manbeast Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'll be willing to bet the Patriots game plan was left very close to the way Turk Shonert drew it up so giving AVP credit for Turks work doesn't make much sense. Firing Shonert for someone with even less experience? Promoted from a failing offense to begin with? A week before the season starts? It was a mistake in my opinion even though Turk Shonert never should have been promoted from within himself, but thats the kind of things that happen when you don't have an experienced and football savvy GM running the show. Who would you take Miamis head coach or ours Ours has more experience I know we have sucked for along time but don't forget the injuries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Considering how well the Bills played in the Monday night opener against the Patriots and the close proximity to when Turk Shonert was released I'm inclined to believe the offense has regressed since his departure and what little success we did have at the beginning of the season was thanks in part to Turk Shonert. T.O. made it painfully obvious on Wed. interview that the Buffalo Bills offense lacks the proper amount of sophistication to be successful in the NFL. When asked why Dallas seemed to be able to get him the ball without a hitch yet Buffalo was unable , T.O.'s reply indicated the Dallas Cowboy's play schemes allowed T.O. to get open and the Buffalo Bill's offense simply was not capable of producing the same results. In my opinion the Buffalo Bills are worse off without Turk Shonert at the OC position and this is another HC blunder we are suffering through because our HC is a glorified DB coach without a clue. I like DJ and its easy to see why the players like him, but I would like him allot more if he was not the head coach of the Buffalo Bills. My observations are not meant to reflect on AVP's game planning or play calling capabilities. What? Do you ever make sense? Your observations are directly about the OC and the effect on the offense yet you write a disclaimer at the bottom to say its not a reflection on how AVP has done? How is that even possible? So you are saying we REGRESSED and were only good in the NE game (when we were not that good with only 17 offensive points, no WR involvement, and we lost) because it was close to when Turk was fired so we still had some "Turk" left in the offense. If that is true, how in the world does that not reflect on AVP? Your entire post is a direct slap at AVP and you know it, but rather than once again flip flop and contradict all your claims to AVP's greatness (even calling for him to be HC) you just write a disclaimer...LMAO (seiously, I literally laughed out loud) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'll be willing to bet the Patriots game plan was left very close to the way Turk Shonert drew it up so giving AVP credit for Turks work doesn't make much sense. Firing Shonert for someone with even less experience? Promoted from a failing offense to begin with? A week before the season starts? It was a mistake in my opinion even though Turk Shonert never should have been promoted from within himself, but thats the kind of things that happen when you don't have an experienced and football savvy GM running the show. WHAT? You argued over an over again how AVP called the "perfect" game and called everyone retards if they didnt agree with you, I mean I can show you the threads. All you did was ball wash AVP for days after that game, calling him the next great OC, our future HC, the missing piece for Trent, etc etc all off that one game. Now you are taking that credit away from AVP and giving it to Turk? OMG...you cant be serious...you are too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 WHAT? You argued over an over again how AVP called the "perfect" game and called everyone retards if they didnt agree with you, I mean I can show you the threads. All you did was ball wash AVP for days after that game, calling him the next great OC, our future HC, the missing piece for Trent, etc etc all off that one game. Now you are taking that credit away from AVP and giving it to Turk? OMG...you cant be serious...you are too much... awww little baby , I'm sorry, don't cry... http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...p;#entry1540893 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 awww little baby , I'm sorry, don't cry... http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...p;#entry1540893 LMAO...nothing in that thread helps your argument, especially in one just like it you said firing Turk was the right move and that AVP is going to shock us all... So let me help you refresh your memory dumbass with some comments of many you made about the actual game played that Monday that you are now trying to take the credit from AVP: The loss leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but AVP is the man!!! No doubt, going into the Patriots house and almost taking them down was huge for our football team. AVP is going to make a brilliant OC and play caller. Good call DJ There are countless others, but to save space I wont post them all...but keep trying to act like you werent all over AVP's jock after the game. I mean you literally were all over AVP for that Monday night game and even before the game began. Now, because you want to flip flop you completely take all the credit away from him for that game and said our game plan was good because it was Turks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 LMAO...nothing in that thread helps your argument, especially in one just like it you said firing Turk was the right move and that AVP is going to shock us all... So let me help you refresh your memory dumbass with some comments of many you made about the actual game played that Monday that you are now