" this argument is to have few coherent thoughts on your side but merely be driven by a hatred of Drew, fear or desire or whatever to hope Losman can step in and lead us to glory regardless of how his broken bone recovers from play, regardless of whether he has gained a substantial understanding of the pro game and regardless of whether his mechanics or sound or not, I concede I have "lost" this argument (though if there are no fabulous prizes involved the concept of winning or losing is fairly illusory.