Sisyphean Bills Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Could be, but really all I am saying is he was put in a tough position. I don't think anyone can truly blame AVP at this point, it's not his offensive design. Why blame Turk? This is Dick Jauron's offense. How many OCs and QBs does it take for people to start seeing that the one commonality in all these crappy offenses is no one other than Dick Jauron? Jauron offenses as ranked by points scored: 26th, 28th, 11th, 27th, 24th, 23rd, 30th, 23rd, and 25th*. 1 year out of 8+ has a Dick Jauron coached team been in the upper 50% of NFL teams (the only year he had a winning record or coached his team to the playoffs and got blown out at home).
dave mcbride Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 AVP is a laughing stock? Really? He is running someone else's offense. If this was AVP offensive scheme that he designed, then you can put the blame on AVP. But he took over after everything was in place and it was too late to change. I really don't understand your comment? I should have said "right now." That's because he is, but circumstances outside his control are partly responsible. I certainly think he has the capability to recover and become a good OC, but the question is whether other teams will think so once he's let go along with everyone else after this season. I hope for his sake that other coaches will factor in his very evident inexperience and the bad situation in Buffalo. It's worth noting that none of Jauron's other OCs have gotten a sniff from teams at the highest level (the NFL) after they left the Bears/Bills.
BillsVet Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Why blame Turk? This is Dick Jauron's offense. How many OCs and QBs does it take for people to start seeing that the one commonality in all these crappy offenses is no one other than Dick Jauron? Jauron offenses as ranked by points scored: 26th, 28th, 11th, 27th, 24th, 23rd, 30th, 23rd, and 25th*. 1 year out of 8+ has a Dick Jauron coached team been in the upper 50% of NFL teams (the only year he had a winning record or coached his team to the playoffs and got blown out at home). RW can either eat the contract after the season he gave DJ or keep him and risk more fan animosity than what's already present at home games. Neither one is a good option for RW, but there can be no more conclusive evidence after this season that DJ is one of the worst coaches this decade and probably the last quarter century. I hope, but am not confident that RW knows he screwed up big time by re-signing a coach no one else wanted. It's an even bigger pipe dream to believe he'll cede some personnel control over to people trained to handle this sort of thing after realizing this. 90 year old men do not make great decisions, and RW's the poster child for it. The fact RW thought he could cover up this unpopular decision with TO shows how clueless the front office remains. Nothing less than a total restructuring will save this franchise.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 RW can either eat the contract after the season he gave DJ or keep him and risk more fan animosity than what's already present at home games. Neither one is a good option for RW, but there can be no more conclusive evidence after this season that DJ is one of the worst coaches this decade and probably the last quarter century. I hope, but am not confident that RW knows he screwed up big time by re-signing a coach no one else wanted. It's an even bigger pipe dream to believe he'll cede some personnel control over to people trained to handle this sort of thing after realizing this. 90 year old men do not make great decisions, and RW's the poster child for it. The fact RW thought he could cover up this unpopular decision with TO shows how clueless the front office remains. Nothing less than a total restructuring will save this franchise. The ironic part of that list is that the 2 offenses tied for 2nd on the list were - The one QB'd by JP Losman and coordinated by Steve Fairchild - The one QB'd by Trent Edwards and coordinated by rookie OC Turk Schonert All four of those guys are vilified by posters here, yet they are the amongst the success stories for Dick Jauron offenses.
Alphadawg7 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Could be, but really all I am saying is he was put in a tough position. I don't think anyone can truly blame AVP at this point, it's not his offensive design. Tough position yes...but seriously, his literal lack of making any offensive adjustments is inexcusable. We have a young OL that has had its struggles and a QB who bails on the plays the first sign of pressure and checks down failing to get our WR's invovled...so how do you fix that? Slants, quick routes, crossing routes, 3 step drops and fire, etc, etc. (see Wes Welker to see how a team has mastered these routes). So, if our O Line cant hold the D out long enough for Trent to be comfortable, then you need to adapt. And lets be honest, Trent doesnt seem to understand how to slide in the pocket and create more time for routes to develop either, so that really compounds the problem. Yet another reason AVP has to adjust and find new ways to get our WR's the ball. We literally have the most predictable offense in the NFL by a mile, and its a joke. We run the same sets and the same plays. No 4 to 5 WR sets, rarely see Nelson on the field, no spreads, no ML and FJ together in the backfield, etc, etc.
benderbender Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 We needed an OL improvement and got a 1 year WR. Thats like needing a new roof and renting a car.
GaryPinC Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Why blame Turk? This is Dick Jauron's offense. How many OCs and QBs does it take for people to start seeing that the one commonality in all these crappy offenses is no one other than Dick Jauron? Jauron offenses as ranked by points scored: 26th, 28th, 11th, 27th, 24th, 23rd, 30th, 23rd, and 25th*. 1 year out of 8+ has a Dick Jauron coached team been in the upper 50% of NFL teams (the only year he had a winning record or coached his team to the playoffs and got blown out at home). Amen. The TO article in the Buffalo News: http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/836566.html had this tidbit also: "The Bills do not use motion in their offense, as dictated by coach Dick Jauron. So Owens does not move pre-snap. He normally lines up as the flanker opposite Lee Evans. However, the Bills have lined Owens up as the slot receiver on occasion. That's the only moving around he does. Evans never moves from his "X" receiver spot." Not sure how the reporter knows this, but if true is just one more confirmation of DJ's incompetance. My personal opinion is that DJ plays a heavy hand in the structure of the offense and limits the types of plays the OC and QB can call. Especially in critical game situations. Yet the players seem to blame the OC. When Fairchild was on the way out, players like Evans were saying that they thought Schonert had good ideas about playcalling the offense. Same thing about AVP. Why don't some of these reporters look into DJ's role in all this? Now there's a story I'd really like to read.
