John from Riverside Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Granted JP can wait a few weeks, no big deal I guess... But as far as Big-Ben-its or whatever it is, I think you have to make the assumtion that JP is not as good as Big Ben if you don't insert him now...And there is only one way to find out, and that's by playing JP. The Pittsburgh Coaches have done a tremendous job in getting Big Ben ready, maybe our Staff is not up to that challenge, who knows? But I just cannot stand this idea of protecting JP like he's some sort of fragile China Doll...He's a QB, he's been drafted into the NFL, put the Kid out there and see what kind of ability he has when given all the Reps, Game Plan, etc...Does anyone believe there was a single person in the Pittsburgh Organization who felt Ben would be this good, this early? Of coarse not...Maybe the Bills are in for a pleasant surprise like that, maybe not, but there's only one way to find out... The Kids not a Ballarina, he's a QB...If playing hurts his development than I question immediately whether or not he's the QB of the future. I know for certain if you ask JP he'll say he wants to play now. That's the type of QB he is, and I think that type of personality needs to get in the Game, take his lumps like a Man, and learn on the Field not off... B) 118789[/snapback] If JP Losman is not HEALTHY....then all of this is a moot point.... But if he is.....then he should be getting the practice reps....and getting the playing time..... It really is that simple....I want JP to have some experience when he comes in next year....you dont want him to have to get it STARTING next year....that would be a mistake..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 If JP Losman is not HEALTHY....then all of this is a moot point.... But if he is.....then he should be getting the practice reps....and getting the playing time..... It really is that simple....I want JP to have some experience when he comes in next year....you dont want him to have to get it STARTING next year....that would be a mistake..... 118816[/snapback] I think JP confirmed in his Post Game comments that he is healthy now...Even though I think, based on his comments he was a bit surprised the Leg responded as well as it did...Nonetheless, it looks like he's near 100% physically...Time to work on the mental preperation necessary which mean WAY more Reps in Practice...Reps he simply can't get if Drew remains the Starter... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillsRebound Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Yesterday proved he is healthy as he was moving around pretty good. He needs to play but probably needs a couple of games to build up his confidence before he is ready to play every down. But he should get time this Sunday. Screw the 'it sends the veterans the message that we are giving up on the season' excuse. No one has any faith in Bledsoe at this point so I don't think you'd get much negative reaction from the rest of the team if Losman plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Yesterday proved he is healthy as he was moving around pretty good. He needs to play but probably needs a couple of games to build up his confidence before he is ready to play every down. But he should get time this Sunday. Screw the 'it sends the veterans the message that we are giving up on the season' excuse. No one has any faith in Bledsoe at this point so I don't think you'd get much negative reaction from the rest of the team if Losman plays. 118837[/snapback] You'll get negative reaction if he turns the ball over 4 times and costs the team a chance to win. Mularkey should have two lines of thoughts about Losman right now. --He's good enough to gameplan around so that he won't make mistakes --He's going to have to make a bunch of mistakes before he turns things around If it's the first case, start him now. If it's the second, wait a few weeks, and give the team a chance to fight their way back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 You'll get negative reaction if he turns the ball over 4 times and costs the team a chance to win. Mularkey should have two lines of thoughts about Losman right now. --He's good enough to gameplan around so that he won't make mistakes --He's going to have to make a bunch of mistakes before he turns things around If it's the first case, start him now. If it's the second, wait a few weeks, and give the team a chance to fight their way back. 118851[/snapback] I think your assesment is fair... Of coarse you have to feel for MM if Bledsoe is the best option at QB this Team has to fight their way back...Kind of like bringing a rock to a Gun fight... B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I think your assesment is fair... Of coarse you have to feel for MM if Bledsoe is the best option at QB this Team has to fight their way back...Kind of like bringing a rock to a Gun fight... B) 118862[/snapback] Yeah, it really is a lesser of two evils. It's not a question of who can win the game for us, it's who won't cost us the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Yeah, it really is a lesser of two evils. It's not a question of who can win the game for us, it's who won't cost us the game. 118870[/snapback] This is what it's come to... Damn...it really is a sad state of affairs...Especially when your looking for the QB that will not cost you the Game, when in reality you know that same QB may very well do exactly that! Ouch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillsRebound Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 How can you get any worse than what Drew is doing on the road? I'd rather see a young QB making mistakes than a washed-up one that doesn't learn from them and whom you are going nowhere with. If the goal is to win 6 games this year (we can win at home with Drew, but absolutely have no chance on the road), then we should play Drew. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO PLAY DREW UNLESS JP STRUGGLES AND FROM A CONFIDENCE STANDPOINT NEEDS TO GET PULLED. We are never going anywhere with Drew as our QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 READ MY PHOTONS: I DO NOT THINK WE SHOULD START JP IF HE IS NOT READY, Do you disagree? If you do then that's your right, but it is not in the best interest of the Bills. We cab talk about what ready is (though I think it is fairly obvious but this society seems to ask say a lot that it depends on what you mean by is). 1. JP should play when he is physically ready- Last night it was great to see him in the line-up because this is proof that physically he has healed enough to take NFL punishment, but as with any player recovering from an injury, it is downright irresponsible to name him the starter until one sees and knows how how his injury has responded to taking a normal NFL pounding. Physically it is still a couple of days away from any declaration of him as the starter. If there is any untoward swelling at the site or any decrease in his range of motion (or other objective measure because any athlete will and should say I'm fine put me in coach) he definitely should be sat. 2. JP should play when he is intellectually ready- one of the big differences between a vet and a rookie is that good vets know the playbook backward and forward and can apply it in a manner that helps them and the team. Certainly part of this is only well learned from playing, but another part is acquired and is essential from hitting the books and watching the tapes. Has JP proggressed on this front enough so that he helps himself develop and helps the team practice. I hope so, but no one rational saw any evidence of this in his unfair to measure him by performance last night. I would not condemn and bench him because of it, but I saw no evidence either last night that shows me he helps himself or the team by playing. He should be able to do it easily by sitting and watching this season and simply doing mop up duty this year. However, you should point out to us if you know somerthing the rest of us don't know that indicates he has intellectual contriol of the game at this point so that he is the equal of P. Manning or RoboQB and ahead of Vick and Pennington in their development/ 3. JP should be mentally ready- I use this phrase as a catch-all for his mechancics. It is clear from his highlights and history that he did not develop the proper mechanics at Tulane. To start him if he does not have the proper mechanics wil probably set back his development rather than help it as bad habits will be ingrained in his pro game of throwing off the wrong foot or off-balance if he is running for his life. If Losman still has the mechanical problems he showed in college then the best thing to do for his development is to spend his time in the Ralph Field House throwing the ball and throwing it the same way again under Wyche's eye rather than simply throwing him to the wolves and using the Todd Collins development plan to build his game. I agree start him when he is ready to start and it will help his development, ICE and nobody has given any objective tangible evidence or sense of JP having mastered the intellectual and mental side of the game and none of these doctors have any clue of how he has reponded physically to the normal MFL pounding to credibly assert that he is ready to start on Sunday. I hope he is, but i really doubt this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 How can you get any worse than what Drew is doing on the road? I'd rather see a young QB making mistakes than a washed-up one that doesn't learn from them and whom you are going nowhere with. If the goal is to win 6 games this year (we can win at home with Drew, but absolutely have no chance on the road), then we should play Drew. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO PLAY DREW UNLESS JP STRUGGLES AND FROM A CONFIDENCE STANDPOINT NEEDS TO GET PULLED. We are never going anywhere with Drew as our QB. 118892[/snapback] I seriously think that's a legit question. Will a rookie QB give the Bills a better chance to win on the road than Bledsoe. If Losman didn't miss all that practice time with his broken leg, this would be a no-brainer. But where I disagree is that once Losman starts, you can't pull him. It's his team, and you have to ride it out with him. If things go bad, you don't want the vets to politick against him for the veteran QB, so the team needs to know that they have to make him successful, there's no other choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eventualchamps Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I seriously think that's a legit question. Will a rookie QB give the Bills a better chance to win on the road than Bledsoe. If Losman didn't miss all that practice time with his broken leg, this would be a no-brainer. But where I disagree is that once Losman starts, you can't pull him. It's his team, and you have to ride it out with him. If things go bad, you don't want the vets to politick against him for the veteran QB, so the team needs to know that they have to make him successful, there's no other choice. 118907[/snapback] Ummm....I don't think your going to see the vets pulling for Bledsoe. As for others incessant whining of "maybe JP's not ready mentally yet" - go pound salt. Absolutely no one (not even the Buffalo coaches) can tell you if he will be successful or not once he starts playing - it's a crap shoot. It is a fact however that Bledsoe has stunk for the last 2.5 years and we cannot win with him. It is also a fact that he is not Buffalo's future. It's Losman time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Ummm....I don't think your going to see the vets pulling for Bledsoe. As for others incessant whining of "maybe JP's not ready mentally yet" - go pound salt. Absolutely no one (not even the Buffalo coaches) can tell you if he will be successful or not once he starts playing - it's a crap shoot. It is a fact however that Bledsoe has stunk for the last 2.5 years and we cannot win with him. It is also a fact that he is not Buffalo's future. It's Losman time. 118958[/snapback] You could be right. While it's a crap shoot on how Losman's going to perform in a game, the coaching staff is grading him out in practice right now. So they do have an idea on how prepared he is heading into the game. No doubt Bledsoe has set a low bar. If JP has made progress coming off of his injury, this is a difficult decision for the coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Granted JP can wait a few weeks, no big deal I guess... But as far as Big-Ben-its or whatever it is, I think you have to make the assumtion that JP is not as good as Big Ben if you don't insert him now...And there is only one way to find out, and that's by playing JP. The Pittsburgh Coaches have done a tremendous job in getting Big Ben ready, maybe our Staff is not up to that challenge, who knows? But I just cannot stand this idea of protecting JP like he's some sort of fragile China Doll...He's a QB, he's been drafted into the NFL, put the Kid out there and see what kind of ability he has when given all the Reps, Game Plan, etc...Does anyone believe there was a single person in the Pittsburgh Organization who felt Ben would be this good, this early? Of coarse not...Maybe the Bills are in for a pleasant surprise like that, maybe not, but there's only one way to find out... The Kids not a Ballarina, he's a QB...If playing hurts his development than I question immediately whether or not he's the QB of the future. I know for certain if you ask JP he'll say he wants to play now. That's the type of QB he is, and I think that type of personality needs to get in the Game, take his lumps like a Man, and learn on the Field not off... B) 118789[/snapback] Yes, yes - I'm all for on the job training. No one is gonna get better just watching film. But if you're tackles are turnstiles and are not getting it done...I'm all for lumps but to get tattoed into the turf before your confidence is built, then you'll just have a candidate for the happy farm... I really, really think we just need a vet who won't lose the game for us. Per Dilfer. ICE's point on the kid not being prepared last nite is well taken. I'm not forming an opinion solely on Losman's performance last night. I just feel the important pieces of this offense are still a work in progress, the moment things don't go his way, Losman is gonna panic and shoot himself in the foot. I just think Matthews will maybe not panic as much and just make better decisions. So far as we're still in it, however remotely, than I think we have the luxury of letting JP take more time to heal and get his head on straight. Hence the vote for Matthews. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneida Lake Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 JV Loserman needs to grab a clipboard and watch some more NFL football from the sidelines before he goes in again and makes a further embarrassment of himself. 5 snaps/ 2 turnovers. Let's see that amortizes to about 18 turnovers a game. He looked like a boyscout out there among real men. He's frikking tiny! Nervous feet. He spent not one millisecond in the pocket on any play. He's scared to death!! This ain't the frat boys from East Carolina out there, this is the NFL. Big fellas, all out to snap you in half. I love the guys who said "wait til Losman gets in there!!!" What a joke! And now the same guys that blast Bledsoe are making excuses for the wunderkind saviour. I hate to tell you, I've seen the college film on this kid, got the training camp feedback, and know the exhibition season stats against the scrubs. Nothing indicates that this kid should be thrown out there yet. Nothing. He needs to play a quarter a game in any remaining blowouts. Drink some damn protein shakes and go play in Germany. If you want to get him killed put him out behind that o line right now. If you want to turn him into your future quarterback have some patience. If you're tired of seeing Bledsoe, put Matthews in to start. Use some common sense about this for crissakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 If you're tired of seeing Bledsoe, put Matthews in to start. Use some common sense about this for crissakes. 119068[/snapback] Works for me. Just deactivate that POS & send his monkey-ass back to Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babyrock Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 skill and mental-readiness aside... JPL's pre-pubescent moustache needs to go immediately (totally unrelated, just had to get that off my chest) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Common sense? Give JP the god damn snaps this week in practice THEN play him. don't have his ass sitting the whole game on the sidelines in sweatpants, say you are playing mathews THEN tell him to lace em' up your going in. THAT is common fuggin sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mary owen Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Ummm....I don't think your going to see the vets pulling for Bledsoe. As for others incessant whining of "maybe JP's not ready mentally yet" - go pound salt. Absolutely no one (not even the Buffalo coaches) can tell you if he will be successful or not once he starts playing - it's a crap shoot. It is a fact however that Bledsoe has stunk for the last 2.5 years and we cannot win with him. It is also a fact that he is not Buffalo's future. It's Losman time. 118958[/snapback] The question of whether Bledsoe deserves to sit and its time for JP to start are two different questions. I think anyone who watches football (and a lot whio don't agree that it's time to bench Bledsoe. However, it remains a very open question about the usefulness of starting JP right now rather than the no-brainer it is often presented as being. I certainly have been incessant (though I think whether it is whining or not says more about the reader than the writer) about what I think the factors are that should be a guide to a smart decision about developing our QB of the future which with a 3-6 record and a roadmap from BB as to how to attack out D effectively ,akesthe playoffs all but mathematically impossible. I will incessantly (whine or not) say in response to others incessantly calling for JP to start that the relevant factors are: 1. JP's physical health- Good to see that his injury has healed enough he can play NFL ball, but the only real no-brainer is that if his leg shows even a hint of abnormal swelling or reduction in his range of motion then he should sit and sit tight. Folks may claim to be medical experts because they one time hurt their leg, but if the McGahee situation shows anything, the Bills docs know a lot more than other professionals (not to mention us "couch potatoe" medical experts) about this injury and taking one's time with rehab pays off. 2. JP's intellectual health- Ironically one of the best things to happen to his development was probably the injury IF he used the time to sit in the booth and soak up Sam Wyche's knowledge rather than sitting on the sideline yulling it up and building camaraderie with his teamates. I think JP (and all rookies) need to see plays develop, understand the choices made and why they did or didn't work than build his leadership ability. I think this brash youngster can become a leader if he learns the lessons to be a pro and thi means study. Maybe he has got it, maybe he hasn't. I don't know and I doubt any of the other posters know. There was nothing shown in the unfair to conclusively on play last night to conclude he is a bust OR that he should start. 3. JP's mental health- I use this term mostly to mean his mechanics. JP showed in the highlight tapes from his college days that he has a number of things to work on to improve the mechanics of his game. Unless he suceeds in making these changes having him play will actually likely retard his development as he will be less likely to be successful and less likely to build good chemistry. Maybe he should start but probably not as I see no one laying out any objective evidence that his physical recovery is fine, he has mastered the game, or he has ironed out his mechanics. I hope he has, most rookies have not given this point in their careers and while last night should not be used to give up on him he showed nothing last night that inspires confidence he can perform and develop into our QB of the future. Maybe he will, but there is not enough certainty to rationally say that starting him is the way to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICE Posted November 15, 2004 Author Share Posted November 15, 2004 Aww hell here we go again. 15 paragraphs of CRAP! Play him, you find out. Don't play him, you won't. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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