Interesting article on bicycles and traffic laws

[DrDawkinstein]

So crowds only in SF can get out of hand? So if the cop had over-reacted in SF that would have been ok?

 

not sure how you came up with this one.

 

i have to imagine that almost everyone on this board has incredibly fatigued legs from jumping to so many conclusions in every thread.

[Fan in San Diego]

Cycling and traffic laws are a weird dynamic. Cyclists do have to obey the rules, but UNLIKE when driving a car, to the extend you obey them is MUCH more dependenent on conditions and time of day. To use Tone's example, if youre riding through a nice quiet neigborhood on your way home, a cyclist is NOT going to come to a full stop for every stop sign. That would be pointless. A good cyclist will come to an intersection like this, look both ways, determine that the road is clear and keep going. If there is a car there, s/he may slow down and yield or keep going, depending on the action of the car. Its actually the same with red lights. Youll come to a light, slow down, look both ways and if traffic permits, go through it and if traffic doesnt permit, stop. To illustrate this...I go down a VERY busy road on my morning rides. At 530AM on my way out when the road is very very quiet, I wont stop for lights or stopsigns...just as I approach, make sure traffic is clear and keep right on going. But on the way back at 830AM in the middle of rush hour, its a whole different ballgame and Im MUCH more in tune with the cars and stop lights and Im very careful to "follow the traffic signal rules" and what not.

 

I cant speak for the fools who ride on sidewalks, against traffic or just blow through lights without looking. Obviously, there is no place for that. But cyclist's rode rules are governed MUCH more by traffic conditions at the time and not as much by the rules automobiles are governed by.

 

One thing thats a peeve of mine...this notion by cars that I have to get to the shoulder. No....share the road. I dont see you driving your car in the shoulder, dodging roadkill, tree blowdown, dirt and garbage. Dont expect me ride my bike in that crap.

 

I'll respect your space on the road and share nicely when cyclist's can move at the posted speed limit. There is this one road that cyclist's love to ride up and down because of a steep hill. The posted speed is 50 mph. Sometimes I get stuck behind two cyclist side by side going 10 mph and expect me to just cruise behind them at 10 mph the whole way. They wont move over! Screw that! If your impeding traffic then move over.

[Beerball]

they do Critical Mass in almost every major city. they have it here in Atlanta, and they even have (a good) one in Buffalo.

 

when done correctly, its a good idea. its to raise motorist awareness that bikes do belong on the street so we should watch out for them. here in Atlanta, theyve had bike police join up and theyll go ahead to stop traffic at lights and whatnot. ive ridden in Buffalo's a few times and only once in Atlanta. good times.

 

i remember a story in Buffalo that made the front page of Artvoice (oo, important) about a near riot that went down when one of the critical massers get their mass kicked by a cop. they had it on video and everything. (not surprisingly) it was another over-reaction by a cop who was all hopped up because he was "out numbered" in the middle of a peaceful, hippie crowd.

 

i can see the SF one being way more out of hand, given the local crust/punk scene and general spoiled hippie kid nature of the locals. but CM in other cities is actually pretty fun and positive.

So, stopping traffic at green lights and whatnot is a good idea? what have I learned from this good idea?

 

Have any of the cars that have been stopped at green lights and whatnot thought it was fun and positive?

[BUFFALOTONE]

I'm sorry, who are you again?

 

We were joking, we have never met.

[Beerball]

We were joking, we have never met.

And yet your wife is pregnant?

[DrDawkinstein]

So, stopping traffic at green lights and whatnot is a good idea? what have I learned from this good idea?

 

Have any of the cars that have been stopped at green lights and whatnot thought it was fun and positive?

 

welcome to life in the city. traffic is stopped and/or rerouted all the time for parades, events, filming, etc.

 

if the cops get involved and support it, it cant be that bad, right? im sure there are plenty of people that were "pissed" about the 3 extra minutes they had to wait at the light. Even in Atlanta traffic, do I flip out when the school on my street has a function and cars back up for half a mile because the kids are all crossing the road? No. Oh-bla-dee Oh-bla-da.

[Chef Jim]

We were joking, we have never met.

 

I'm sorry you missed my joke. And if you child comes out with dark hair and glasses you're right, we've never met.