trying to take the credit from AVP: There are countless others, but to save space I wont post them all...but keep trying to act like you werent all over AVP's jock after the game. I mean you literally were all over AVP for that Monday night game and even before the game began. Now, because you want to flip flop you completely take all the credit away from him for that game and said our game plan was good because it was Turks? Like I say I'm a flip flopping MO FO, so cry, cry ,cry, cry, cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I don't think Turk offered us a whole lot. His offenses have been wildly inconsistent in the past, or have we forgotten the 3 games towards the end of last year where we scored 3,3, and 0. This year I believe that our injuries and youth up front have played a big role in our offensive ineptitude, and Trent's lack of productivity (a small part, I have never thought that Trent was a great QB). In the NE game we had Bell and Butler as our bookends where they had practiced all offseason. Jackson ran all over NE that game. After Bell got hurt and Butler was lost for the season the line was a shambles. We also lost our starting tight end that was a go-to guy for Trent and a good blocker, and then Shawn Nelson went down.... Our defense also lost a lot of starters so when other teams started scoring early on us, their defenses knew Trentative would not be able to throw the ball faster than their blitzers could blow by our rookie and scrub linemen filling in. I think that Meredith is the best right tackle we have fielded since Butler went down and that is a relief. Edwards is not a QB that can pick up a team by being creative on the run. There was nothing he could do on the sack he took that caused his injury, but there have been plenty of times where he escapes the pocket and just does not create anything. Elite QBs are the ones that can take a broken play and still be dangerous. Let's face it, every QB faces pressure, breakdowns in protection, etc... not all of them fold like TE seems to do. It will be interesting to see what Fitz is able to do with a full week of practice with the starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Turk got boned but he wasn't very good anyways. And no matter who the OC is that can't physically make Trent threw the ball down the field. It will be interesting to see what Fitz does in a full start. It will allow us to have a better idea who was the real problem with the offense. How will playing a second string quarterback give us a better idea who was the real problem? Are you insinuating that if we win and Fitz plays well, TE was the problem? Are youy saying if he plays poorly it's the coaching staff? The Offensive line? Maybe the first 6 games have given us the answer. They blew up the offensive line and expected rookies to perforn as seasoned veterans. They fired the OC days before the season opener. Jauron could have made an OC change months before if he didn't agree with his philosophy. Why didn't he? The problem has been evident for the last 10 years....this organization, starting with the owner on down, makes decisions that have consistently turned out bad. To say that by starting Fitz we can now see what the real problem is...is laughable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'll be willing to bet the Patriots game plan was left very close to the way Turk Shonert drew it up so giving AVP credit for Turks work doesn't make much sense. Firing Shonert for someone with even less experience? Promoted from a failing offense to begin with? A week before the season starts? It was a mistake in my opinion even though Turk Shonert never should have been promoted from within himself, but that's the kind of things that happen when you don't have an experienced and football savvy GM running the show. I'd be willing to bet that the game plan was installed the week previous to the game and Schonert had no part of it, besides he didn't call the plays, AVP did. Actually AVP had experience calling plays in NFL Europe and did a pretty decent job. Before you start blaming everything on Trent Edwards or AVP, take a long hard look at the Bills offensive line. The are the worst line in the NFL. The two starting tackles wouldn't make it on to most teams rosters and those two were injured for weeks. The Bills took an OT from the Packers practice squad and had him starting. The Bill currently have two scrubs at tackle, two rookies at guard and a backup center from another team, is it any wonder the offense is not as good as last season, even with TO. Roscoe Parrish is finally getting benched for Steve Johnson, should have happened weeks ago. Once James Hardy gets more playing time I think you will see Josh Reed take a spot next to Parrish on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'd be willing to bet that the game plan was installed the week previous to the game and Schonert had no part of it, besides he didn't call the plays, AVP did. Actually AVP had experience calling plays in NFL Europe and did a pretty decent job. Before you start blaming everything on Trent Edwards or AVP, take a long hard look at the Bills offensive line. The are the worst line in the NFL. The two starting tackles wouldn't make it on to most teams rosters and those two were injured for weeks. The Bills took an OT from the Packers practice squad and had him starting. The Bill currently have two scrubs at tackle, two rookies at guard and a backup center from another team, is it any wonder the offense is not as good as last season, even with TO. Roscoe Parrish is finally getting benched for Steve Johnson, should have happened weeks ago. Once James Hardy gets more playing time I think you will see Josh Reed take a spot next to Parrish on the bench. Rabbit, most of this post makes perfect sense ( except