Jason Peters watch

[iinii]

Doubt all you want. Anyone who doesn't realize that LT play directly affects QB play isn't getting the whole picture.

They should Directv then.

[Doc]

For someone who claims he doesn't really care much for Peters, you sure spend a LOT of time talking about/defending him Thurman. Not unlike a certain someone and team I know.

 

But my final word on the situation is that Peters showed himself to be unprofessional and incredibly egotistical. At first I supported him because he outplayed his contract and the Bills renegotiated Aaron Schobel's contract after 2 years. However I also said that he NEEDED to show-up to the team before getting his new contract, like Schobel did, and especially given that he'd shredded his groin in the penultimate game of the 2007 season. Not only did he not show up, at all, he wasn't ready to start the season from a conditioning standpoint. Yet the Bills still won games. And when his play supposedly improved later in the season, the Bills started losing games, and he was abused by players like Porter and Abram Elam for game-changing sacks. Then his embarrassing PC with the Eagles revealed what a chump he was and it made the decision to trade him an easy one for the Bills.

 

Had Peters showed-up over the off-season, or played like a Pro Bowler from the opening snap like Walter Jones did routinely, or shown that he actually gave a damn, he'd still be a Buffalo Bill today. He didn't, and his contract demands were ridiculous, so the Bills shipped him off and got a great deal for him, without tying-up 10% of their salary cap.

 

And again there is no game this year where Peters' presence would have made a difference. While Bell hasn't been good, the plays have been there and Trent has failed to capitalize on them. And the ST's, as noted, have directly led to 2 losses. On the flip side, the Eagles needed Peters against the Raiders, and he pulled-up lame. Although reportedly he could have gone back in the game "if they really needed him."

 

This situation reminds me of when the Bills let Jonas Jennings walk (for nothing). More than a few people here whined about what a mistake the Bills made. We'll see if this situation proves to be any different.

[Bill from NYC]

And again there is no game this year where Peters' presence would have made a difference.

 

This my friend could be a bit of a reach. One extra first fown on the ground could have changed things at NE.

 

Nobody wants the following to be wrong more than I, but imo, Perers on the worst day of his life is better than Bell on the best day of his life. I view Bell as an all or nothing player. He is very agile but inexperienced, reportedly weak (9 reps at the combines), prone to penalties, and already injured.

Will he be able to rectify all of the above? I hope so but odds tell us no.

 

I don't like what happened with Peters last season. He was out of shape, and playing next to a useless, unmotivated Dockery. Your analogy that he might take the money and run like Jennings is sound. I am merely stating that by any stretch of the imagination, Peters is 10x better than anything we have, and fwiw I already prefer Levitre to Dockery.

[Thurman#1]

It didn't have much affect last year. Or the year before, when he was arguably playing at a Pro Bowl level. Why would this year be any different?

 

 

 

Excuse me, but how do you know it didn't? Without him, conditions would have been much worse for our QBs, especially the year before when he was ABSOLUTELY playing at a Pro Bowl level.

 

The Bills QB situation sucks. Therefore we shouldn't bother to try to ever improve the QB or his protection - is that seriously your argument?

 

Last year Trent didn't have happy feet. This year he does. His completion rate has fallen considerably since last year. 10 INTs all year last year, 6 already this year. His yards per game are down. He has already been sacked 19 times this year, but was only sacked 23 times ALL of last year, average yards per attempt down quite a bit, QB rating way down. With another year of experience, another year of training camp, the addition of T.O. and Nelson and he has gotten worse.

 

I'm sure that none of that has anything to do with the huge downgrade in performance at the OL position most responsible for guarding not just the QB's body but his peace of mind ... oh, wait, the drugs are wearing off ... that is a huge factor most likely. Nothing shakes a QB up like blindside hits.

[Thurman#1]

For someone who claims he doesn't really care much for Peters, you sure spend a LOT of time talking about/defending him Thurman.

 

 

 

Why do you seem so amazed about this? What I care about is what is good for the Bills.

 

It is my belief that in ten years people will look back at that trade and say it was one of the worst personnel moves in Bills history. I don't have to like a guy to want the Bills to be successful. I want to hold the Bills feet to the fire for this (not to imply that they care what I think) and keep doing it.

 

And if I'm wrong (and if we get a top 10 LT this year or next, without having to spend an extremely high draft pick, I will consider this trade in a MUCH more positive light), I will admit it. But it sure doesn't look that way. So far, things are shaking out as I predicted, with us unable to field an NFL-level LT and with Peters absolutely kicking butt down in Philly.

[Doc]

This my friend could be a bit of a reach. One extra first fown on the ground could have changed things at NE.