[RkFast]

Yup you're the type. It is ILLEGAL to run a red light, stop sign or to ignore any rules of the road while on a bike or car. God I hate bikers with your attitude.

 

Let me get this right....I carefully watch where Im going, use proper signals, yield to traffic, etc...but becuase I run a red light or go through a stop sign ONLY after slowing and looking both ways and only at six in the morning and/or when there isnt a car or pedestrian around for miles, you cant stand my attitude and Im a "smug mother !@#$er."

 

Youre either completely mindless...or pulling my leg. Which?

[Chef Jim]

not sure how you came up with this one.

 

i have to imagine that almost everyone on this board has incredibly fatigued legs from jumping to so many conclusions in every thread.

 

So a cop is supposed to know which crowd is passive fun loving hippies and which crowd is aggressive dangerous hippies or would you agree that a crowd could become dangerous regardless of what city they're in?

[Beerball]

Let me get this right....I carefully watch where Im going, use proper signals, yield to traffic, etc...but becuase I run a red light or go through a stop sign ONLY after slowing and looking both ways and only at six in the morning and/or when there isnt a car or pedestrian around for miles, you cant stand my attitude and Im a "smug mother !@#$er."

 

Youre either completely mindless...or pulling my leg. Which?

Do you do the same thing when you are in your car?

 

If not, why not?

[Chef Jim]

Let me get this right....I carefully watch where Im going, use proper signals, yield to traffic, etc...but becuase I run a red light or go through a stop sign ONLY after slowing and looking both ways and only at six in the morning and/or when there isnt a car or pedestrian around for miles, you cant stand my attitude and Im a "smug mother !@#$er."

 

Youre either completely mindless...or pulling my leg. Which?

 

Because you don't think it's illegal and that there are different rules for bikes and cars. The fact that you went bat **** crazy when I challenged you on this shows me you're just lilke the smug bastards who think they own the road on their bikes. Notice you're outnumbered in this thread?

 

Can you at least admit you break the law when your ride your bike?

[DrDawkinstein]

So a cop is supposed to know which crowd is passive fun loving hippies and which crowd is aggressive dangerous hippies or would you agree that a crowd could become dangerous regardless of what city they're in?

 

of course they could. and yes, a cop is supposed to know when a crowd is getting dangerous, and when it is not. thats why they are trusted to be a civil servant and given a gun. not saying its easy to do, but thats why they get extensive training. they are professional peace keepers, not citizen abusers.

 

there is a VAST difference between what Wacka* described in SF, and the circumstances of this one single instance I was referring to in Buffalo. other than this one time, there have been no altercations between police and riders in Buffalo, and the riders have caused no trouble.

[Chef Jim]

of course they could. and yes, a cop is supposed to know when a crowd is getting dangerous, and when it is not. thats why they are trusted to be a civil servant and given a gun. not saying its easy to do, but thats why they get extensive training. they are professional peace keepers, not citizen abusers.

 

there is a VAST difference between what RK described in SF, and the circumstances of this one single instance I was referring to in Buffalo. other than this one time, there have been no altercations between police and riders in Buffalo, and the riders have caused no trouble......as far as I know.

 

You missed that last bit.

[DrDawkinstein]

You missed that last bit.

 

lol, i actually started typing that but didnt feel like turning it into a run on sentence. yes, as far as I know from being there for a while and then through the media.

[Chef Jim]

lol, i actually started typing that but didnt feel like turning it into a run on sentence. yes, as far as I know from being there for a while and then through the media.

 

Oh like we give a **** about run on sentances here that would really make this a pain in the ass place to hang around if people started complaining about how certain sentences just seemed to go on and on I mean think about how that would totally ruin the great community we've created here on TSW and especially here on Off The Wall don't you think.?

[DrDawkinstein]

Oh like we give a **** about run on sentances here that would really make this a pain in the ass place to hang around if people started complaining about how certain sentences just seemed to go on and on I mean think about how that would totally ruin the great community we've created here on TSW and especially here on Off The Wall don't you think.?

 

ok, fine, i got lazy with the typing and actually had to do a few minutes of work here in the afternoon. better?!?

[RkFast]

Because you don't think it's illegal and that there are different rules for bikes and cars. The fact that you went bat **** crazy when I challenged you on this shows me you're just lilke the smug bastards who think they own the road on their bikes. Notice you're outnumbered in this thread?

