birdog1960 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 Slightly off topic, but what makes Ralph tick? I don't quite understand how he values different things and makes his decisions. His franchise is worth hundreds of millions and he has more money than he and his entire family could spend in many generations. More power to him, but why is the highest bidder and estate taxes among his key considerations? Why does saving a couple million on an inferior head coach make sense to him? I'm just wondering where the total lack of Jerry Jones / George Steinbrenner / Mark Cuban / Art Moreno comes from. I guess he has made himself a small market advocate and that probably is a source of joy for him more than winning or competing each year would be... My guess would be narcissistic personality disorder though most if not all of the names mentioned are likely afflicted (but not as much as those who are unfortunate enough to have contact with them). RW craves admiration, power and money and a small market is a small pond in which to be a fish. He is inherently frugal (probably from living through the depression) and net worth is a much higher priority than football success. If you're not into psychobabble, he may just be a miserly, old, self obsessed cuss. The C.M. Burns character from the Simpsons is truly an apt caricature: "one dollar for eternal happiness. I'd rather have the dollar".
JohnC Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 if I was Ralph's age, I would think about my mark on the world, which honestly is: The Buffalo Bills. The stadium is named after him, the field house is named after him, the team and the facility was created with his vision. It is highly visible throughout the country, world, and is a huge part of life in Western New York. A Man's mark is also his family. Any way you slice it, Ralph's passing will ensure they all have more money than they could ever possibly spend. Any way it shakes out, his family legacy would be the same. It makes me dizzy to think about how Ralph would be so cavalier with the future of the team in Buffalo. His team could live on forever, along with his name on the stadium, a street would likely be named after him, a statue outside the stadium, etc.... Everyone in Buffalo would remember Ralph very fondly if he locked them into WNY. He would be a hero. its strange that he would simply max out/cash out and allow his team and all around it to go 'poof'. I would think his heirs would be fine if they received a little less money if the man who built it wanted his legacy to remain in this world. There is a simple explanation why Ralph Wilson wants to maximize his biggest asset when it is auctioned off after his passing: Greed. How much is enough? There is never enough for people like Ralph. His attitude is that he could have done better and made more money elsewhere. This narcissist baron believes that he is the great benefactor and should be exhalted for his generosity and sacrifice. I was not surprised when he was at the podium in Toronto announcing the transfer of some games to the canadian city when he made some disparaging comments about the western NY market. His PR people had to later "clean up" the ruckus he stirred up from the community which has supported him for half a century. But make no mistake about it the comments coming from this aged owner did reflect what he truly believed. If the Bills are moved from western NY his legacy for sure will be sullied, at least in NY. Does the negative perception of him bother him? Of course not. He just doesn't care. He will be dead. As others have indicated there are a variety of ways of handling the selling of the franchise that will ensure it staying in the region and would also allow his estate to get fair market value for the franchise. That approach is not going to happen because he doesn't want it to happen that way. Why? Because Ralph is Ralph!
DIE HARD 1967 Posted October 23, 2009 Posted October 23, 2009 I like my plan better.... Ralph never dies, he is frozen next to Walt Disney and hands over power of attorney to Bill Polion NO TAXES and Polion trades Payton Manning to Buffalo for a 3rd round draft pick one week before the BIG FREEZE The Colts fire Bill and we are on our way!!!
GripnRip Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 I never knew how many very bad lawyers populated our forums.
Typical TBD Guy Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 There is a simple explanation why Ralph Wilson wants to maximize his biggest asset when it is auctioned off after his passing: Greed. How much is enough? There is never enough for people like Ralph. His attitude is that he could have done better and made more money elsewhere. This narcissist baron believes that he is the great benefactor and should be exhalted for his generosity and sacrifice. I was not surprised when he was at the podium in Toronto announcing the transfer of some games to the canadian city when he made some disparaging comments about the western NY market. His PR people had to later "clean up" the ruckus he stirred up from the community which has supported him for half a century. But make no mistake about it the comments coming from this aged owner did reflect what he truly believed. If the Bills are moved from western NY his legacy for sure will be sullied, at least in NY. Does the negative perception of him bother him? Of course not. He just doesn't care. He will be dead. As others have indicated there are a variety of ways of handling the selling of the franchise that will ensure it staying in the region and would also allow his estate to get fair market value for the franchise. That approach is not going to happen because he doesn't want it to happen that way. Why? Because Ralph is Ralph! Well said. Ralph Wilson = Art Modell. That will be his posthumous legacy in Buffalo. A true pariah of WNY. Outside WNY, his only positive legacy will be his efforts in jumpstarting the AFL and in the AFL-NFL merger. His "champion for small markets" label will be long forgotten.
