Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 Jauron had one (1) winning season in his entire coaching career. One. If you average out all his full seasons, he is 7-9 per season. That is his career average. Even a blind squirrel ...... blah, blah, blah. His record is not secret, but we are talking about what will Ralph do, not fans. So, the fact DJ can go 7-9 with inept QB's his whole career, whos to say average play by Fitz might get us to say 8-8...if so, would Ralph fire him? FYI: I think everyone wants to see him go, its a question of "what if" and what will Ralph do if it happens...
tonyjustbcuz Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Think about this for a second, kind of a scary thought... Most of everyone can agree that Trent has been holding this offense back (along with JP when he was here) going back to the middle of last season. Not that DJ has been any good himself, but its pretty obvious with better QB play last year and this year look very different. If Fitz comes in and plays well enough to win a couple games before Trent comes back, it is quite possible Fitz may remain the starter (assuming he does play well which is still yet to be known), especially given how many jobs are on the line. So if we start winning some games with say average play by Fitz and finish strong, could that be enough for Ralph to rationalize that with a real QB he could win with DJ and then go after a QB via FA or Draft and keep DJ one more year? I really hope and pray this doesnt happen with all the incredible talent of HC's available, but given DJ is under contract for 3 years I could this happening... I am pretty sure Ralph wont fire DJ mid season (or he would have already) unless he does it on the bye week. So, more than likely DJ will have the rest of the season. We have been close in many of our losses going back to last year despite poor play by the QB, so its not unrealistic to think we could finish 8-8 or 9-7 with average to solid play by Fitz (which who knows if he is even capable of it yet). So, could it be a double edge sword to root for Fitz to do well as it could lead to another season of DJ when all this coaching talent is out there? Just enjoy the entertainment of the game, unless your a player! Too many people are just repeating what they see in the media and it's a little ridiculous. With this staff it doesn't make sense to root for the #1 pick in the draft because they will probably take too much time to make their selection and be penalized into picking #2 instead and then squander the opportunity by picking someone else other than what most draft forecasters would choose. They will justify it by saying that they are just following their draft board which is different from everyone else's and pick another Mike Williams type of player. So just relax and enjoy the team while we still have them despite how inept the coaching staff, scouting team, and strength and conditioning coaches have been in game day and offseason preparation. What one step would be most effective? The first step would be to hire a GM (in the likes of Bill Polian). That simple.....He'll make coaching changes....coaches will make player changes and the GM will hire other personnel office people and can Tom Modrak and his assistants. Russ Brandon needs to stick to sales & marketing only! Unfortuanately, we all have our ideas & suggestions and Ralph Wilson has proven in the past that he will move at his turtle pace and do things his way regardless! Remember we have been losing close games for about 10 years now....Dallas Monday night, Homerun throwback, so many to N.E., Yikes the list goes on and on. This isn't a new thing...it comes down to the organizational personnel. How come coaches that fail here go on to other places and do well?? Pittsburgh's D-Coordinator Lebeau was here...and then he excelled in Pittsburgh! Our O-Line coach (can't think of name) had a great record of reviving O-Lines (but not here)....It's not just the QB is my point....Todd Collins, Rob Johnson, Billy Joe whatever, J.P. Lossman, Trent Edwards, and probably others.....they can't all be bad! It's the team philosophy, and the way the team is built, coached, ran, how they negotiate with free agents, contracts, etc..........It's a poorly managed team! Good or great teams repeat historically ie: Boston Celtics, NY Yankees, LA Lakers, Detroit Red Wings, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots etc........even when skill players change, coaches change they almost always get back to being successful even after a year or two lull. Whole point is don't expect much as a fan because we can't control much and this organization isn't committed enough (since "87-94) to put a winning product on the field! They will plug some holes into a sinking ship with a street free agent like Owens or Dockery, but in the end the ship is sinking and it needsa complete overhaul from top to bottom as a strong foundation will keep the keel intact and the ship will be able to float again!