If McKelvin hadn't fumbled against the Patriots, the Bills went 3-and-out, and the Patriots still proceeded to score the go-ahead TD, I would agree with you that one more first down could have sealed the game. And realistically, there are a lot of things that could be blamed for why they lost. As it stood, the Bills had a great chance to close-out the game had McKelvin not fumbled.

Nobody wants the following to be wrong more than I, but imo, Perers on the worst day of his life is better than Bell on the best day of his life. I view Bell as an all or nothing player. He is very agile but inexperienced, reportedly weak (9 reps at the combines), prone to penalties, and already injured.

Will he be able to rectify all of the above? I hope so but odds tell us no.

To be fair, Peters didn't start at OT until the 6th game of his 2nd season, and played at RT for the next 16 games until being moved to LT. Bell was also thrust-into the starting role unexpectedly and on the eve of the season, after missing 2 valuable weeks of pre-season. As I said, he hasn't been good, but he wasn't exactly put in a position to succeed. Nevermind the OC switch, which may or may not have been a mistake.

I don't like what happened with Peters last season. He was out of shape, and playing next to a useless, unmotivated Dockery. Your analogy that he might take the money and run like Jennings is sound. I am merely stating that by any stretch of the imagination, Peters is 10x better than anything we have, and fwiw I already prefer Levitre to Dockery.

Peters missing all that time and his attitude didn't help matters any, regardless of what went on with Dockery. Speaking of which, Dockery was the only player with whom Peters kept in-touch while he was holding-out. Perhaps both decided to mail-in the season in an attempt to get out of Buffalo? Seems plausible, although I don't know how Dockery is looking in Washington.

[dogbyte]

Why would Peters care anymore about being a Buffalo Bill? He received more money, went to a totally better organization, with a much better coaching staff and a owner that wants to win! It is the Bills FO that screwed up by bring in Dockery and Walker and paying them way more money than Peters! Why should Peters be upset, because he played a much tougher position and made the Pro Bowl, but had two other mediocre players getting rich while the Bills dragged their feet on a new deal! Peters position has become much more evident by the Bills cutting both players this year. The Eagles did not seem to mind trading for him and paying him what he wanted. The Eagles are in contention while the Bills are again floundering. I think that Peters is very happy he is out of Buffalo

[Thurman#1]

But my final word on the situation is that Peters showed himself to be unprofessional and incredibly egotistical. At first I supported him because he outplayed his contract and the Bills renegotiated Aaron Schobel's contract after 2 years. However I also said that he NEEDED to show-up to the team before getting his new contract, like Schobel did, and especially given that he'd shredded his groin in the penultimate game of the 2007 season. Not only did he not show up, at all, he wasn't ready to start the season from a conditioning standpoint. Yet the Bills still won games. And when his play supposedly improved later in the season, the Bills started losing games, and he was abused by players like Porter and Abram Elam for game-changing sacks. Then his embarrassing PC with the Eagles revealed what a chump he was and it made the decision to trade him an easy one for the Bills.

 

 

That press conference was embarrassing in the minds of about 20 people who hate Peters, and nobody else.

 

The Bills won games early because they played horrible team. They lost games later when Peters was playing badly because they were playing good teams. Putting the blame entirely on Peters is ridiculous. And it is equally ridiculous to say that because we can't win with a guy that he's no use to us. You could put Peyton Manning on this team and we wouldn't make the playoffs, not with our horribly injured defense and our pathetic OL, especially at LT. So by your logic, that means we don't have to bother to improve at QB.

 

Bottom line, when you have a good player, if you also have a bunch of below-standard players, you're still not going to win. But when you upgrade enough other positions that you don't have glaring weaknesses, suddenly your terrific players are in position to make a big difference, and especially players at key positions like LT.

 

 

10% of their salary cap.

 

10%? You'll have to tell me how $10.1 mill/ year for Peters is 10% of the salary cap of about $127 million. I'll be waiting to see that math. It's slightly below 8 percent where I come from. And how many teams around this league DON'T pay 8% of their salary cap to their best player? Relatively few. The top 25 salaries in the league this year are all $12 mill or above.

 

Peters is having a sensational year, and earning that salary. That is the bottom line.

 

 

 

And again there is no game this year where Peters' presence would have made a difference. While Bell hasn't been good, the plays have been there and Trent has failed to capitalize on them. And the ST's, as noted, have directly led to 2 losses. On the flip side, the Eagles needed Peters against the Raiders, and he pulled-up lame. Although reportedly he could have gone back in the game "if they really needed him."

 

Our QB has gotten worse this year with better weapons. And our LTs have been revolving doors. Peters would very possibly have saved Trent's psyche, which appears shattered right now. No way to tell, but there's no question that Trent has no confidence on any particular play that he will be standing after 3 seconds or that he will see the blow coming.