rpcolosi Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Isn't this what Miami is doing? in no way is this what miami is doing because Ralph's wife has no interest in maintaing majority ownership. Ross is bringing in some minority owners to bring Celeb spotlight and pizzazz to the team. sure he gets a few bucks to offset his debt load, but he desires to be majority owner. ralphs wife does not. nor does buffalo have that star power - maybe a few years ago the thought could have been russert, the goos, brian mcknight, ex bills, etc buy a few shares but thats it. if golisano were to own the team its possibly he could opt to do this as a way to give former players some input and increase the national prominence of the team. would be intersting if other teams did it. but no, do not confuse this wiht miami or think it has a shot of hell in happening. our best bet is another team moves to LA, the bills keep sucking so the Toronto experiment fails and Golisano teams up with a jacobs or a rich brother to buy in.
first_and_ten Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 So, you have read his will? Where can I read it, maybe he is leaving me a few scraps.
tonyjustbcuz Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 You are missing something. Mrs. Ralph does not want an interest in the team. She is out. She doesn't want to be Georgia Frontieri of Rams lore. Unless Ralph has been lying, the team is auctioned off and that is that. Having said all this, two things in favor of the numbers possibly working in WNY's favor is the fact that any buyer is required to have a 70,000 seat stadium. L.A. does not have one, nor does any other legit candidate city. During these times, no local/state authority will be funding a stadium. This is a huge burden on the numbers for any buyer. Plus, you know you will have the stadium filled in WNY, you do not know this for sure anywhere else. Therefore if some guy from indiana buys the team, he has to think twice before moving the franchise away from RWS and the fan base. One thing of note: The plans to build a 70,000 seat NFL Stadium were just approved either yesterday or the day before. At least that is what they reported on WGR550 Radio when I was listening. They also mentioned that the Bills are one of 7 teams that LA is pursuing in the hopes of landing an NFL Franchise....I know that St.Louis Rams was another team, I think San Diego, and possibly Jax....Can't remember the other....I am with you that we have supported the team very well over the years considering our market size and economy. I would hope that the league would try to block an attempt to ever move the Bills outside of the Buffalo region.
tonyjustbcuz Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 One thing of note: The plans to build a 70,000 seat NFL Stadium were just approved either yesterday or the day before. At least that is what they reported on WGR550 Radio when I was listening. They also mentioned that the Bills are one of 7 teams that LA is pursuing in the hopes of landing an NFL Franchise....I know that St.Louis Rams was another team, I think San Diego, and possibly Jax....Can't remember the other....I am with you that we have supported the team very well over the years considering our market size and economy. I would hope that the league would try to block an attempt to ever move the Bills outside of the Buffalo region. I'm sorry it's late or early depending on how u dice it...but that is LA that is building the stadium.
billsfan_34 Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 One thing of note: The plans to build a 70,000 seat NFL Stadium were just approved either yesterday or the day before. At least that is what they reported on WGR550 Radio when I was listening. They also mentioned that the Bills are one of 7 teams that LA is pursuing in the hopes of landing an NFL Franchise....I know that St.Louis Rams was another team, I think San Diego, and possibly Jax....Can't remember the other....I am with you that we have supported the team very well over the years considering our market size and economy. I would hope that the league would try to block an attempt to ever move the Bills outside of the Buffalo region. The NFL didnt block cleveland from going to Baltimore. Its all about the mighty dollar. The question is, which NFL owner wants to move for the cash. I suspect Jax and my next guess would be St Louis. However, if the Bills dont get a new stadium, it very well could be us.