Kultarr Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 It seems pretty unrealistic to think the Bills can seriously go 6-4 or 7-3 the rest of the way regardless of which of the football-limited QBs is on the field. The Patriots, Falcons, and Colts close out the year. That means the Bills would have to go on a tear through Carolina, Houston, Tenn, Jax, Miami, Jets, and KC and there is 4.5 road games in there. The win over the Jets was nice, but it was hardly convincing. It was more of an attempted screw-up that backfired into something positive. Jauron's play-not-to-lose philosophy means we'll lose at least as many games as we win at the end of games, and only in those games where we can keep it semi-interesting. (Losing by small margins really shouldn't convince anyone that this team is close to greatness.) Jauron's elevator only goes up to "7" at best; and, his 8.5 year record prove he can't get it done. Still, it could be even worse. Getting rid of Jauron to replace him with the next Hank Bullough wouldn't improve anything.
Alphadawg7 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Posted October 21, 2009 It seems pretty unrealistic to think the Bills can seriously go 6-4 or 7-3 the rest of the way regardless of which of the football-limited QBs is on the field. The Patriots, Falcons, and Colts close out the year. That means the Bills would have to go on a tear through Carolina, Houston, Tenn, Jax, Miami, Jets, and KC and there is 4.5 road games in there. The win over the Jets was nice, but it was hardly convincing. It was more of an attempted screw-up that backfired into something positive. Jauron's play-not-to-lose philosophy means we'll lose at least as many games as we win at the end of games and only in those games where we can keep it semi-interesting. (Losing by small margins really shouldn't convince anyone that this team is close to greatness.) Jauron's elevator only goes up to "7" at best; and, his 8.5 year record prove he can't get it done. Still, it could be even worse. Getting rid of Jauron to replace him with a Hank Bullough wouldn't improve anything. I get what you are saying, but Car, Tenn, Jax, Miami, Jets, and KC are all winnable games for us. Hou is tougher, but also winnable. Atl and Pats should definitley be losses for us, but the others are all very winnable. The Colts are likely going to be playing their backups 75% of the game, we should realisticly win that game if they do...if for some reason the Colts have reason to play their starters, then yes, we will lose that game. But I am pretty sure Indy will have their spot locked up...
Kultarr Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 I get what you are saying, but Car, Tenn, Jax, Miami, Jets, and KC are all winnable games for us. Hou is tougher, but also winnable. Atl and Pats should definitley be losses for us, but the others are all very winnable. The Colts are likely going to be playing their backups 75% of the game, we should realisticly win that game if they do...if for some reason the Colts have reason to play their starters, then yes, we will lose that game. But I am pretty sure Indy will have their spot locked up... Winnable? Yeah, maybe. These Bills find a way to lose "winnable" games with regularity. My memory is working just fine.
Simon Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Seriously, please show me where I or anyone said Trent was our only problem Simon.......No one, including myself, is saying Trent is our only problem. Are you freaking joking me? You tried to claim it was a foregone conclusion that it was Trent that was holding this offense back. And now you're telling me nobody is saying that? Bunk. Not to mention, for someone who claims to be so knowledgable on football Simon you can possiblytell me you did not notice a DISTINCT positive influence in our offense once Fitz came into the game. I'd be interested to see you ever find me making claims "to be so knowledgable on football". This is an hysterically funny accusation from a kid who's repeatedly told people he knows more than them because he played the game. And I'm not sure what you mean by a DISTINCT positive influence. Do you mean how the offense was scoring 3 pts in the 1 quarter that Trent played and then EXPLODED for a RIPROARING 13 pts over the next 57+ minutes once we had got rid of the player "that was holding this offense back"? Or did you mean DISTINCT positive influence like throwing a horrid pick at midfield in OT that was by far the worst ball thrown by any Bills QB this year. Pardon me while I catch my breath Add in that Fitz had no sacks and made our O line look a lot better against a defense that previously made our offense look like a High School offense with Trent at command. It gave up no sacks under Fitz as he moved around the pocket more. Yes we looked like a HS offense with Trent "at command" averaging only 15 pts/game prior to the game vs the JEST. Fortunately the QB change got rid of the guy "that was holding the offense back" <giggle> and once we were rid of him we managed to increase our output to just over 13 pts/game<guffaw>. A truly significant, no, DISTINCT improvement! <melts helplessly into laughter> And have you considered the possibility that the OLine may have looked a little better because we were playing the team that was last in the NFL in sacks? But why mention that when you have an agenda to pursue? Nobody can tell squat about Edwards (or Fitzpatrick (or for that matter Hamdan when this OLine ultimately gets Fitzpatrick hurt)) in this clown college offense. And anybody that claims differently is talking out their ass.