 

Can you at least admit you break the law when your ride your bike?

 

Im "outnumbered" only becuase the majority of people posting on this thread havent been on a bike in about a decade.

 

From the get-go Ive stated that my opinion and manner in which I operate any one of my bikes has been one that follows TO THE LETTER how the original article spells it out. Direct from the article:

 

Bikes occupy a gray area of the law. They're neither cars nor pedestrians. Most states do carve out special laws for bikes, but not enough to avoid confusion. Take this scenario: I'm approaching a stop sign on my bike. There are clearly no cars coming from either direction. Do I come to a complete stop? Can I cautiously slide through? The traffic laws say full stop. But in practice, few bikers hit the brake, put their foot on the ground, and then start pedaling again. Are they criminals?

 

The D.C. Code recognizes the special status of bikes. Bikes shall follow all traffic laws, the code says, except for rules that "can have no reasonable application to a bicycle operator." Presumably, this refers to laws governing highways, some sidewalks, and other non-bicycle-friendly turf. It doesn't apply to the stop-sign scenario, even though some bicycle advocates argue that stop signs "have no reasonable application to a bicycle operator."

 

The stop sign scenario above matches perfectly the one I described in my own experiences, too.

 

Based on speaking to and following the lead of many fellow cyclists I ride often with, some as advanced and experienced as having rode under their home Country's National flag in the Olympics and Cycling National Championships, and having read this, and many many articles on the subject, and having logged close to 4,000 miles/year on my own, Im comfortable that how I operate anby of my bikes, on the road or off it is in line with A) traffic law as it is currently intepreted and enforced and B) with keeping my safety and the safety of others in mind and C) common courtesy.

 

Ive NEVER in this thread advocated or excused stupid wrong-way riding, riding on sidewalks or ANY behavior that puts either the cyclists, the pedestrians or the driver's safety in ANY kind of jeopardy. Not once. The CLOSEST I came to that is tell inkman that he probably should of waited for the cyclist to pass him and even there, said that only becuase it was the cyclist, not inkman that was a selfish moron.

 

If thats not good enough for ya, theres nothing I can do.

[Beerball]

Im "outnumbered" only becuase the majority of people posting on this thread havent been on a bike in about a decade.

 

From the get-go Ive stated that my opinion and manner in which I operate any one of my bikes has been one that follows TO THE LETTER how the original article spells it out. Direct from the article:

 

Bikes occupy a gray area of the law. They're neither cars nor pedestrians. Most states do carve out special laws for bikes, but not enough to avoid confusion. Take this scenario: I'm approaching a stop sign on my bike. There are clearly no cars coming from either direction. Do I come to a complete stop? Can I cautiously slide through? The traffic laws say full stop. But in practice, few bikers hit the brake, put their foot on the ground, and then start pedaling again. Are they criminals?

 

The D.C. Code recognizes the special status of bikes. Bikes shall follow all traffic laws, the code says, except for rules that "can have no reasonable application to a bicycle operator." Presumably, this refers to laws governing highways, some sidewalks, and other non-bicycle-friendly turf. It doesn't apply to the stop-sign scenario, even though some bicycle advocates argue that stop signs "have no reasonable application to a bicycle operator."

 

The stop sign scenario above matches perfectly the one I described in my own experiences, too.

 

Based on speaking to and following the lead of many fellow cyclists I ride often with, some as advanced and experienced as having rode under their home Country's National flag in the Olympics and Cycling National Championships, and having read this, and many many articles on the subject, and having logged close to 4,000 miles/year on my own, Im comfortable that how I operate anby of my bikes, on the road or off it is in line with A) traffic law as it is currently intepreted and enforced and B) with keeping my safety and the safety of others in mind and C) common courtesy.

 

If thats not good enough for ya, theres nothing I can do, nor do I care.

so you're saying you wouldn't ignore a stop sign or red light in your car?

 

(one idea you might consider...when trying to determine whether it's ok for someone on a bike to break traffic laws...don't ask another bike rider)

[BUFFALOTONE]

And yet your wife is pregnant?

 

Hmmm, where were you approximately 7 months ago???

[BUFFALOTONE]

I'm sorry you missed my joke. And if you child comes out with dark hair and glasses you're right, we've never met.

 

I got it.

 

And yes I will be making a trip west to "visit."