RkFast Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hey Jim......for the most part, I agree with you. The only place where we part company is the fact that you STILL, for some idiotic reason....think I condone and agree with the practice of blowing through lights and stop signs with no sense of safety or courtesy. I do not now, nor EVER say that I condone cyclists emplying such behavior. The only time I said I did, was as a completely sarcastic response to this thread going south. So, for some crazy reason, Im going to try and restate my postion here again. I hope maybe THIS TIME, youll read and understand. Here goes...... Approaching the red light: Regarding lights and stop signs, it goes like this....You come to a light. You stop or slow to a standing roll. If there is traffic at the light, you 100% stop, unclip and even move to the side of the road so that traffic that might be making a right turn can do so. This is how its done. ALL THE TIME. NOW....if there is no traffic at light, such as early in the AM...or if there was traffic and and ALL of it passes and there is CLEARLY no more in sight approaching the intersection....and it is 100% safe to proceed, then we typically will make the judgement that its safe to move forward and proceed before the light turns green for car traffic. If there is ANY indication that traffic will approach or that proceed through a light could cause ANY problem for either us or car traffic, we will wait out the light until it is green. But what if the light turns red right as we approach it? If thats the case, then we will make our presense known to whatever traffic is in the intersection, most likely by making eye contact with the driver, and make the call to proceed on through or stop, depending on whether or not the traffic is going to allow us to proceed or not. 90% of the time the car traffic will wave us on by....just like a driver might pause at a green light to allow a pedestrian to finish crossing the street, or maybe allow someone to pull out of a driveway. We NEVER just plow right on through a red light like we own the road. EVER. PERIOD. Clear? So your other talk about mindlesly blowing lights rergardless of the traffic conditions, riding the wrong way down streets and on sidewalks? There is no place for that. Ever. Period. I dont know how I could be clearer on that. If these idiotic types are the ONLY cyclists you EVER come across, Im sorry. They piss me off as much as they do you. My original point....waaaaaay back in this thread, was to try and point out that we arent all like this and although our opinions on what traffic rules cyclists are beholden to differ a bit, most, myself included operate with both safety and courtesy to others as a primary concern. We LIVE by the creed of "Share the Road" and are WELL aware that its a two-way street, no pun intended. Look, man...Im well aware that one wrong move and Im dead. All that talk about outrunning cars was just bravado. Ive gone down and have had more than one friend go down and wind up close to dead due to being being drilled by a car. Want to know what crashing on a bike is like? Seriously? Get in your casr, strip down to your underwear, get up to about 35 MPH, open your car door...and jump out. Thats what its like. And it !@#$ing suuuuuuuucks. You reallllly think I want to risk my safety and that of others? Seriously? You think Im so "smug" that Id operate in a dangerous way and risk eating my meals through a straw or worse, leaving my kid fatherless? Come on now. Be serious. And the fact that lots of people in this thread are having a ball stating they would ENJOY taking a cyclist down.....Im sorry, thats !@#$ing scary. Even if you come across some moronic hipster acting like an ass, the answer is drilling him with your car? What the !@#$ is wrong with you people? Finally, regarding whats going on in Brooklyn, I think the whole thing is sad. Sad that the Hipsters and Hasidm are acting so self-important and sad that the City is being so hamfisted about a solution. Here is some good persepctive from a great blogger. And yes, his name is......SNOB: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/ I hope this clears it up once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 You think a cyclist coming to a traffic light, looking both ways, then rolling through it at five in the morning with no vehicular traffic within a fifteen mile radius is an example of "smugness," so who are YOU to comment? Until one morning a car comes out of nowhere WITH THE RIGHT OF WAY and crushes the bike doing the "Hollywood" stop. If I did it with a motor vehicle, it would be smug. Start putting camera's at the lights like they ticket cars for at 0500 and not other traffic around. Yet, first they would have to have some way of identifying the bicycle. Bicycles should be ticketed just like cars... No "Hollywood" stops. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 No you schmuck I think a cyclist coming to a traffic light and blowing through it (you know that's what you do...so did I when I rode a bike) but saying they don't break the rules is smugness. I think cyclist riding on the sidewalk and ringing their little bells so WE can get out of THEIR way is smugness. I think that cyclists running a red light and almost getting hit by a car and then flipping off that car is smugness. I think that a shitload of bikers taking over city streets once a month and not obeying any traffic laws while they do so is smugness. I think that cyclist demanding that cars share the road but don't share the road with pedestrians is smugness. And lastly I thing that repainting bike lanes in the middle of the night after the city government decided that the area was not safe for bike lanes it the epitome of smugness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 But what if the light turns red right as we approach it? If thats the case, then we will make our presense known to whatever traffic is in the intersection, most likely by making eye contact with the driver, and make the call to proceed on through or stop, depending on whether or not the traffic is going to allow us to proceed or not. 90% of the time the car traffic will wave us on by....just like a driver might pause at a green light to allow a pedestrian to finish crossing the street, or maybe allow someone to pull out of a driveway. A bicycle should be prepared to stop SAFELY (Red part above). Did you ever hear of a "stale green." Should apply the same for a bicycle or anybody else on the road. Slow down and be prepared to stop even if you have the green because one knows it is or MAY be "stale." A stale green light means that the green traffic light cycle has almost ended and will change to yellow at any moment. One way to tell if it is a stale green is to look at the pedestrian crossing light, if it is flashing do not walk or is solid do not walk it could be a stale green. Bicycles not knowing what a stale green is also smugness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 A bicycle should be prepared to stop SAFELY (Red part above). Did you ever hear of a "stale green." Should apply the same for a bicycle or anybody else on the road. Slow down and be prepared to stop even if you have the green because one knows it is or MAY be "stale." A stale green light means that the green traffic light cycle has almost ended and will change to yellow at any moment. One way to tell if it is a stale green is to look at the pedestrian crossing light, if it is flashing do not walk or is solid do not walk it could be a stale green. Bicycles not knowing what a stale green is also smugness. Ill say it again... We NEVER just plow right on through a red light like we own the road. EVER. PERIOD. Ill add some more....EVERY traffic light approached regardless of its state, the leader of the group (or me, if solo) has the responsibility of evaluating the intersection sitation and judging whether to proceed at speed or prepare the group to stop/yield. If clear, s/he informs the group to proceed wit ha loud shout of "clear!" or tells the group to stop with a warning such as "car left, car right, car back or car forward." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Ill say it again... We NEVER just plow right on through a red light like we own the road. EVER. PERIOD. Ill add some more....EVERY traffic light approached regardless of its state, the leader of the group (or me, if solo) has the responsibility of evaluating the intersection sitation and judging whether to proceed at speed or prepare the group to stop/yield. If clear, s/he informs the group to proceed wit ha loud shout of "clear!" or tells the group to stop with a warning such as "car left, car right, car back or car forward." I understand. But, that is stupid. Sometimes the whole group can't make it through. EVERYBODY has to evalute. One doesn't go down the road in a pack. I mean, do you actually think the group should be able to make it through as a whole each and every time? This ain't a funeral procession! What you say is a recipe for disaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I understand. But, that is stupid. Sometimes the whole group can't make it through. EVERYBODY has to evalute. One doesn't go down the road in a pack. I mean, do you actually think the group should be able to make it through as a whole each and every time? This ain't a funeral procession! What you say is a recipe for disaster! The guys at the front have the primary responsibility but youve got a good point and YES...the groups sometimes split. Also depends on the size of the group...if its less than five, youre all making the light. More than that and yes, it often splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 The guys at the front have the primary responsibility but youve got a good point and YES...the groups sometimes split. Also depends on the size of the group...if its less than five, youre all making the light. More than that and yes, it often splits. I understand... You seem like a sensible cyclist Rk... But for one of you, there are dozens of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Ill say it again... We NEVER just plow right on through a red light like we own the road. EVER. PERIOD. Ill add some more....EVERY traffic light approached regardless of its state, the leader of the group (or me, if solo) has the responsibility of evaluating the intersection sitation and judging whether to proceed at speed or prepare the group to stop/yield. If clear, s/he informs the group to proceed wit ha loud shout of "clear!" or tells the group to stop with a warning such as "car left, car right, car back or car forward." What the hell are you evaluating? Red light? Stop. Green light? Go. Yeah that's right, you don't condone breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 What the hell are you evaluating? Red light? Stop. Green light? Go. Yeah that's