Simon Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 True. Watching MNF, I couldn't help but notice Phillip Rivers making some great plays despite playing behind a terrible OL. Trent is far from the only problem, but he's not a solution either. It's so bad I don't think there is a solution. And certainly not one in the form of one player. I'll say again that I don't like what I've seen from Trent so far, but it's such a mess out there that I refuse to pass any judgment on any QB that is asked to stand in behind that gossamer circus tent. Anybody at the QB position that wants to come out of this mess intact, has got to stop being overcautious and get that thing out of there. Edwards has been too overprotective of the ball thus far and while it may keep the Bills in most games it comes at the expense of the ability to utilize our most potent weapons. Ball security may arguably be a QB's #1 priority, but it's not his only priority. And the Bills QB's are going to have to recognize that if they want to survive. Of course that's easier said than done when opponents are dropping 7 people into manunder zones. And the Bills are only running 2-3 people out on routes because they need all the help in protection they can get. And the 4 man rush is still getting home all day long. Not a lot of time to get rid of the ball, particularly when there's very few places to put it.
billsfantilldeath Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 It is definitely a scary thought, but it's not gonna happen. Keep in mind, Fitz was actually struggling throughout the Jets game aside from that slant pass to Lee Evans for 6. He also struggled big time in the preseason to make his throws. This offense is not capable of putting up a ton of points and the run defense is absolutely garbage. This weekend against Carolina is gonna be a real eye opener for the few people that don't realize how bad this bills run defense is. D'Angelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are ridiculously good and both are coming off 100yrd performances this past week. Bottom Line: Another season without a playoff appearance means goodnight (hopefully) to Dick Jauron
Alphadawg7 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Posted October 22, 2009 Are you freaking joking me?You tried to claim it was a foregone conclusion that it was Trent that was holding this offense back. And now you're telling me nobody is saying that? Bunk. I didnt say it was the only thing, but the QB position is the biggest thing rather you want to admit that or not...teams all over the league are suffering from O lines just like ours yet are in the top 10 in passing...why, their QB can handle it... I'd be interested to see you ever find me making claims "to be so knowledgable on football". This is an hysterically funny accusation from a kid who's repeatedly told people he knows more than them because he played the game. Um, Simon, no offense but you have made that claim more than once, including to me, in the past for the very same reason of having played the game... And I'm not sure what you mean by a DISTINCT positive influence. Do you mean how the offense was scoring 3 pts in the 1 quarter that Trent played and then EXPLODED for a RIPROARING 13 pts over the next 57+ minutes once we had got rid of the player "that was holding this offense back"?Or did you mean DISTINCT positive influence like throwing a horrid pick at midfield in OT that was by far the worst ball thrown by any Bills QB this year. Pardon me while I catch my breath Did I say it was uproariously better? NO, I said a distinct POSTIVE INFLUENCE as in the ability to involve our WR's and score the first offensive TD (passing mind you) in two games. In fact, Fitz, in less than 2 quarters equaled Trents TD production over 12 quarters of play...and we would have had likely 2 offensive TD's if that pass to Evans wasnt over turned as we would have had first and goal on the two I belive...and the reason it was over turned had nothing to do with throw. Not to mention, Fitz did this on a team he is new to with no opportunity to have worked at all really with the first team in the offseason, preseason, or during the season... LMAO off at your points per game sarcasm...you do realize in 5 games the Bills had 8 TD's but TWO of those came from Schobel on an INT and Moorman on a ST Fake...love how you credit that to production to Trent though...LMAO Not to mention, the offense has only ONE TD since the TB game before Fitz hit Evans for one on a throw Trent doesnt seem to be capable of making as he never does it... Yes we looked like a HS offense with Trent "at command" averaging only 15 pts/game prior to the game vs the JEST. Fortunately the QB change got rid of the guy "that was holding the offense back" <giggle> and once we were rid of him we managed to increase our output to just over 13 pts/game<guffaw>. A truly significant, no, DISTINCT improvement! <melts helplessly into laughter>And have you considered the possibility that the OLine may have looked a little better because we were playing the team that was last in the NFL in sacks? But why mention that when you have an agenda to pursue? Nobody can tell squat about Edwards (or Fitzpatrick (or for that matter Hamdan when this OLine ultimately gets Fitzpatrick hurt)) in this clown college offense. And anybody that claims differently is talking out their ass. What agenda? That Trent sucks? Then the whole board must be on that agenda as about 90% of the people on this board seem to think he isnt any good now...