Coach55 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Good thing we didn't go after this guy in the offseason (I know a lot of people discussed)... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ahuv...p&type=lgns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Good thing we didn't go after this guy in the offseason (I know a lot of people discussed)... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ahuv...p&type=lgns Too bad. A wonderful player. Not sure I agree with Mora though. O. Pace is maybe even better (and can still play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Too bad. A wonderful player. Not sure I agree with Mora though. O. Pace is maybe even better (and can still play). You should probably watch Over-and-done-o's "play" before making such statement. Pace is cooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I bet if we send a late pick to Seattle we can get the rights to Jones. He'd be better than what we already have for next year. Plus we can get Runyan and have the most experienced tackles in the league..../sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Too bad. A wonderful player. Not sure I agree with Mora though. O. Pace is maybe even better (and can still play). A lot of experts (Football Prospectus/Outsiders and the like) view Walter Jones as the best LT ever. Pace and Ogden rank in just before him but all 3 all should be first ballot Hall of Fame inductees (I say should be because the fact that Cris Carter isn't in just boggles the mind don't get how they do the voting sometimes). Joe Jacoby made the mold for the model LT (Fast, agile, Tall, Long arms, low center of gravity, and over 300 pounds) and Walter Jones was sort of the personification of that mold. Now I am not an expert on LT play but in both what people saw and what the metrics say Jones was just a bit better then Pace and there might not be anyone in a long time that comes close to what either were able to do in their primes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 A lot of experts (Football Prospectus/Outsiders and the like) view Walter Jones as the best LT ever. Pace and Ogden rank in just before him but all 3 all should be first ballot Hall of Fame inductees (I say should be because the fact that Cris Carter isn't in just boggles the mind don't get how they do the voting sometimes). I'm guessing many of these experts work for ESPN? You know, the ones who forgot 'bout guys like Roosevelt Brown, Art Shell, Ron Yary, Jackie Slater, and some guy named Anthony Munoz. While I like Ogden, Pace, and Jones, to say that those 3 are the best ever is to ignore all of the ones I mentioned, which is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand J Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm guessing many of these experts work for ESPN? You know, the ones who forgot 'bout guys like Roosevelt Brown, Art Shell, Ron Yary, Jackie Slater, and some guy named Anthony Munoz. While I like Ogden, Pace, and Jones, to say that those 3 are the best ever is to ignore all of the ones I mentioned, which is absurd. Tony Boselli was also a hall of fame talent (when healthy)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I bet if we send a late pick to Seattle we can get the rights to Jones. He'd be better than what we already have for next year. Plus we can get Runyan and have the most experienced tackles in the league..../sarcasm OK, I see the sarcasm bit but being serious on this point for a moment. It's important to realize that there is a difference between guys that are just plain injured and cannot play and a player that wants too much money to be on a team. Jones is on IR because he's injured. Runyan may be done because of his knee injury or because he won't take a bargain basement deal at his age, etc. He has been cleared by the doctors to play and he says he is good to go and I've heard some teams say he "looked good" when they brought him in for a try out. Of course, they may be talking through their hats and he looked like crap after the injury layoff. Things for sure on Runyan include that the people in the know and who make these decisions aren't saying and have no motivation to speak with total candor, and that Jamon Meredith's contract is far less than the bare minimum any team would have to pay Runyan. At least the Bills brought Runyan in for a try out. As another example of money being a deterrent, Derrick Brooks is semi-retired right now because of money. I've heard it from his own lips that he believes he can still play at a high level and would be willing to come back, but he is not willing to take a "backup's contract". As a result, extremely interested teams like the Bears have gone with other cheaper players and are just hopeful they can step up and do well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 You should probably watch Over-and-done-o's "play" before making such statement. Pace is cooked. I have seen all or part of every Bears games this year. Like I said Pace is still playing and reasonably well IMO. Jones, Pace and possibly J. Ogden are the three current HOF candidates for the position. Jones and Pace are first ballot locks. The comment was really with espect to Mora's claim that Jones was the standard. I'm saying he is not necessarily above the other two, especially O. Pace, even though I can understand why Mora would say that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 OK, I see the sarcasm bit but being serious on this point for a moment. It's important to realize that there is a difference between guys that are just plain injured and cannot play and a player that wants too much money to be on a team. Jones is on IR because he's injured. Runyan may be done because of his knee injury or because he won't take a bargain basement deal at his age, etc. He has been cleared by the doctors to play and he says he is good to go and I've heard some teams say he "looked good" when they brought him in for a try out. Of course, they may be talking through their hats and he looked like crap after the injury layoff. Things for sure on Runyan include that the people in the know and who make these decisions aren't saying and have no motivation to speak with total candor, and that Jamon Meredith's contract is far less than the bare minimum any team would have to pay Runyan. At least the Bills brought Runyan in for a try out. As another example of money being a deterrent, Derrick