Dennis in NC Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 It is almost bizarre to read the article where McCargo talks all about Mario Williams, gushing about MW's work ethic and all. Hey pal, doesn't any of that sound do-able for you?!?! What a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I haven't seen his name at all. Has he played? Any progress? is he a bigger bust then mike williams since we traded up to get him?? though im interested in why polian wanted him.. that does make his stock a little higher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I haven't seen his name at all. Has he played? Any progress? He might play against the Texans since Williams has an injury. Also look for Maybin to get a lot more playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geaux Bills! Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 McCargo is a bust. kyle Williams has outplayed him since they came into the league together. People used to blame it on Kollar, b/c they thought mccargo was getting a raw deal, but now that Sanders is in here, he still isnt playing. He officially can be labeled a bust. We aren't going to be able to get anything for him, so when the season is over, just release him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 McCargo is a bust and absolutely needs to be replaced. Before the season, I had hoped that he would develop into a solid backup/rotational player but he is very weak when he is out there. With Williams out, this is his final chance with the Bills. He will probably get 10-15 plays in this game. He has to make something happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Yeah, I'm thinking out of the league next year. Although Ron Edwards is still kicking around in KC and in fact I heard an announcer (scarily) refer to him as one of KC's better defensive players, so you never know. Maybe McCargo ends up signing somewhere for the vet min. What a missed opportunity that trade deal with Indy was. Was that for a fourth rounder? That would've been highway robbery, if only he could've passed a physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Yeah, I'm thinking out of the league next year. Although Ron Edwards is still kicking around in KC and in fact I heard an announcer (scarily) refer to him as one of KC's better defensive players, so you never know. Maybe McCargo ends up signing somewhere for the vet min. What a missed opportunity that trade deal with Indy was. Was that for a fourth rounder? That would've been highway robbery, if only he could've passed a physical. Just bad luck. The Bills have had plenty of it in the last few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 It is almost bizarre to read the article where McCargo talks all about Mario Williams, gushing about MW's work ethic and all. Hey pal, doesn't any of that sound do-able for you?!?! What a bust. I thought that article would be another puff piece about how JM has stepped up his approach to the game. And all it talked about knowing Williams from the NCST days. In 2006, Marv tried to forge a front office that cooperated and made compromises. Unfortunately, he couldn't be a leader after having been out of the league for nearly a decade. This very approach, still alive and not well, is what gets you picks like McCargo. It also finds average players who can't change games. Or you find busts that never play well. Oh, and having incompetent holdovers from the TD regime also hurts. Modrak and Guy have to go and be replaced with completely new GM, Pro Personnel Director, and Amateur Scouting Director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbzh2 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 In his last year with the Bills Kollar was asked about McCargo, he said something to the effect that you can have a great deal of talent in the NFL, but it won’t help you to succeed if you don’t “want it”…implying that working hard, and applying your skills are the necessary ingredients for NFL success….and with no hesitation he stated that McCargo “didn’t want it.” The truth hurts sometimes, and it’s my guess that that is why McCargo hated Kollar. McCargo always seemed to be a lazy a$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Levitre - Mangold - Wood - Oher Thanks for nothing Modrak and Guy... Where's Peters? I don't know how the Bills would have worked Wood and Oher in this year's draft, as both were 1st round draft picks. Obviously, you pass on Maybin and select Oher (wise move), but you would still trade Peters to Philly and use that pick on Wood (another good move IMO)? I don't know. Those Peters lovers didn't catch this one, I take it. There is a nice article in today's Buffalo News about the recent success of the Texans; our opponent this coming Sunday. Talks about the success the Texans have had in drafting and KEEPING their 1st round draft picks within the last 8 years of their existence. Here are the Bills 1st round draft picks, this decade: 2000- Erik Flowers- no longer with team (is he even in the NFL anymore?) 2001- Nate Clements- no longer with team (left as free agent to San Francisco) 2002- Mike Williams- no longer with team (One of the biggest busts (literally and figuratively) in Donahoe and NFL) 2003- Willis McGahee- no longer with team (Sent packing to Baltimore- good riddance) 2004- Lee Evans- still with team (currently struggling despite contract) 2004- JP Losman- no longer with team (currently playing for Las Vegas in minor league football) 2005- No first round pick 2006- Donte Whitner- still with team (playing status in question with emergence of Byrd) 2007- John McCargo- still with team (but a tremendous waste of a 1st round pick and will most likely be gone after this year) 2008- Leodis McElvin- still with team 2009- Aaron Maybin- still with team 2009- Eric Wood- still with team Now, in contrast to the Texans, based on today's Buffalo News article: www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/845496. "The Texans are a team on the rise because of some outstanding drafts and shrewd free agent acquisitions. Six of their seven first-rounders are still with the team. They missed on quarterback David Carr, the No. 1 overall selection in 2002, but they hit home runs with Johnson (2003), Robinson (2004), Williams (2006), defensive tackle Amobi Okoye (2007), Brown (2008) and linebacker Brian Cushing (2009). Johnson in particular has achieved superstar status. A physical specimen with great size and speed, the 6-foot-3, 225-pounder led the league in catches (115) and receiving yards (1,575) last season, and is first in yards (634 on 38 catches) this year. The only player to reach 500 career catches in fewer games than Johnson's 88 was Arizona's Anquan Boldin (80). Another high-profile pick was Williams, whose No. 1 overall selection in 2006 created controversy as Texans fans coveted University of Texas quarterback and Houston native Vince Young. But Williams silenced critics by becoming the dominant pass rusher the team envisioned he would be with 36.5 sacks in three-plus seasons. Robinson is the Texans' career leader with 13 interceptions. There have been signs of future stardom from Okoye, the youngest player drafted into the NFL at age 19, Brown and Cushing, who leads all rookies with a team-high 56 tackles. The Texans have connected on players after Round One as well. Ryans was a second-round steal. Slaton, starting right tackle Eric Winston and wide receiver-return ace Jacoby Jones were terrific third-round finds. Pro Bowl tight end Owen Daniels was a hidden gem in the fourth round. "The way you build in this league is through the draft," Kubiak said. "That's obviously the route that we decided to start taking four years ago. We put these guys to work right away. They were starting from Day One. "Obviously, if you miss on some of those draft choices that could set you back a long, long way. We've been very fortunate that these guys are doing their job and look like they have some bright futures." It also helps when free agent signings work out. The Texans' boldest move was their 2007 trade with Atlanta for Schaub, who spent three years backing up Michael Vick. In addition to swapping first-round draft picks, the Texans gave up second-round picks in 2007 and 2008. Then they signed Schaub to a six-year, $48 million contract. After two injury-plagued years, Schaub is having a huge '09 season, leading the NFL in passing yards (2,074) and touchdowns (16)." So, let's look at the Bills success of drafting 1st round success statistically for this decade. Out of 12 1st round draft picks, 5 are no longer with the team (41.7%) 1 was traded away for the rights to Losman (8.3%) 6 are technically still with the team, but due to the Bills attempting to trade him last year to Indy and his lack of playing time this year, I will not count him as "being on the team". Therefore, 5 are still with the team (41.7%) Even with that number, will the Bills retain Whitner once he recovers from his injury? They moved him to FS with Scott playing SS for a bigger body in the secondary to provide run support, but with the emergence of Byrd does Whitner get onto the field as a starter anymore? Would his contract then make him a rather expensive back-up and does if Byrd continues does this spend the end of Whitner and, therefore, another 1st round pick no longer with the team? If McCargo is released after this season, that would put the number of players at 6 that are 1st round draft picks no longer with the team and moving the ratio to 50% rate of failure. Put Whitner in there, and the rate of failure jumps to 58.3%. Add that with the draft pick traded away for Losman and that jumps to a 66.6% rate of failure for the draft "experts" at OBD. In simpler terms, the Bills are attempting to build a team with a success rate of 1/3, or 33.3%. If what the Texans Kubiak says is true in terms of building a team through the draft, the Bills are killing themselves. Wood looks like the real deal, and McKelvin seems to be solid as well. But Maybin is also struggling for playing time- granted, he did hold out all of training camp and as per Fewell, opposing defenses are focusing on attacking Buffalo's inferior run defense- thus eliminating the need for a pass-rush specialist such as Maybin. So, it is still too early to quit on Maybin...yet. But does this make enough of a case that Modrak should go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 For all that vaunted young talent on the Texans' roster, they are only marginally better than the Bills. I'll wait until they actually post a winning record (let alone make the playoffs) before using their talent evaluation as a knock on the Bills' FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 For all that vaunted young talent on the Texans' roster, they are only marginally better than the Bills. I'll wait until they actually post a winning record (let alone make the playoffs) before using their talent evaluation as a knock on the Bills' FO. Johnson vrs Evans Akoye vrs McCargo Duane Brown vrs Mike Williams Mario Williams vrs Maybin Their picks have been earlier in the draft, but having high draft picks hasn't helped the Bills land quality talent. Cant say much about the later rounds, but they do draft better in round one, just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 In his last year with the Bills Kollar was asked about McCargo, he said something to the effect that you can have a great deal of talent in the NFL, but it won’t help you to succeed if you don’t “want it”…implying that working hard, and applying your skills are the necessary ingredients for NFL success….and with no hesitation he stated that McCargo “didn’t want it.” The truth hurts sometimes, and it’s my guess that that is why McCargo hated Kollar. McCargo always seemed to be a lazy a$$. That's why success in college doesn't necessarily translate to success in the NFL. In college, it's possible to stand out on raw talent, especially if the schedule is against weaker teams. But once you're on an NFL team, everybody's big, fast, strong, etc. so you have to continue to elevate your play to match the increased complexity and speed of the NFL. Now it's a real job, as opposed to more of a game in college. Lots of guys can't make the adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Johnson vrs Evans Akoye vrs McCargo Duane Brown vrs Mike Williams Mario Williams vrs Maybin Their picks have been earlier in the draft, but having high draft picks hasn't helped the Bills land quality talent. Cant say much about the later rounds, but they do draft better in round one, just saying. Sure, but again, what has it netted the Texans? 8-8 two years running, and coming into this week at 4-3. I'm not trying to argue that the Bills have done a great job with their drafting, just saying that using the Texans as your point of comparison is highly suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 For all that vaunted young talent on the Texans' roster, they are only marginally better than the Bills. I'll wait until they actually post a winning record (let alone make the playoffs) before using their talent evaluation as a knock on the Bills' FO. you obviously havent watched the Texans much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 you obviously havent watched the Texans much I've watched them here and there as they've gotten off to a 4-3 start. Every year I hear that this is going to be the year the Texans take the next step, and yet here they are again, barely above .500. So forgive me if I wait to hail their drafting until they've shown that they actually have a decent team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've watched them here and there as they've gotten off to a 4-3 start. Every year I hear that this is going to be the year the Texans take the next step, and yet here they are again, barely above .500. So forgive me if I wait to hail their drafting until they've shown that they actually have a decent team. As much as I love the chess boxer picture, it is clear that the Texans have gotten more out of their 1st round draft picks for the past 10 years than have the Bills. The Bills, as pointed out by an excellent poster, does complete a more successful draft in the later rounds (4-7). But their early rounds (1-3) have been pretty bad. HC of the Texans, Gary Kubiak makes a great point in the News article. You build through the draft. If players the Bills drafted in 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003 are no longer with the team, that is a tremendous waste of opportunity. I used the Texans because they were relevant as a team actually building toward success, a team we are playing today/ this week, and have a similar post season record as we do this decade. The Texans are quietly building towards success, and not spending or investing in other teams waste (Royal, Dockery, Walker), or throwing millions of dollars at holes hoping that they are filled (Oakland, Washington). The value you get out of those high round draft picks, or the lack thereof, truly speaks of the success of an organization or failure for both the immediate and future seasons of a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 As much as I love the chess boxer picture, it is clear that the Texans have gotten more out of their 1st round draft picks for the past 10 years than have the Bills. The Bills, as pointed out by an excellent poster, does complete a more successful draft in the later rounds (4-7). But their early rounds (1-3) have been pretty bad. HC of the Texans, Gary Kubiak makes a great point in the News article. You build through the draft. If players the Bills drafted in 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2003 are no longer with the team, that is a tremendous waste of opportunity. I used the Texans because they were relevant as a team actually building toward success, a team we are playing today/ this week, and have a similar post season record as we do this decade. The Texans are quietly building towards success, and not spending or investing in other teams waste (Royal, Dockery, Walker), or throwing millions of dollars at holes hoping that they are filled (Oakland, Washington). The value you get out of those high round draft picks, or the lack thereof, truly speaks of the success of an organization or failure for both the immediate and future seasons of a club. I understand why you used the Texans as an example, but given their similar record to the Bills over the past several years I still have to judge it premature to talk about them as a team doing it right. If they make good picks in the early rounds of the draft, but continue to end up with mediocre records, how is that any better than what the Bills are doing? Now, if they can manage a split with Indy this year and put together a good enough run to make the playoffs, then I'll concede it. But the Texans have been a team on the brink of success for the past several years, and if they don't get over the hump soon I question whether they ever will. Don't mistake me for someone who's happy with the FO - and I don't even disagree with the larger point you're making. The Bills' busts in the early rounds are going to continue to hurt them. It's just that I think the Texans are a poor counterexample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 He's our defensive "JP Losman" pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've watched them here and there as they've gotten off to a 4-3 start. Every year I hear that this is going to be the year the Texans take the next step, and yet here they are again, barely above .500. So forgive me if I wait to hail their drafting until they've shown that they actually have a decent team. ask yourself this, would you trade the Bills roster for theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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