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Posted October 22, 2009 It is definitely a scary thought, but it's not gonna happen. Keep in mind, Fitz was actually struggling throughout the Jets game aside from that slant pass to Lee Evans for 6. He also struggled big time in the preseason to make his throws. This offense is not capable of putting up a ton of points and the run defense is absolutely garbage. This weekend against Carolina is gonna be a real eye opener for the few people that don't realize how bad this bills run defense is. D'Angelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are ridiculously good and both are coming off 100yrd performances this past week. Bottom Line: Another season without a playoff appearance means goodnight (hopefully) to Dick Jauron Believe me, I have little faith in Fitz...I am not claiming him to be good, he could be as we really dont know yet as he has essentially the playing experience of a 2nd year player, but I dont expect a whole lot from him. But, we have enough weapons on this team that he doesnt have to carry the team, just get them the ball and let them make plays. If he can do that, we can win some games with this soft schedule ahead with really only 3 tough games left in Hou, Atl, and NE. The Indy game I think we face all their backups in week 17 as they seem to be on their way to wrapping up their seeding in the weeks prior to that.
benderbender Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 This terrible team is the same one that almost ruined Brady's homecoming (minus injuries). And a terrible team can't scare Brady because everything he does is great. Every time Brady farts an angel gets its wings
billsfantilldeath Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Believe me, I have little faith in Fitz...I am not claiming him to be good, he could be as we really dont know yet as he has essentially the playing experience of a 2nd year player, but I dont expect a whole lot from him. But, we have enough weapons on this team that he doesnt have to carry the team, just get them the ball and let them make plays. If he can do that, we can win some games with this soft schedule ahead with really only 3 tough games left in Hou, Atl, and NE. The Indy game I think we face all their backups in week 17 as they seem to be on their way to wrapping up their seeding in the weeks prior to that. Totally agree, but the fact of the matter is that this coaching staff has not been capable of giving the ball to our weapons. TO has only 15 receptions and 1 TD! Thats totally unacceptable. And the sad thing about this is that sportswriters are berating him that his talent level has gone downhill. Now, granted he does have a few drops, but it seems like the coaching staff has only given him go routes and the occasional misdirection toss sweep. Listen, what I'm trying to say here is that I understand this team has a ton of weapons, but one has to use the weapons to their full capability or they won't be effective on the team. What they should try to do is mess with different formations to screw up defenses. IE: pull up I formation with marshawn running FB position and Jackson running the RB. Or another example, putting TO in the TE position and running a couple of pick plays. That would be a great way to gain success and have Fitz be successful. The only thing is, they just don't do it, and the simplicity of this offensive scheme has become a joke for opposing defenses. Now granted, the Jets was a big win. Not only was it the first division win in a while, it was a reason to stick with this season, but Dick Jauron has to understand that changes must be made offensively and the run defense is terrible w/ the injured linebacking core. CHANGE IS NECESSARY!!!
reddogblitz Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 I would say this season in the few games we were close in, we had a chance to win and the Special Teams/Return Teams lost it for us, not Trent Edwards or any other quarterback. I'll give you the Patsies* game on this on. But in the Clowns game Trent had TO wide freakin' open behind everyone and over threw him. He gets that pass in there and we probably win 10-3 or something. So Trent should get plenty of the blame on that one. And pass protection was good on that play too. And yes, Roscoe screwed up on that muff.