ricojes Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Why blame Turk? This is Dick Jauron's offense. How many OCs and QBs does it take for people to start seeing that the one commonality in all these crappy offenses is no one other than Dick Jauron? Jauron offenses as ranked by points scored: 26th, 28th, 11th, 27th, 24th, 23rd, 30th, 23rd, and 25th*. 1 year out of 8+ has a Dick Jauron coached team been in the upper 50% of NFL teams (the only year he had a winning record or coached his team to the playoffs and got blown out at home). Fair enough, I didn't mean to point the finger at TS alone, my only point was that AVP shouldn't be the laughing stock of the league. He was put in a very difficult position. Some here want AVP to change the offense completely and it's just not possible at this point and time. Plus he has a QB that doesn't throw the ball down the field. How can you game plan with that type of QB? Or make adjustments? Some want 2 RB's in the back field, does any NFL team do this? I know Miami does at times, but that's when they run the wild cat. There is just more to the story than a poor OC. And I actually think the offense will be a little better this week. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills go no huddle with Fitz running the show. He has better pocket awareness, he will find a way to get the ball to our best receivers, and he will audible. Let's see what kind of game AVP calls with a QB that is willing to throw the ball down field. GO BILLS....
BillsVet Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Amen. The TO article in the Buffalo News: http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/836566.htmlhad this tidbit also: "The Bills do not use motion in their offense, as dictated by coach Dick Jauron. So Owens does not move pre-snap. He normally lines up as the flanker opposite Lee Evans. However, the Bills have lined Owens up as the slot receiver on occasion. That's the only moving around he does. Evans never moves from his "X" receiver spot." Not sure how the reporter knows this, but if true is just one more confirmation of DJ's incompetance. My personal opinion is that DJ plays a heavy hand in the structure of the offense and limits the types of plays the OC and QB can call. Especially in critical game situations. Yet the players seem to blame the OC. When Fairchild was on the way out, players like Evans were saying that they thought Schonert had good ideas about playcalling the offense. Same thing about AVP. Why don't some of these reporters look into DJ's role in all this? Now there's a story I'd really like to read. Anyone who watched TO in the latter part of last season saw Dallas use him a lot in motion. He's had an issue (see NYJ game) getting off the line, particularly in press coverage and this mitigated TO's issues. For DJ to dictate that motion is not used speaks to a complete and utter ability to adapt. For a guy with a (EDIT: -21) career difference between wins and losses, it's amazing that he's unwilling to change in the midst of his team going nowhere offensively. Compare that with Sparano last year using the Wildcat, which most "experts" demean, but helped Miami win games. I still laugh when I think about fans who figured DJ had to change his ways because this was a do or die season. Misusing TO, regardless of the guy's age, is another in a long line of examples about why DJ needs to go.
Bill from NYC Posted October 23, 2009 Author Posted October 23, 2009 I still laugh when I think about fans who figured DJ had to change his ways because this was a do or die season. Don't laugh. Appreciate the fact that people are willing to express their views and provide dialogue for people like you and me. I have made wrong predictions/statements on this board. Imo, so have you. I give you credit for one good prediction wrt Byrd. I think I did pretty well too before the draft wrt Levitre, who I continue to liken to Steinbach. Still, we will both make mistakes in the future and perhaps be correct yet again if we continue to post. The ironic thing wrt Jauron was that before he tanked yet another draft by devoting it to small lbs and another truck load of defensive backs, the Bills did manage to grab Wood and Levitre. This really is something to build around. Btw.....here is another prediction: Hangartner will be a fine canter in this football league. He is surrounded by rookies and slugs and looks good from where I sit.
BillsVet Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Don't laugh. Appreciate the fact that people are willing to express their views and provide dialogue for people like you and me. I have made wrong predictions/statements on this board. Imo, so have you. I give you credit for one good prediction wrt Byrd. I think I did pretty well too before the draft wrt Levitre, who I continue to liken to Steinbach. Still, we will both make mistakes in the future and perhaps be correct yet again if we continue to post. The ironic thing wrt Jauron was that before he tanked yet another draft by devoting it to small lbs and another truck load of defensive backs, the Bills did manage to grab Wood and Levitre. This really is something to build around. Btw.....here is another prediction: Hangartner will be a fine canter in this football league. He is surrounded by rookies and slugs and looks good from where I sit. I've sure made my bad predictions on the team, but believing in 2006 that he'd be bad was not one of them. No knowledgeable fan figured Levy/Jauron would succeed with their brand of football. Nearly four years later, they've failed miserably. You can't deny DJ had a lot of say on personnel from 06-08, so this is his team. He was a complete failure, and plenty of fans knew he's fail in 2006. Some people wanted to give him a chance and ignore 5 years in Chicago, but they're nowhere to be found now. I too think the interior 3 OL will be fine, but the tackles are harder to find. They'll need to find two, because I don't think Butler is durable enough to hold up, and Demetrius Bell was a fabrication.
dave mcbride Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 I've sure made my bad predictions on the team, but believing in 2006 that he'd be bad was not one of them. No knowledgeable fan figured Levy/Jauron would succeed with their brand of football. Nearly four years later, they've failed miserably. You can't deny DJ had a lot of say on personnel from 06-08, so this is his team. He was a complete failure, and plenty of fans knew he's fail in 2006. Some people wanted to give him a chance and ignore 5 years in Chicago, but they're nowhere to be found now. I too think the interior 3 OL will be fine, but the tackles are harder to find. They'll need to find two, because I don't think Butler is durable enough to hold up, and Demetrius Bell was a fabrication. You're kinda missing Bill's point -- don't laugh at others for predictions that are ultimately based on hope/optimism. People are fans, after all -- grant them that.
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