JohnC Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 He would leave it to his wife before his children as they would be liable for an inheritence tax. The spouse pays no tax. He may leave it to his estate, but how does this satisfy his wife's due value of the estate if the team does not sell? The majority owner of a team must put up 30% of the value/purchase of the team. WEO, Why do you believe the franchise wouldn't sell? Why do you believe that there wouldn't be a majority buyer who is capable of putting up 30% value/purchase of the team? The Rodgers group headed by the son of Pater Rodgers has made it clear that he would be a serious candidate to buy the team. Roski of the LA franchise seekers would have the assets and desire to buy a franchise. You have come up with a series of scenarios of what "could" happen when the buffoon owner has clearly state what "will" happen when he passes. No matter how you twist your varied positions it can't be reconciled to the REALITY of what is going to happen to the franchise when the owner passes.
profile Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 All I have to add to this debate is this map: http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa248/l...nflcoverage.jpg Explain to me why the Bills are being aired in the Los Angeles market.... There's your proof. Don't think for one second Ralph isn't responsible for that. The man is a money grubbing bastard who does not give 2 $hits about the city or fans of Buffalo. If he did he would be making provisions to ensure the team stays in Buffalo. HE IS NOT. He is damning this franchise by keeping an inferior product on the field so sales and local interest will dwindle enough to make a better case for the new owner to move the team. Believe it, it's happening right now.
JohnC Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Well said. Ralph Wilson = Art Modell. That will be his posthumous legacy in Buffalo. A true pariah of WNY. Outside WNY, his only positive legacy will be his efforts in jumpstarting the AFL and in the AFL-NFL merger. His "champion for small markets" label will be long forgotten. McKinley, Ralph's so called heroic fight for the small market teams has nothing to do for the benefit of similar sized markets. It has everything to do with his "personal" gain. By using his standard threat to move Ralph Wilson not only got a stadium built for him and then had it renovated without him contibuting a penny. He negotiated leases which allowed him relatively easy out terms of his sweetheart lease for himself and potential outside bidders. Those easy term leases enabled his franchise to be an attractive purchase when he desired to sell. The suites were built for him by the county and state governments. He got the revenue generated from those suites. The point I am making is that Ralph Wilson has magnificently benefited by the support of the taxpayers and the half century support of the fans. Ralph Wilson would strenuously argue that he doesn't have the ability to compete with the big boys because of their ability to generate "in-house" revenue (which they keep) beause of the their new money generating stadiums. What he doesn't say is that they paid for the stadiums or "contributed" in the paying of the stadium. Ralph has not contributed a penny to the building of the now antiquated and subsequently refurbished stadium his team plays in. While the product on the field has been putrid for the past decade he has made nearly a quater of a billion $$$ (Forbes study) over that same period. Yet, this aged owner still laments the fact that he could have made more money elsewhere. Could Ralph Wilson have made arrangements to sell his franchise to buyers who would ensure that the team stayed in western NY? Certainly he can. Art Modell brought in a buyer in Baltimore (Bishetti) sic and gave him the first option to buy. When Huizenga sold his Miami franchise he first brought in a buyer the year before he completely sold and gave him the first option to buy. As others have pointed out there are a variety of ways to make the transition from owner to seller and keep the franchise where it should be. The old grumpy owner is oblivious to how his meager investment half a century ago became a billion dollar asset and steady money producing asset for him. The owner is a self-centered spoiled brat who believes that he should be served and exhalted. My view of him is simple and consistent. He is an arse! Always has been and always will be to the very end.
