ExiledInIllinois Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Has anybody brought this up with the regard to manufacturing in the US. However health care gets changed, the fact of the matter is that it CAN'T remain as it is in this country Critical Costs In its analysis of the report, the Manufacturers Alliance/MAPI outlines the following four hurdles for manufacturing competitiveness, investment and job creation: •Corporate Tax Rates — The U.S. currently has one of the highest corporate tax rates among its major trading partners, second only to Japan's. At a 40 percent statutory rate, corporate taxes have not kept pace with falling levels in other developed countries, the report claims. •Health Care Costs — Manufacturers struggle under U.S. health care costs, which are some of the most expensive in the world relative to the size of the country's economy. According to the report, at the current rate, one in five dollars would be spent on health care by 2015 unless a more cost-effective solution is found for businesses. •Regulatory Compliance Costs — Manufacturing companies spend an estimated $162 billion each year to meet economic, environmental and workplace safety regulations, which is the equivalent of a 12 percent added tax. Many businesses advocate for a less expensive compliance solution. •Energy Prices and Availability — Manufacturers consume roughly one-third of America's power supplies. Because most of this energy comes from fossil fuels, particularly natural gas, rising fuel prices have elevated production costs as well. Improving the availability of secure, reliable and affordable energy is one of the top priorities for manufacturing. IMO, along with corp tax rates, health care costs seem the best way to fix things and the FIRST thing to fix on this list of out-of-wack costs. Those health care cost can go hand in hand with corp taxes. Look at Japan, they have the higehest corp taxes yet balance the equation out with socialized medicine. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 •Health Care Costs — Manufacturers struggle under U.S. health care costs, which are some of the most expensive in the world relative to the size of the country's economy. According to the report, at the current rate, one in five dollars would be spent on health care by 2015 unless a more cost-effective solution is found for businesses.Thoughts? Stop forcing employers to be in the healthcare business. They aren't required to provide auto, homeowners' and life are they? It should be an individual expense like everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Stop forcing employers to be in the healthcare business. They aren't required to provide auto, homeowners' and life are they? It should be an individual expense like everything else. The how do we compete with a countries that do provide health... Like Japan... A country does need a healthy workforce... No? It is part of the equation, like it or not... Unless you change the rest of the socialized world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Has anybody brought this up with the regard to manufacturing in the US. However health care gets changed, the fact of the matter is that it CAN'T remain as it is in this country Critical Costs In its analysis of the report, the Manufacturers Alliance/MAPI outlines the following four hurdles for manufacturing competitiveness, investment and job creation: •Corporate Tax Rates — The U.S. currently has one of the highest corporate tax rates among its major trading partners, second only to Japan's. At a 40 percent statutory rate, corporate taxes have not kept pace with falling levels in other developed countries, the report claims. •Health Care Costs — Manufacturers struggle under U.S. health care costs, which are some of the most expensive in the world relative to the size of the country's economy. According to the report, at the current rate, one in five dollars would be spent on health care by 2015 unless a more cost-effective solution is found for businesses. •Regulatory Compliance Costs — Manufacturing companies spend an estimated $162 billion each year to meet economic, environmental and workplace safety regulations, which is the equivalent of a 12 percent added tax. Many businesses advocate for a less expensive compliance solution. •Energy Prices and Availability — Manufacturers consume roughly one-third of America's power supplies. Because most of this energy comes from fossil fuels, particularly natural gas, rising fuel prices have elevated production costs as well. Improving the availability of secure, reliable and affordable energy is one of the top priorities for manufacturing. IMO, along with corp tax rates, health care costs seem the best way to fix things and the FIRST thing to fix on this list of out-of-wack costs. Those health care cost can go hand in hand with corp taxes. Look at Japan, they have the higehest corp taxes yet balance the equation out with socialized medicine. Thoughts? Reducing health care costs would be positive. Too bad the plans that are being proposed will raise costs, and that under Obama's regime taxes will go up, it is inevitable, and he is opposed to funding for the expansion of nuclear energy and offshore drilling, which of course would be a source of "secure, reliable and affordable energy". Not to mention Cap and trade is going to devastate the coal mining industry. We're screwed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Reducing health care costs would be positive. Too bad the plans that are being proposed will raise costs, and that under Obama's regime taxes will go up, it is inevitable, and he is opposed to funding for the expansion of nuclear energy and offshore drilling, which of course would be a source of "secure, reliable and affordable energy". Not to mention Cap and trade is going to devastate the coal mining industry. We're screwed!!! Wow... You just killed this thread. I disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 The how do we compete with a countries that do provide health... Like Japan... A country does need a healthy workforce... No? It is part of the equation, like it or not... Unless you change the rest of the socialized world. Japan is an odd example to choose. They have a hodge-podge system. They do *not* have universal health care (despite what Democrats say about the world), *nor* is insurance uniformly offered by companies. Instead, what characterizes the Japanese system is that (1) it is mandatory to have insurance, and (2) there is no public option per se (but there is a plan available for students and the self-employed). So I would describe it as closest to