Guest dog14787 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Considering how well the Bills played in the Monday night opener against the Patriots and the close proximity to when Turk Shonert was released I'm inclined to believe the offense has regressed since his departure and what little success we did have at the beginning of the season was thanks in part to Turk Shonert. T.O. made it painfully obvious on Wed. interview that the Buffalo Bills offense lacks the proper amount of sophistication to be successful in the NFL. When asked why Dallas seemed to be able to get him the ball without a hitch yet Buffalo was unable , T.O.'s reply indicated the Dallas Cowboy's play schemes allowed T.O. to get open and the Buffalo Bill's offense simply was not capable of producing the same results. In my opinion the Buffalo Bills are worse off without Turk Shonert at the OC position and this is another HC blunder we are suffering through because our HC is a glorified DB coach without a clue. I like DJ and its easy to see why the players like him, but I would like him allot more if he was not the head coach of the Buffalo Bills. My observations are not meant to reflect on AVP's game planning or play calling capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I raised a similar point in response to another thread. There's no way the offense would look any worse under Turk that's for sure. I don't think anyone would disagree with the fact that are offense while not good looked a whole lot better in 2008. Receiver and Tight ends were set in motion and Edwards, believe it or not, was throwing the 10-20 yard passes across the middle. This year it's like Edwards doesn't even look to attack the middle of the field. Something has happened, and I think the Bills have realized their starting QB isn't really a "starting" QB so they have dumbed down the offense to a point of horror (from a fans standpoint). I actually don't have that much faith in Fitz, but I do think he will make our offense at least marginally better because he will throw the middle slants and the inside throws upfield to the TE's that Trent refused to look for. He also carries out the play action fake way better than Edwards and hopefully our coaching staff realizes this and runs them when the opportunities present themselves. At the very least Fitz will keep defenses guessing run or pass which will open up the run and pass game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Considering how well the Bills played in the Monday night opener against the Patriots and the close proximity to when Turk Shonert was released I'm inclined to believe the offense has regressed since his departure and what little success we did have at the beginning of the season was thanks in part to Turk Shonert. T.O. made it painfully obvious on Wed. interview that the Buffalo Bills offense lacks the proper amount of sophistication to be successful in the NFL. When asked why Dallas seemed to be able to get him the ball without a hitch yet Buffalo was unable , T.O.'s reply indicated the Dallas Cowboy's play schemes allowed T.O. to get open and the Buffalo Bill's offense simply was not capable of producing the same results. In my opinion the Buffalo Bills are worse off without Turk Shonert at the OC position and this is another HC blunder we are suffering over because our HC is a glorified DB coach without a clue. I like DJ and its easy to see why the players like him, but I would like him allot more if he was not the head coach of the Buffalo Bills. My observations are not meant to reflect on AVP's game planning or play calling capabilities. It really made no sense to fire TS so close to the start of the season. Because AVP is left with TS's alignments, terminology, and plays. So, AVP's hands are tied running an offense, he may not even like, but it's too late to implement anything new. It's just another in a long line of mind boggling Bills moves. You had the whole off-season to cut ties with TS, you knew what he brought to the table. So now if DJ is fired, there goes AVP. Who may be a very good OC, but we'll never know. I think I've replied to similar posts on this topic about 80 times and it's still a head scratcher.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 We'll have a better idea where the problem(s) lie once we see Fitz, who had a full week to prepare and practice, start. And the offense should get plenty of chances because Delhomme is a turnover machine. If I were Fewell, I'd stack the box every play and force Delhomme to beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Turk got boned but he wasn't very good anyways. And no matter who the OC is that can't physically make Trent threw the ball down the field. It will be interesting to see what Fitz does in a full start. It will allow us to have a better idea who was the real problem with the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Gun Special Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Considering how well the Bills played in the Monday night opener against the Patriots and the close proximity to when Turk Shonert was released I'm inclined to believe the offense has regressed since his departure and what little success we did have at the beginning of the season was thanks in part to Turk Shonert. T.O. made it painfully obvious on Wed. interview that the Buffalo Bills offense lacks the proper amount of sophistication to be successful in the NFL. When asked why Dallas seemed to be able to get him the ball without a hitch yet Buffalo was unable , T.O.'s reply indicated the Dallas Cowboy's play schemes allowed T.O. to get open and the Buffalo Bill's offense simply was not capable of producing the same results. In my opinion the Buffalo Bills are worse off without Turk Shonert at the OC position and this is another HC blunder we are