 

 

This situation reminds me of when the Bills let Jonas Jennings walk (for nothing). More than a few people here whined about what a mistake the Bills made. We'll see if this situation proves to be any different.

 

 

Yeah, 'cause our OL has been so terrific since we got rid of Jennings. Right.

 

Jennings was unlucky enough to have been injured, but if that had not happened (and if he had stayed with Rusty Jones, it might not have, though all bets were off once Rusty was out the door), the Jennings move would indeed be looked back on as horrific.

[Thurman#1]

Why would Peters care anymore about being a Buffalo Bill? He received more money, went to a totally better organization, with a much better coaching staff and a owner that wants to win! It is the Bills FO that screwed up by bring in Dockery and Walker and paying them way more money than Peters! Why should Peters be upset, because he played a much tougher position and made the Pro Bowl, but had two other mediocre players getting rich while the Bills dragged their feet on a new deal! Peters position has become much more evident by the Bills cutting both players this year. The Eagles did not seem to mind trading for him and paying him what he wanted. The Eagles are in contention while the Bills are again floundering. I think that Peters is very happy he is out of Buffalo

 

 

Yeah, indications are that he wanted to stay in Buffalo if he had gotten paid, but he has to be very happy indeed now.

[Nanker]

Continually witnessing self-flagellation is beyond boring.

[Thurman#1]

Peters missing all that time and his attitude didn't help matters any, regardless of what went on with Dockery. Speaking of which, Dockery was the only player with whom Peters kept in-touch while he was holding-out. Perhaps both decided to mail-in the season in an attempt to get out of Buffalo? Seems plausible, although I don't know how Dockery is looking in Washington.

 

 

 

Wow. No, you don't have anything against Peters. You don't hate him at all. You just think that it is "plausible" that he "decided to mail-in the season in an attempt to get out of Buffalo." Yeah, no hatred there. And then while mailing in the season became the second-best run-blocking LT in the league during that season ( footballoutsiders.com ).

 

No, no hatred there at all. Nothing but sweet reason.

[Doc]

Excuse me, but how do you know it didn't? Without him, conditions would have been much worse for our QBs, especially the year before when he was ABSOLUTELY playing at a Pro Bowl level.

 

The Bills QB situation sucks. Therefore we shouldn't bother to try to ever improve the QB or his protection - is that seriously your argument?

The Bills tried to improve the protection by jettisoning Dockery and Fowler/Preston and getting better players (Wood and Hangartner) in their positions, and by drafting the top-rated OG (Levitre). Also, Butler was playing well at RT before getting injured. They also added a top WR threat in TO to help Trent out. Paying Peters $10M/year after what he pulled last year, only to see him sit-out a good portion of the game like he did against Oakland wouldn't have helped anyone. And again his absence hasn't changed the team's W-L record.

Last year Trent didn't have happy feet. This year he does. His completion rate has fallen considerably since last year. 10 INTs all year last year, 6 already this year. His yards per game are down. He has already been sacked 19 times this year, but was only sacked 23 times ALL of last year, average yards per attempt down quite a bit, QB rating way down. With another year of experience, another year of training camp, the addition of T.O. and Nelson and he has gotten worse.

 

I'm sure that none of that has anything to do with the huge downgrade in performance at the OL position most responsible for guarding not just the QB's body but his peace of mind ... oh, wait, the drugs are wearing off ... that is a huge factor most likely. Nothing shakes a QB up like blindside hits.

LOL! Trent had happy feet and was playing like crap after that 5-1 start last year, again when Peters allegedly was rounding-into Pro Bowl form.

[Doc]

Why do you seem so amazed about this? What I care about is what is good for the Bills.

 

It is my belief that in ten years people will look back at that trade and say it was one of the worst personnel moves in Bills history. I don't have to like a guy to want the Bills to be successful. I want to hold the Bills feet to the fire for this (not to imply that they care what I think) and keep doing it.

 

And if I'm wrong (and if we get a top 10 LT this year or next, without having to spend an extremely high draft pick, I will consider this trade in a MUCH more positive light), I will admit it. But it sure doesn't look that way. So far, things are shaking out as I predicted, with us unable to field an NFL-level LT and with Peters absolutely kicking butt down in Philly.

Have you been "holding the Bills feet to the fire" for getting rid of Pat Williams? At least Williams has proven to be a big mistake on the Bills' part. Peters so far hasn't.

[Doc]

That press conference was embarrassing in the minds of about 20 people who hate Peters, and nobody else.

You should have read what some Eagles fans thought of it.