the part about the game plan because the Pats game plan was worked on for a long time in my opinion ) You may remember a comment by Trent Edwards saying they had put all their eggs in one basket with the Patriots and it was tough to come up short. (or along them lines) The comment alone should tell you what went into the Pats game plan and Turk Shonert was a big part of that game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 AVP had a very good opening 2 weeks but since then has not had success (You can blame it on him, having TS offense already installed or the players just not executing well). We will see how he does the rest of the way but I have a feeling that the Bills are not going to be very prolific on offense and its a combination of AVP, DJ, the players, and when they fired TS. I like the play calling from AVP more than TS but it hasn't been that much better in my eyes. But at least there stands to be improvement from AVP once he gets more time to fully implement his system hopefully odds are that it isn't going to happen but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 AVP had a very good opening 2 weeks but since then has not had success (You can blame it on him, having TS offense already installed or the players just not executing well). We will see how he does the rest of the way but I have a feeling that the Bills are not going to be very prolific on offense and its a combination of AVP, DJ, the players, and when they fired TS. I like the play calling from AVP more than TS but it hasn't been that much better in my eyes. But at least there stands to be improvement from AVP once he gets more time to fully implement his system hopefully odds are that it isn't going to happen but you never know. I think AVP's offense can get better over time if DJ will allow it to happen. Shutting down the no huddle was a big step in the right direction in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'd be willing to bet that the game plan was installed the week previous to the game and Schonert had no part of it, besides he didn't call the plays, AVP did. Actually AVP had experience calling plays in NFL Europe and did a pretty decent job. Before you start blaming everything on Trent Edwards or AVP, take a long hard look at the Bills offensive line. The are the worst line in the NFL. The two starting tackles wouldn't make it on to most teams rosters and those two were injured for weeks. The Bills took an OT from the Packers practice squad and had him starting. The Bill currently have two scrubs at tackle, two rookies at guard and a backup center from another team, is it any wonder the offense is not as good as last season, even with TO. Roscoe Parrish is finally getting benched for Steve Johnson, should have happened weeks ago. Once James Hardy gets more playing time I think you will see Josh Reed take a spot next to Parrish on the bench. Butler being out also hurt this offensive line which played well in the first two games. Butler was at least playing at a above average level at RT before he went down (Odds are he would have delivered average play but getting average play at RT is better then what we have now). With Butler down the level of play at RT dropped dramatically (Although that guy from the packers did a better job than Scott last week). Point being we went into a win now season with a developmental O-line. Now when you take away the one returning starter who was playing pretty well that line gets even more developmental because you replace him with another rookie. Now I hope Bell can develop as this season goes on and show improvement (Not saying he has to play at a pro bowl level but cut down on the penalties and play at a starting level) so this way we can spend a first round pick on a QB or impact defensive player. The line has potential but right now we are developing an O-line at the expense of the rest of the offense. And there is nothing AVP could do about that at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Rabbit, most of this post makes perfect sense ( except the part about the game plan because the Pats game plan was worked on for a long time in my opinion ) You may remember a comment by Trent Edwards saying they had put all their eggs in one basket with the Patriots and it was tough to come up short. (or along them lines) The comment alone should tell you what went into the Pats game plan and Turk Shonert was a big part of that game plan. Define game plan? They study film and look at the opponents tendencies to decide which plays should work and which won't work, I'd imagine they can study all off season for that home opener. So yea, Schonert might have had some influence into the Bills game plan against the Patriots, but we don't really know how much input he had, if any. Wasn't he fired two weeks previous to the opener? Like I stated earlier, AVP called that game and Schonert had no part in the play calling. My take is the offense is better off without Schonert, that guy should have been shot for some of his play calls last season, dunno why he wasn't fired then. The play calls in that Jets game, 49ers game and all season long he had Edwards in shotgun, he didn't start using play action passing until the Cleveland game. I did backflips when Jauron fired that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Philster Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 AVP, getting thrust into the coordinator role 10 days before the season started, didn't have time to make a lot of changes to the playbook...he's working with what Schonert left him. As far as Schonert, he had a horrible track record as a QB coach so I was never sold on him becoming the offensive coordinator in the 1st place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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