suffering through because our HC is a glorified DB coach without a clue. I like DJ and its easy to see why the players like him, but I would like him allot more if he was not the head coach of the Buffalo Bills. My observations are not meant to reflect on AVP's game planning or play calling capabilities. Yea but it really is most likely other teams getting film on the Bills. THeres been a few years the bills come flying out of the gate....when no one has film.... only to suck later on. Honestly i think TE is too gun shy and not taking any chances. I watch other games and see QBs throwing into the tiniest windows.....something TE never does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 J.H.C. on a popsicle stick. We basically have four rookies on the offensive line. But yeah, I know, that's just "an excuse" for AVP, Trent, TO, etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.fishopolis Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 For anyone who had suspicions Turk Shonert was used as a scapegoat when DJ dialed back the offense and canned Shonert, T.O. confirms as much and as a result we have one of the easiest offenses in the NFL to defend against. Was curious about this, so I checked out the stats. The offense is slightly less effective under AVP than it was under TS, over the last 6 games each have called. last 6 games of 08: 302 yards/game, 19 1st downs/game, 8 turnovers first 6 games of 09: 291 yards/game, 16 1st downs/game, 13 turnovers to me the big difference seems turnovers, and most of that difference comes from special teams and not offense.... if the bills had the ball for 5 more possessions, they very well might have gotten 11 more yards a game (though that is far from certain, I have watched this team) another view, by yards per attempt: last 6 games of 08: 5.2 yards per pass attempt, 4.9 yards per rushing attempt first 6 games of 09: 5.1 yards per pass attempt, 4.2 yards per rushing attempt At least at this level, seems a bit much to blame "dialing back the offense". The offense sucked last year, it sucks this year. What's to dial back? We've run a little less effectively, passed about the same, and sucked about equally. source: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2009.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2008.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Was curious about this, so I checked out the stats. The offense is slightly less effective under AVP than it was under TS, over the last 6 games each have called. last 6 games of 08: 302 yards/game, 19 1st downs/game, 8 turnovers first 6 games of 09: 291 yards/game, 16 1st downs/game, 13 turnovers to me the big difference seems turnovers, and most of that difference comes from special teams and not offense.... if the bills had the ball for 5 more possessions, they very well might have gotten 11 more yards a game (though that is far from certain, I have watched this team) another view, by yards per attempt: last 6 games of 08: 5.2 yards per pass attempt, 4.9 yards per rushing attempt first 6 games of 09: 5.1 yards per pass attempt, 4.2 yards per rushing attempt At least at this level, seems a bit much to blame "dialing back the offense". The offense sucked last year, it sucks this year. What's to dial back? We've run a little less effectively, passed about the same, and sucked about equally. source: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2009.htm http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2008.htm lol, I'm not sure how you made any sense out of the post you were replying to, my bad. Turk Shonert and Dick Jauron were at odds at the beginning of the season because DJ wanted the offensive playbook reduced and was supposedly one of the main reasons DJ thought the offense was struggling. I agree, dialing the offense back probably didn't show any results one way or the other when you are already the worse offense in the league, but the point is we needed to improve not stay the same or regress which in my opinion despite the stats we did regress. Dialing the offense back is why we can't get T.O. the ball the way the Cowboy's were able to last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 For an assistant to get FIRED just before the season starts there has to be some major malfunction and communication problems between the assistant and head coach. I know from listening to Cris Collingsworth talk about the guy, he had a huge ego... perhaps that got in his way. All I know is AVP called a brilliant game against the Patriots and a decent game against the Jets,he is learning on the job. Let's not forget that the crappy new OT's the Bills started with in week one have been injured for weeks, just got Bell back last week and the line played much better. That Saint's game Edwards was running for his life on every passing play... All I can say is I think it was the right move Jauron made in firing Schonert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 For an assistant to get FIRED just before the season starts there has to be some major malfunction and communication problems between the assistant and head coach. I know from listening to Cris Collingsworth talk about the guy, he had a huge ego... perhaps that got in his way. All I know is AVP called a brilliant game against the Patriots and a decent game against the Jets,he is learning on the job. Let's not forget that the crappy new OT's the Bills started with in week one have been injured for weeks, just got Bell back last week and the line played much better. That Saint's game Edwards was running for his life on every passing play... All I can say is I think it was the right move Jauron made in firing Schonert. I'll be willing to bet the Patriots game plan was left very close to the way Turk Shonert drew it up so giving AVP credit for Turks work doesn't