 

The Bills won games early because they played horrible team. They lost games later when Peters was playing badly because they were playing good teams. Putting the blame entirely on Peters is ridiculous. And it is equally ridiculous to say that because we can't win with a guy that he's no use to us. You could put Peyton Manning on this team and we wouldn't make the playoffs, not with our horribly injured defense and our pathetic OL, especially at LT. So by your logic, that means we don't have to bother to improve at QB.

 

Bottom line, when you have a good player, if you also have a bunch of below-standard players, you're still not going to win. But when you upgrade enough other positions that you don't have glaring weaknesses, suddenly your terrific players are in position to make a big difference, and especially players at key positions like LT.

I'm not putting blame on Peters so much as I'm saying that his presence made little difference to the team's fortunes last year. There's a big difference there. And I guess you haven't read my posts, but I've been wanting the Bills to improve at QB for awhile now.

10%? You'll have to tell me how $10.1 mill/ year for Peters is 10% of the salary cap of about $127 million. I'll be waiting to see that math. It's slightly below 8 percent where I come from. And how many teams around this league DON'T pay 8% of their salary cap to their best player? Relatively few. The top 25 salaries in the league this year are all $12 mill or above.

 

Peters is having a sensational year, and earning that salary. That is the bottom line.

The Bills' actual money spent ("cash to cap") this year is around $100M. Let's see, 10 divided by 100 is...yep, 10%! Tying up 1/10th of the money spent on 1 player, especially a player who will put forth a weak effort when he feels he's not getting paid enough, is foolish.

 

And the season isn't even a third over for the Eagles, and they've lost 2 games, one which they should have won and probably could have if Peters stayed healthy and/or gutted-it-out. The NFC East looks tight this year and every lost game is a missed opportunity. Moreover, what makes you think he would have stayed completely healthy in Buffalo, when he hasn't the past 2 years?

Yeah, 'cause our OL has been so terrific since we got rid of Jennings. Right.

 

Jennings was unlucky enough to have been injured, but if that had not happened (and if he had stayed with Rusty Jones, it might not have, though all bets were off once Rusty was out the door), the Jennings move would indeed be looked back on as horrific.

Ah, a "what if" scenario. Yes Thurman, IF Jennings hadn't gotten injured, it would have been a bad move. Guess what ended-up happening? How would the Bills' O-line have looked if they paid Jennings all that money?

 

I guess the best we can say to each other is "we'll see how this plays out eventually." But Peters living up to that $10M/year deal is going to be awfully tough for him, given his past history.

[Thurman#1]

Paying Peters $10M/year after what he pulled last year, only to see him sit-out a good portion of the game like he did against Oakland wouldn't have helped anyone.

 

 

Nobody but Trent.

[Thurman#1]

To be fair, Peters didn't start at OT until the 6th game of his 2nd season, and played at RT for the next 16 games until being moved to LT. Bell was also thrust-into the starting role unexpectedly and on the eve of the season, after missing 2 valuable weeks of pre-season. As I said, he hasn't been good, but he wasn't exactly put in a position to succeed. Nevermind the OC switch, which may or may not have been a mistake.

 

 

To be even fairer, Peters had not ever taken a snap on the OL in college, and then in the pros not until after his first season. He came to training camp in his second year and started learning about playing the line. After that training camp and six games of watching during the regular season, he started and was very good right from his first game.

 

I do agree that Bell hasn't been put in position to succeed. Bell was basically a project, and should have been allowed to develop another year or two before we find out whether he will be able to handle the position.

[Thurman#1]

Continually witnessing self-flagellation is beyond boring.

 

 

 

A high percentage of oysters have never been caught speeding.

[Thurman#1]

Have you been "holding the Bills feet to the fire" for getting rid of Pat Williams? At least Williams has proven to be a big mistake on the Bills' part. Peters so far hasn't.

 

 

 

The entire board has been doing that for Williams.

 

Peters hasn't been proven a mistake yet? Man, it's getting awfully close. If we had a good replacement, it would still be very much up in the air. We don't, and Peters is playing sensationally. I suppose "proven" is a bit strong, you're right, but it's about 80% of the way there.

[Thurman#1]

You should have read what some Eagles fans thought of it.

 

 

I'm sure there were a few loons. There always are. But the huge majority of Eagles nation simply didn't have a problem with it. In fact, they thought it showed commitment that in spite of an injury he was willing to play if he had to.

 

Where is the massive outcry? There simply is none, except among the haters here in Buffalo.

[Flbillsfan#1]

The entire board has been doing that for Williams.

 

Peters hasn't been proven a mistake yet? Man, it's getting awfully close. If we had a good replacement, it would still be very much up in the air. We don't, and Peters is playing sensationally. I suppose "proven" is a bit strong, you're right, but it's about 80% of the way there.

If you call STANDING on the sideline while your team LOSES playing sensationally, then yeah Peters is playing sensationally.