Tunis69 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 Most of everyone can agree that Trent has been holding this offense back (along with JP when he was here) going back to the middle of last season. I doubt most people would agree with this. i'm sure there are plenty of folks in here that might think that but I'm not thinking this is all TE's fault. Has DJ ever had a decent offense while he was a head coach? IMHO, he wants a conservative offense that plays not to lose. Given a different coach and different coaching philosophy I think TE could be a quality starter in this league. Probably not a pro bowler but a decent starter...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Posted October 22, 2009 I doubt most people would agree with this. i'm sure there are plenty of folks in here that might think that but I'm not thinking this is all TE's fault. Has DJ ever had a decent offense while he was a head coach? IMHO, he wants a conservative offense that plays not to lose. Given a different coach and different coaching philosophy I think TE could be a quality starter in this league. Probably not a pro bowler but a decent starter... Has DJ ever had a decent QB while HC?
Adam Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 I get what you are saying, but Car, Tenn, Jax, Miami, Jets, and KC are all winnable games for us. Hou is tougher, but also winnable. Atl and Pats should definitley be losses for us, but the others are all very winnable. The Colts are likely going to be playing their backups 75% of the game, we should realisticly win that game if they do...if for some reason the Colts have reason to play their starters, then yes, we will lose that game. But I am pretty sure Indy will have their spot locked up... I disagree. Despite his struggles this year, Delhomme is much better than any QB we have had since Bledsoe (who was released because of whiny fans). Carolina is better along the offensive and defensive line than we are, and half our defense is hurt. KC is much better than you think- I have seen them a couple times this year and although I thought Cassel was going to suck away from New England, I have to admit, I was wrong- he's the best thing they have on their improving team. I don't think we sweep NY and we will lose to Miami again. Until we get the franchise in order, it doesn't matter if we have Jauron or bring Hank Bullough back.
voodoo poonani Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 I don't understand this. Would you guys get mad if we went 10-6 with Jauron or would you rather have us have another losing season so Jauron is fired. There is no way we go 10-6. We'll probably go 7-9 again and Jauron will be back again because the team is young.
Alphadawg7 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Posted October 22, 2009 I disagree. Despite his struggles this year, Delhomme is much better than any QB we have had since Bledsoe (who was released because of whiny fans). Carolina is better along the offensive and defensive line than we are, and half our defense is hurt. KC is much better than you think- I have seen them a couple times this year and although I thought Cassel was going to suck away from New England, I have to admit, I was wrong- he's the best thing they have on their improving team. I don't think we sweep NY and we will lose to Miami again. Until we get the franchise in order, it doesn't matter if we have Jauron or bring Hank Bullough back. Again though, I did not say we will "win" those games or that they are "easy" games. I said they are "winnable", thats a big difference. So let me get this straight...we should have beat NE and blew it and with a QB that wasnt afraid to throw and could see his WR's we could have beat NO (two of the best teams in football), plus we just beat the Jets...but you dont think we can beat KC, Car, Mia, Tenn, Jax, or the Jets (again)? Dont you think thats a little unreasonable? Again, no one is saying we "will" win those games, but these games are winnable, especially if Fitz can pump some life into the passing game and utilize TO and Evans... Atl and NE I think can be penciled in as losses for us. NE seems to have its Rhythm again and ATL is solid...Indy I think plays their backups, so we should win that game. Hou will also be tough too...
John from Riverside Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 The most I can hope for is that below average Fitz can sling the ball down the field and show the potential of what our offense COULD look like if we had a QB that threw past 5 yards on every play..... We do not have our starting QB on the roster.....
Bills Fan888 Posted October 22, 2009 Posted October 22, 2009 There is no way we go 10-6. We'll probably go 7-9 again and Jauron will be back again because the team is young. Besides the fact that it is a hypothetical question we could still go 10-6. Once we lose 7 games I'll agree with you.
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