make much sense. Firing Shonert for someone with even less experience? Promoted from a failing offense to begin with? A week before the season starts? It was a mistake in my opinion even though Turk Shonert never should have been promoted from within himself, but thats the kind of things that happen when you don't have an experienced and football savvy GM running the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Turk got boned but he wasn't very good anyways. And no matter who the OC is that can't physically make Trent threw the ball down the field. It will be interesting to see what Fitz does in a full start. It will allow us to have a better idea who was the real problem with the offense. Amen. It would be nice to see the QB throw to TO more than 3 times a game. Fitz might do that.....Edwards sure didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think he sucked...but Edwards sucked too sooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I think he sucked...but Edwards sucked too sooo Fairchild sucked, promote from within, Shonert sucked, promote from within, AVP sucks (not all his fault), and who's next. Yup, Edwards has been sucking along with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonydiamond Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'm not sure if it's gun shy or the inability to put the ball into a tight spot but I watched the Giants-Saints game and those guys were threading needles. There were a few other highlights I saw QBs putting it in tight spaces and thought, "why don't we run those plays!" I was also surprised that this offense does not use motion, is that true? I'm going to watch some highlights... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Considering how well the Bills played in the Monday night opener against the Patriots and the close proximity to when Turk Shonert was released I'm inclined to believe the offense has regressed since his departure and what little success we did have at the beginning of the season was thanks in part to Turk Shonert. or maybe the rest of the league seen what the Bills did that night and gameplanned against it and the Bills offense simply hasnt adjusted or grown since...its not hard to gameplan against an offense when the offense only runs about 5 different plays...the bootleg to the TE coming across behind the line hasnt worked since that first TD yet AVP calls it 2-3 times a week and Edwards will throw the pass knowing its covered and will lose 2-4 yards and lets get something straight, the offense wasnt that great opening night, they couldnt get the ball to Evans or TO in that game either and the only reason they looked decent was bc they were able to run the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDad Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 I'm not sure if it's gun shy or the inability to put the ball into a tight spot but I watched the Giants-Saints game and those guys were threading needles. There were a few other highlights I saw QBs putting it in tight spaces and thought, "why don't we run those plays!"I was also surprised that this offense does not use motion, is that true? I'm going to watch some highlights... Funny, although I will agree there were some really pretty throws in the Giants Saints game, I also saw throws that were close but behind, or over the shoulder, etc. thrown and the WR's went after it and got it. Those QB's aren't waiting for the WR to be completely open, they throw the ball before the WR even makes his break, and then the multi-million dollar receiver goes and gets the damned ball. No sack, big plays, and no checkdown, even with a blitz. What a concept throw the ball and let the receiver do his job!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Turk got boned but he wasn't very good anyways. And no matter who the OC is that can't physically make Trent threw the ball down the field. It will be interesting to see what Fitz does in a full start. It will allow us to have a better idea who was the real problem with the offense. Starting QB has a concussion and the back up goes 10-25 with a TD and a pick. How much more do you need to see to know it is the o-line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Fairchild sucked, promote from within, Shonert sucked, promote from within, AVP sucks (not all his fault), and who's next. Yup, Edwards has been sucking along with them DJ picked all those coaches. Edwards has had the worst coaching in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted October 24, 2009 Share Posted October 24, 2009 Considering how well the Bills played in the Monday night opener against the Patriots and the close proximity to when Turk Shonert was released I'm inclined to believe the offense has regressed since his departure and what little success we did have at the beginning of the season was thanks in part to Turk Shonert. T.O. made it painfully obvious on Wed. interview that the Buffalo Bills offense lacks the proper amount of sophistication to be successful in the NFL. When asked why Dallas seemed to be able to get him the ball without a hitch yet Buffalo was unable , T.O.'s reply indicated the Dallas Cowboy's play schemes allowed T.O. to get open and the Buffalo Bill's offense simply was not capable of producing the same results. In my opinion the Buffalo Bills are worse off without Turk Shonert at the OC position and this is another HC blunder we are suffering through because our HC is a glorified DB coach without a clue. I like DJ and its easy to see why the players like him, but I would like him allot more if he was not the head coach of the Buffalo Bills. My observations are not meant to reflect on AVP's game planning or play calling capabilities. INJURIES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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