Brooks is semi-retired right now because of money. I've heard it from his own lips that he believes he can still play at a high level and would be willing to come back, but he is not willing to take a "backup's contract". As a result, extremely interested teams like the Bears have gone with other cheaper players and are just hopeful they can step up and do well enough. The reason why we picked Jamon Meredith over guys like Runyan is simple, Meredith has a much greater upside than Runyan does. He is younger, he is athletic, he performed well in college, he is intelligent, so the team decided to go this route, as opposed to picking up a player that has declined markedly, often injured and not probably not much better than our other options at this stage anyway. You refuse to be open to the possibility of the Bills looking to make a long term decision, but would rather just chalk it up to being cheap. Is it possible that we made a decision soley based on the financial aspect? Yes, but not likely. We most likely made our decision based on Merediths possible upside, Runyans uncertainty of being able to effectively deliver and for financial reasons. This is what a rational and reasonably objective person would conclude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The reason why we picked Jamon Meredith over guys like Runyan is simple, Meredith has a much greater upside than Runyan does. He is younger, he is athletic, he performed well in college, he is intelligent, so the team decided to go this route, as opposed to picking up a player that has declined markedly, often injured and not probably not much better than our other options at this stage anyway. You refuse to be open to the possibility of the Bills looking to make a long term decision, but would rather just chalk it up to being cheap. Is it possible that we made a decision soley based on the financial aspect? Yes, but not likely. We most likely made our decision based on Merediths possible upside, Runyans uncertainty of being able to effectively deliver and for financial reasons. This is what a rational and reasonably objective person would conclude. Meredith is doing better than Bell and Handgartner actually. He was a solid pick up. Not sure why the pack left him exposed on their PS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 The reason why we picked Jamon Meredith over guys like Runyan is simple, Meredith has a much greater upside than Runyan does. He is younger, he is athletic, he performed well in college, he is intelligent, so the team decided to go this route, as opposed to picking up a player that has declined markedly, often injured and not probably not much better than our other options at this stage anyway. You refuse to be open to the possibility of the Bills looking to make a long term decision, but would rather just chalk it up to being cheap. Is it possible that we made a decision soley based on the financial aspect? Yes, but not likely. We most likely made our decision based on Merediths possible upside, Runyans uncertainty of being able to effectively deliver and for financial reasons. This is what a rational and reasonably objective person would conclude. Potential is for losers. Runyan is an experienced and accomplished pro who could, if he can still play, help out the green as grass kids the Bills have on their line. Having someone show you the ropes is not a bad thing. Most people understand this simple fact. Only a total nitwit would dismiss the obvious and claim that the Bills don't factor in the financial aspects of their decisions very heavily. It is written all over move after move. Since you were in the room, you obviously know Overdorf was one of the principle people involved in deciding to go after Meredith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Rob Johnson Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Good thing we didn't go after this guy in the offseason (I know a lot of people discussed)... http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ahuv...p&type=lgns Is this Ed Kilgour? Do you mean Levi Jones? When was Walter Jones available that anyone would have discussed getting him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Potential is for losers. Runyan is an experienced and accomplished pro who could, if he can still play, help out the green as grass kids the Bills have on their line. Having someone show you the ropes is not a bad thing. Most people understand this simple fact. Only a total nitwit would dismiss the obvious and claim that the Bills don't factor in the financial aspects of their decisions very heavily. It is written all over move after move. Since you were in the room, you obviously know Overdorf was one of the principle people involved in deciding to go after Meredith. ah yes, you gotta love people who consistently make absolute statements. ooooh, the smoking gun!! Overdorf was involved in the decision making. Another absolute assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Walter Jones will probably be in physical pain for the rest of his life. Someone's gotta tell him to quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm guessing many of these experts work for ESPN? You know, the ones who forgot 'bout guys like Roosevelt Brown, Art Shell, Ron Yary, Jackie Slater, and some guy named Anthony Munoz. While I like Ogden, Pace, and Jones, to say that those 3 are the best ever is to ignore all of the ones I mentioned, which is absurd. I was talking in the modern game post 1980's when LT's became so important thanks to the pass happy nature of the league and guys like Bruce, Reggie White, and a guy named LT were rushing the blindsides of QB's. And my statement was hyperbolic but a better way to state it is Jones is the best of all time while Pace and Ogden where not far behind and its going to be hard to find a LT better than Walter Jones in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Tony Boselli was also a hall of fame talent (when healthy)... I think Boselli was better than all 3 (Jones, Pace and Ogden) when healthy. I never saw another LT absolutely stone Bruce Smith cold, one-on-one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCal Aaron Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Richmond Webb was pretty good at stoning Bruce and ranks with the others mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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