our system, but tweaked a bit and with mandatory enrollment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wow... You just killed this thread. I disagree! I am very comfortable with the idea of you disagreeing with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Japan is an odd example to choose. They have a hodge-podge system. They do *not* have universal health care (despite what Democrats say about the world), *nor* is insurance uniformly offered by companies. Instead, what characterizes the Japanese system is that (1) it is mandatory to have insurance, and (2) there is no public option per se (but there is a plan available for students and the self-employed). So I would describe it as closest to our system, but tweaked a bit and with mandatory enrollment. Regarding this mandatory coverage that people keep throwing out there. What about those that do not believe in the current health care system and choose not to participate such as Christian Science followers, alternative medicine advocates? Why should they be forced to participate in something they don't believe in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Regarding this mandatory coverage that people keep throwing out there. What about those that do not believe in the current health care system and choose not to participate such as Christian Science followers, alternative medicine advocates? Why should they be forced to participate in something they don't believe in? Because it's only an intrusion into your personal life if we're talking about abortion. Otherwise, we only need to be concerned with the "greater good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Regarding this mandatory coverage that people keep throwing out there. What about those that do not believe in the current health care system and choose not to participate such as Christian Science followers, alternative medicine advocates? Why should they be forced to participate in something they don't believe in? I brought that up months ago. No one answered. It gets more complicated with alternative medicine advocates, because they would argue that homeopathy or naturopathy IS medicine, and should be covered under a public plan. Only way around that is to have the government determine what is and is not "medical care". But that's not socialized medicine, no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I think it's awesome that people continue to cite a whole bunch of facts without knowing any of the "nuts and bolts" of same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Japan is an odd example to choose. They have a hodge-podge system. They do *not* have universal health care (despite what Democrats say about the world), *nor* is insurance uniformly offered by companies. Instead, what characterizes the Japanese system is that (1) it is mandatory to have insurance, and (2) there is no public option per se (but there is a plan available for students and the self-employed). So I would describe it as closest to our system, but tweaked a bit and with mandatory enrollment. Since I work and my employer offers health, I think it is mandatory that I carry health insurance through my employer... Since I have children. ?? I know Minnesota makes it mandatory if you have children... A co-worker I know had to pick-up coverage with the employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Regarding this mandatory coverage that people keep throwing out there. What about those that do not believe in the current health care system and choose not to participate such as Christian Science followers, alternative medicine advocates? Why should they be forced to participate in something they don't believe in? Good question. See my post above... The guy I know that came to work where I work was made to carry because he has a child in MN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Good question. See my post above... The guy I know that came to work where I work was made to carry because he has a child in MN. So in Mn if you have children they force you to have insurance but they don't force you to make sure you can take care of children before you even have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 So in Mn if you have children they force you to have insurance but they don't force you to make sure you can take care of children before you even have them. I guess so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 [quote name='KD in CT' date='Oct 19 2009, 10:22 PM' post='1607191' It should be an individual expense like everything else. Strange, but NO OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD feels the way you do about medical care for its citizens. Apparently YOU are the only one in the world with this thought. I'm guessing you are wrong on the"individual expense" notion. Also, no one is "forcing" employers to offer health insurance now. Many companies don't. You see, awhile ago it was decided that making health benefits not subject to federal tax would help employers attract employees. Obviously this worked well for a time , but is now antiquated and cannot keep up with the costs. There are probably more applicants than jobs today as well. The system is outdated, period. Something needs to change. However the bills in congress are inadequate and do nothing to address the problem :cost. We pay a lot of money for a system that doesn't cover everybody, is too expensive, and supports a "leach" industry that is largely irrelevant- insurance companies. They collect money, make a huge profit by deciding who gets care and who doesn't, and does not provide a service related to actual health care. This is obviously inefficient and that is why no other country does it this way. Unless we completely eliminate the health "insurance" industry and go to single payer government run health care, we are putting lipstick on a pig. The insurance industry went along with the "public option" until the penalty for not purchasing private insurance was decided to be too weak. Translation: All those guaranteed new customers you were giving us are not going to be young healthy folks that we'll be robbing blind..they will include people who may actually...GULP.. use their insurance! No way! See? Health care is unlike most other businesses and should not be run, morally anyway (and I'm an atheist) as a for profit industry. The only people making any profit should be the health care providers (i.e. doctors, nurses and any other medical professionals) everything else should be done by the government for the good of its people. Period. Right now, health care in this country in rationed according to income levels and social status. That is wrong. (And yes, I have very good insurance). However, in this case neither party has it right. Blow up the whole system now, or let it continue its death spiral of rising costs until the majority of citizens DON'T have it . Then it will change to a more civilized way of doing things. By and large the system everywhere else works. Can the entire rest of the civilized nations of the world be wrong? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Strange, but NO OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD feels the way you do about medical care for its citizens. Then there well be plenty of places for smart people like you to move to. See ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 We pay a lot of money for a system that doesn't cover everybody, is too expensive, and supports a "leach" industry that is largely irrelevant- insurance companies. They collect money, make a huge profit by deciding who gets care and who doesn't, and does not provide a service related to actual health care. That's not true, facts are facts, and you can't deny this:http://www.benzinga.com/29300/health-insur...rage-per-policy As I reported several months ago the industry "Health Care Plans" (includes Humana, Aetna, WellPoint, Magellan, etc.) ranks #86 by profit margin at only 3.3% (see table above, data here for the most recent quarter), not exactly strong evidence of "excessive profits" or monopoly power. Four health insurance companies (Molina, Health Net, Coventry, and Universal American) have profit margins below 1% for the most recent quarter, and another four (Humana, Magellan, WellCare and Centene) have profit margins between 1 and 2 percent (data here). America's Health Insurance Plan, the industry's trade association, recently reported that annual health insurance premiums averaged $2,985 for individual coverage and $6,328 for family plans in 2009. Using the industry average profit margin of 3.3% means that insurance companies make less than $100 per policy in profits for individual coverage, and a little more than $200 in profits for each family policy. Doesn't seem too "excessive" or an indication of monopoly power, does it? If you don't believe that source, how about this one: http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/08/health...anks-86-by.html or this one from Yahoo: http://biz.yahoo.com/p/522qpmd.html so before you keep spreading "misinformation" I suggest that you study up before you make wild, populist accusations that have no merit. Right now, health care in this country in rationed according to income levels and social status. That is wrong. (And yes, I have very good insurance). However, in this case neither party has it right. Blow up the whole system now, or let it continue its death spiral of rising costs until the majority of citizens DON'T have it . Then it will change to a more civilized way of doing things. By and large the system everywhere else works. Can the entire rest of the civilized nations of the world be wrong? Seriously? Well, you are in the minority, in fact, the overwhelming majority of people are happy with their health insurance: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thegaggle/a...-insurance.aspx According to Gallup poll: Gallup has today released some analysis on public perceptions of health insurers based on polls conducted from 2006-08. The data cuts to the heart of why the the President is having such difficulty in selling plans to reform health insurance: public or private, people like their health insurance. According to Gallup's data, 87% of people with private insurance and 82% of people on Medicare or Medicaid say that the quality of their health care is excellent or good. Similarly, 75% of those with private plans and 74% on government-run plans rate their insurance plan as excellent or good. It's hard to convince people that change is necessary when they are pretty content with how things are, which is part of the reason Obama's job is so hard. hmm, seems as if your view isn't shared by most. But I'm glad you made this post, I'm here to inform and educate those who don't know the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hey Magox.. Nice try, but where did I say I wasn't happy with MY health care? Before you put words in my mouth, try reading the post. And why have a profit margin for an insurance company at all? Those companies you mentioned, by the way I've mostly never heard of, but they must be pretty well managed. I don't believe a government run entity would pay millions to a CEO, though. And why, if all health insurance runs on such a slim profit margin(allegedly), do their annual increases outpace inflation by so much? Yes the quality of care we get here is good. The health care PROVIDERS are not the problem. The problem is a cottage industry leaching off society. I don't give a crap if you are a Dem or Repub or whatever. The facts are the facts and we can't run away from it. Costs keep going up as set by the insurance industry so they can profit. Compensation,(wages) if you haven't noticed is going down in real dollars. Companies no longer wish to participate, and are passing more and more of the costs to employees. Only slightly more than half of companies now offer health insurance to their workers. If we do nothing (which apparently you wish to do), the status quo continues and eats up more and more of employees compensation. Companies will continue to drop coverage. What is your answer? "Do nothing, most people are happy with their health CARE" Right, because they are getting CARE. Ask them if they are happy with the COST of their insurance, however and I think you'll get a different response. I like my care, but I can envision a day when it isn't there, or when the cost is so exorbitant that it is unaffordable. Fortunately I am a government employee, my coverage is probably better than yours. But I know doing nothing is not an option. It's not political at all. Just facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Then there well be plenty of places for smart people like you to move to. See ya. Ha HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Boy is that an original response." See Ya..."like you OWN the F**kin' country or something. As it is impossible to think that perhaps something in the good ol' US of A might be wrong. "you don't like it..err well ,uh, uh, you..you MOVE or something yeah! Yeah, that's it , you that don't agree just get the hell outta here or or or else something... Deep thinker there...bunghole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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