right, you don't condone breaking the law. I don't know... On a bike, a rider has to evaluate a stale green and the intersection more... AT SPEED, one can't stop on a dime without ditching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 What the hell are you evaluating? Red light? Stop. Green light? Go. Yeah that's right, you don't condone breaking the law. Sorta like that person doing the speed limit in the "fast lane" huh? Lay off RK. I realize you are just messing with him, but c'mon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Sorta like that person doing the speed limit in the "fast lane" huh? Lay off RK. I realize you are just messing with him, but c'mon. Hey little stalker how are you? Lay off RK? I guess you two have a common enemy so I guess I can undersand your saying that. To you I'm a POS and to him I'm a douche. Pretty funny...no actually pretty sad, you're sticking up for just because of me. Looks like I've created a couple of BFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hey little stalker how are you? Lay off RK? I guess you two have a common enemy so I guess I can undersand your saying that. To you I'm a POS and to him I'm a douche. Pretty funny...no actually pretty sad, you're sticking up for just because of me. Actually, my issue with you is you are a hypocrite. The fact that RK and I disagree on pretty much everything has little to do with it as I find you do this to a variety of people. You commonly bust people’s balls about things they care about, even when you are guilty of very similar things. Maybe you are a made up character, but if that is the case, reroll as your made up persona sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Actually, my issue with you is you are a hypocrite. The fact that RK and I disagree on pretty much everything has little to do with it as I find you do this to a variety of people. You commonly bust people’s balls about things they care about, even when you are guilty of very similar things. Maybe you are a made up character, but if that is the case, reroll as your made up persona sucks. I think we all can be accused of being hypocrites at some point but the fact that you follow me around to point it out every time I bust peoples balls about something they care about (so RK is passionate about running red lights?) is pretty sad and pathetic. But really glad I could bring to two together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I think we all can be accused of being hypocrites at some point but the fact that you follow me around to point it out every time I bust peoples balls about something they care about (so RK is passionate about running red lights?) is pretty sad and pathetic. But really glad I could bring to two together. I just want you to see how it feels, but glad you are such a stand up conservative hardass that you whine when it is done to you. One thread, and few posts over a couple of months and you start crying like a little girl. Btw you typo like mad. P.S. He happens to like to ride bikes, but you knew that. You are so much better at this game when you are on the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Thanks, Booster. Im sorry I dragged you into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I just want you to see how it feels, but glad you are such a stand up conservative hardass that you whine when it is done to you. One thread, and few posts over a couple of months and you start crying like a little girl. Btw you typo like mad. P.S. He happens to like to ride bikes, but you knew that. You are so much better at this game when you are on the attack. Yup he likes to ride bikes and since I've moved to SF I've learned to despise bikers. So much that even though I know riding a bike would be good exercise I have not bought a bike just as not to be the hypocrite you accuse me of being. Oh and thanks for pointing out the fact that I have typos in my posts. I'll work on that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yup he likes to ride bikes and since I've moved to SF I've learned to despise bikers. So much that even though I know riding a bike would be good exercise I have not bought a bike just as not to be the hypocrite you accuse me of being. Oh and thanks for pointing out the fact that I have typos in my posts. I'll work on that for you. Actually, you would be a hypocrite for speeding in the "fast lane" while simultaneously giving someone crap for going cautiously through a stop sign without a complete stop when there is no traffic around. But you knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Actually, you would be a hypocrite for speeding in the "fast lane" while simultaneously giving someone crap for going cautiously through a stop sign without a complete stop when there is no traffic around. But you knew that. Of course I knew that you little weasle. But thanks for point that out again. See at least I admit when I'm a hypocrite and I admit when I break the law and I don't hide behind some bikers "written rule" that allows them to break the law based on certain conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Of course I knew that you little weasle. But thanks for point that out again. See at least I admit when I'm a hypocrite and I admit when I break the law and I don't hide behind some bikers "written rule" that allows them to break the law based on certain conditions. That is weasel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts