EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 So blame the Yankees that your teams owner chose to pocket the money rather than spend it. Yes the Yankees way out spend everyone else, but they out earn everyone else, because they outspend them. They put a winning team out on the field year after year, and they send almost as much money to some of the other teams as the teams actually spend. Why is the NFL so successful? Because the LEAGUE UNDERSTANDS that good competition and a level playing field greatly increases revenue AND helps to keep player's salaries at a reasonable level. Baseball STILL doesn't understand this, and the Dallas Cowboys of MLB, the Yankees, will continue to take full advantage of this corrupt system and horrid owners like Bob Nutting of the Pirates will as well. I have a RIGHT to be angry with both my team management and teams like the Yankees, for they propagate this system, and it is wrong.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 And how much money do the Pirate get from the Yankees and Red Sox alone. Enough to cover the payroll, and they would probably even have fans in the seats, since they would have a chance at winning allot more games. Enough to keep Nutting fat, dumb, and happy... as the post says I just put up, both are to blame in this.
Indy Dave Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 What?!!!!?!?! OK, let us just say that this "homegrown talent" theory of yours is viable... well then, let's see how it holds up with my team: Aramis Ramirez: $16,650,000 Freddy Sanchez: $4,150,000 Jason Bay: $7,800,000 TOTAL: $28,600,000 THREE PLAYERS, all homegrown, all for what the Pirates payroll is now. If we decided to keep all of our homegrown talent, then we would require an amount FAR in excess of the highest payroll amount in the Pirates' history. They have been forced to trade away talent to teams like the Yankees because the bidding for their services FAR surpasses what the Pirates could afford to keep them.... PLEASE do not act as if your "homegrown talent" makes you blameless, because it is a FALLACY. Sorry, but you can't blame 17 consecutive losing seasons on payroll. Try a completely inept organization that constantly trades young guys like the three you mentioned, not to mention Jack Wilson, Nady, McClouth, LaRoche, etc., etc., etc. and doesn't get enough in return. To suggest that's the fault of anyone or anything other than lousy GMs and scouts is nuts. Like I said earlier, the Yankees (and other teams) have advantages that teams like the Pirates don't. I don't argue that point. But Pittsburgh is no different than Minnesota, for example, and they field a competitive team more times than not. The only injustice with the Yankees is if they took all that money they have and DIDN'T invest in talent to fill holes on their team.
dave mcbride Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Just a quick note: Anyone who condemns baseball for steroids/HGH while ignoring it in the NFL is living in a big, big world of denial. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, but anyone who thinks that NFL players are far bigger and stronger now than 30 years ago because of better nutritional programs, well, I don't know what to say. My sense is that w/regard to the NFL, people care less about the issue because individual stats matter far less than in baseball. Whether Walter Jones or Steve Hutchinson or Jason Ferguson or Michael Strahan or Pat Williams or Albert Haynesworth or Mark Gastineau or Kyle Turley are juiced or not won't mess up Hank Aaron's or Roger Maris' home run record.
Like A Mofo Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Just a quick note: Anyone who condemns baseball for steroids/HGH while ignoring it in the NFL is living in a big, big world of denial. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, but anyone who thinks that NFL players are far bigger and stronger now than 30 years ago because of better nutritional programs, well, I don't know what to say. My sense is that w/regard to the NFL, people care less about the issue because individual stats matter far less than in baseball. Whether Walter Jones or Steve Hutchinson or Jason Ferguson or Michael Strahan or Pat Williams or Albert Haynesworth or Mark Gastineau or Kyle Turley are juiced or not won't mess up Hank Aaron's or Roger Maris' home run record. +100000000000000 Great post as always Dave
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Sorry, but you can't blame 17 consecutive losing seasons on payroll. Try a completely inept organization that constantly trades young guys like the three you mentioned, not to mention Jack Wilson, Nady, McClouth, LaRoche, etc., etc., etc. and doesn't get enough in return. To suggest that's the fault of anyone or anything other than lousy GMs and scouts is nuts. Like I said earlier, the Yankees (and other teams) have advantages that teams like the Pirates don't. I don't argue that point. But Pittsburgh is no different than Minnesota, for example, and they field a competitive team more times than not. The only injustice with the Yankees is if they took all that money they have and DIDN'T invest in talent to fill holes on their team. I have every right to- even during the Marlins' and Diamondbacks' World Series teams, $54 million and $76 million in payroll is STILL higher than the Pirates' payroll by over $10 million. What kind of continuity can be formed by trading away players on a constant basis?! The Yankees don't do it.... after all, you all were crowing about all of your retained "homegrown talent". As has been noted countless times in sports, you cannot BUY a championship, but also you can't win if you are constantly a turnstile of talent EITHER...
taterhill Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 all same for me except the Knicks. i feel almost like i should be obligated to root for the Clippers... mostly because they used to be the braves, but also that would kind of fit the spiritual futility... someone say Pirates? Funny story....I subscribed to Baseball Weekly years ago(probably 2002) and TBS had an ad in the back....."Where were you when Sid slid"...I canceled my subscrip the next day......
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 someone say Pirates? Funny story....I subscribed to Baseball Weekly years ago(probably 2002) and TBS had an ad in the back....."Where were you when Sid slid"...I canceled my subscrip the next day...... Nice one!!! LOL I saw an autographed Cabrera photo at a show and just walked right out... ohh the pain.
Indy Dave Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 What kind of continuity can be formed by trading away players on a constant basis?! The Yankees don't do it.... Um...we traded Wilson Betemit. I kid, I kid.
nucci Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Just a quick note: Anyone who condemns baseball for steroids/HGH while ignoring it in the NFL is living in a big, big world of denial. I'm not saying anyone here has done that, but anyone who thinks that NFL players are far bigger and stronger now than 30 years ago because of better nutritional programs, well, I don't know what to say. My sense is that w/regard to the NFL, people care less about the issue because individual stats matter far less than in baseball. Whether Walter Jones or Steve Hutchinson or Jason Ferguson or Michael Strahan or Pat Williams or Albert Haynesworth or Mark Gastineau or Kyle Turley are juiced or not won't mess up Hank Aaron's or Roger Maris' home run record. Well said.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Um...we traded Wilson Betemit. I kid, I kid. Very true... LOL. Seriously, a lot of my anger is focused on Nutting... and until there is a cap, he'll rake in the ca$h.
Peevo Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 At its core, I will truly never understand how a fan born in Buffalo can be a true, honest, live and die baseball fan. Sure, one can admire and respect the game for its attributes. Most sports fans are baseball fans. I just think being a Yankees or Red Sox fan, while also being a Bills and Sabres fan is inherently artificial. If you told me you got as upset over a Yankees loss as a Bills loss you'd be lying. Plain and simple. It's easy to be a Yankees fan or Bosox fan. No worries about relocation, the long term viability of the franchise, or its long term competitiveness. Every year, these teams will field winners, or at least spend like they will. How does a fan of our teams, both hockey and football, have ANYTHING in common with that? Seriously. I appreciate the game. It takes a lot of thinking and patience to really appreciate the nuance of baseball. But at the end of the day, if the Yankees win the World Series, Yankees fans here will be happy for sure. But you can not tell me its the same feeling that "we FINALLY won one" like it would be for a Bills or Sabres championship. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't compare.
Magox Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 At its core, I will truly never understand how a fan born in Buffalo can be a true, honest, live and die baseball fan. Sure, one can admire and respect the game for its attributes. Most sports fans are baseball fans. I just think being a Yankees or Red Sox fan, while also being a Bills and Sabres fan is inherently artificial. If you told me you got as upset over a Yankees loss as a Bills loss you'd be lying. Plain and simple. It's easy to be a Yankees fan or Bosox fan. No worries about relocation, the long term viability of the franchise, or its long term competitiveness. Every year, these teams will field winners, or at least spend like they will. How does a fan of our teams, both hockey and football, have ANYTHING in common with that? Seriously. I appreciate the game. It takes a lot of thinking and patience to really appreciate the nuance of baseball. But at the end of the day, if the Yankees win the World Series, Yankees fans here will be happy for sure. But you can not tell me its the same feeling that "we FINALLY won one" like it would be for a Bills or Sabres championship. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't compare. Of course it's not the same, The Bills have never won a championship whereas the Yankees have won it a bazillion times
rstencel Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Why is the NFL so successful? Because the LEAGUE UNDERSTANDS that good competition and a level playing field greatly increases revenue AND helps to keep player's salaries at a reasonable level. Baseball STILL doesn't understand this, and the Dallas Cowboys of MLB, the Yankees, will continue to take full advantage of this corrupt system and horrid owners like Bob Nutting of the Pirates will as well. I have a RIGHT to be angry with both my team management and teams like the Yankees, for they propagate this system, and it is wrong. I agree that the NFL's system is better, and that you sure do have a right to support your team. But my opinion is if the Yankees make more money by taking advantage of the system, why shouldn't they. Its good business, and it is what the team is in existence for. Not saying I like the system, as would much prefer a more balanced playing field, and a cap. But no matter how balanced it is, there are going to be teams that do better than others. There will always be teams like the Bills that have to overpay for marginal talent. Also teams like Dolphin's and Pat's who get people to come to them cheap to play for their org, and teams like Redskins and Cowboys who have the revenue to pay huge signing bonuses for long term contracts that players will never finish, so can bypass cap for a few years, and have the salary com off books when cap is higher later down the road. Basically, I am not disagreeing with you that system is flawed, just don't think it is the fault of the teams taking advantage of it, but the league that is supposed to regulate it.
rstencel Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 Of course it's not the same, The Bills have never won a championship whereas the Yankees have won it a bazillion times Well some of us had families that have been in the area a long time, and grew up watching the Buffalo Bison's before they moved to Boston and became the Red Sox. My Grand parents actually met the first time at a Boson's game as kids. Heard allot of stories about those games, and the semi pro games they used to take My mom to as a kid.
Adam Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 They might not win or even get into the World Series, but they try their hardest. The exact opposite of the Bills organization. If you don't think the Bills are trying to win, you are crazy. The defense played out of their minds on Sunday- despite missing a bunch of players, they had 6 int's. Thats playing hard and that's coaching- it sure isn't talent.....
dave mcbride Posted October 21, 2009 Posted October 21, 2009 At its core, I will truly never understand how a fan born in Buffalo can be a true, honest, live and die baseball fan. Sure, one can admire and respect the game for its attributes. Most sports fans are baseball fans. I just think being a Yankees or Red Sox fan, while also being a Bills and Sabres fan is inherently artificial. If you told me you got as upset over a Yankees loss as a Bills loss you'd be lying. Plain and simple. It's easy to be a Yankees fan or Bosox fan. No worries about relocation, the long term viability of the franchise, or its long term competitiveness. Every year, these teams will field winners, or at least spend like they will. How does a fan of our teams, both hockey and football, have ANYTHING in common with that? Seriously. I appreciate the game. It takes a lot of thinking and patience to really appreciate the nuance of baseball. But at the end of the day, if the Yankees win the World Series, Yankees fans here will be happy for sure. But you can not tell me its the same feeling that "we FINALLY won one" like it would be for a Bills or Sabres championship. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't compare. It helps if you've lived in NYC for a long time. Plus I never really loved hockey. Once I moved from Buffalo, I paid almost no attention to it. Even while growing up in Buffalo, hockey was a distant third for me, and it would have been fourth if the Braves hadn't moved. Still I like to see the Sabres win.
Gotta Dream Posted October 22, 2009 Author Posted October 22, 2009 If you don't think the Bills are trying to win, you are crazy. The defense played out of their minds on Sunday- despite missing a bunch of players, they had 6 int's. Thats playing hard and that's coaching- it sure isn't talent..... Well I'm not really sure it's coaching. It's luck and players playing beyond the ineptitude of coaching.
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