Doc Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Ralph' wife inherits the team. As his spouse, she is exempt from federal estate taxes. She then sells fractional shares of the team to whomever wishes to by them (maybe even Kelly's mysterious gang of high rollers will come out of the shadows). (A little late to the party because I missed somehow this thread when it was first posted, but) great idea, doc! Where'd you get it? I haven't read Ralph's will and neither have any of you. And I'd be willing to bet a substantial amount of money that neither has Larry Felser. Given that Ralph refuses to sell the team before he dies because he (allegedly egotistically) wants to be the only owner while he's alive (another reason why his selling the team to an LA group is bunk), I think it's safe to say that he'd want his wife (Mary Wilson) or daughters (Christy Wilson-Hoffman, and he has another daughter, Dee Dee Wilson, who has nothing to do with the team) to be the next owner(s) and keep the team owned by the Wilson family. That leads me to believe that none of them has an interest in owning the team after he dies and just want their money from it, hence the reason why it likely/reportedly will be sold (it won't be "auctioned-off," that's just Felser-speak) to the highest/best bidder, pending approval by the NFL. And the NFL has final say; just look at Limbaugh's failed attempt at being in the ownership group of the Rams. So if you want to direct your venom some place, direct it at his wife, who holds the key to selling the team in a timely fashion, and less at his daughters, who face huge estate taxes upon inheritance of the team. Putting the team in a trust still requires one of them to run the team, again which none of them have in interest in doing. As for the team moving, with the economy being the way it is for the foreseeable future, there is realistically only one place where any NFL team could move, because of stadium (read: construction costs and who will foot the bill) issues, and that's LA (and even there, I'll bet cost overruns will threaten that, but we'll see). The team that will most likely move there is the Jags. They can't sell-out a smaller stadium because of severe fan apathy (even when they were winning and making the playoffs), and they're worth the 5th least among NFL teams, although Weaver might be willing to accept less to get the team off his hands and/or to remain a minority owner. The next likely are the Raiders, whose lease in Oakland expires in August of 2011. After that it would be the Chargers, 49'ers, and Vikings, who are looking for new stadiums. The Bills will likely stay where they are with the Ralph continuing to be refurbished, and with more games moving to Toronto, which is still a largely untapped market for them.
Mr. WEO Posted October 24, 2009 Author Posted October 24, 2009 WEO, Why do you believe the franchise wouldn't sell? Why do you believe that there wouldn't be a majority buyer who is capable of putting up 30% value/purchase of the team? The Rodgers group headed by the son of Pater Rodgers has made it clear that he would be a serious candidate to buy the team. Roski of the LA franchise seekers would have the assets and desire to buy a franchise. You have come up with a series of scenarios of what "could" happen when the buffoon owner has clearly state what "will" happen when he passes. No matter how you twist your varied positions it can't be reconciled to the REALITY of what is going to happen to the franchise when the owner passes. Why won't it sell? The stadium is a dump and will not provide enough income for the next owner--who wil actually have debt to pay. Also, if the Rams are on the market also, I would think there are not too many individuals who are able to invest the amount required to purchase a team, let alone 2 on the market. Finding a buyer willing to put up 30% is not impossible. Finding the other 70% may be. Roski is blowing smoke with his posturing as a potential owner. His financial empire is built on commercial real estate--a dead market--and he has lost a billion dollars over the past two years. Now he's going to build a new stadium and cut a check to Ralph for the Bills? Again, I don't know what's in the will. My position, very simply, is that if he truly cared about the team and it's remaining in the city that he himself couldn't stand to live in, my scenario would be an option for him to adopt and would keep the Bills in Buff. His old lady wouldn't have to do sh*t as far as running the team. She could just continue to spend the money--just as if her sugar daddy was still alive. But I realize that's not how it will go because Ralph has stated he doesn't care what happens after he's gone. Doc, Glad you like it! But...... There is no stadium in LA. The Jags owner has repeatedly said he's not moving. The League will never grant a wish for Davis to move his awful team into a shaky NFL market (come on!). The Vikes are bluffing. So are the local officials. They will get a stadium. The only serious contenders for any future LA site are the Chargers and the Rams. My guess is it will be the Chargers. They are SoCals team and hardly anyone in the country would notice if they moved.
TDO'Kearney Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 All I have to add to this debate is this map: http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa248/l...nflcoverage.jpg Explain to me why the Bills are being aired in the Los Angeles market.... There's your proof. Don't think for one second Ralph isn't responsible for that. The man is a money grubbing bastard who does not give 2 $hits about the city or fans of Buffalo. If he did he would be making provisions to ensure the team stays in Buffalo. HE IS NOT. He is damning this franchise by keeping an inferior product on the field so sales and local interest will dwindle enough to make a better case for the new owner to move the team. Believe it, it's happening right now. I can't argue with the fact that he's putting an inferior product on the field, but if you look at those maps, it's NORTHERN California watching the BUF-CAR game, not Southern. The LA market will see SD and KC.... I can't think of a reason off of the top of my head why this game would be shown in the OAK/SF market, but there it is.
NorCal Aaron Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 I can't think of a reason off of the top of my head why this game would be shown in the OAK/SF market, but there it is. The 49ers are the early game and the Raiders are blacked out. Fewer teams playing with this weeks bye, and Carolina is one of the 9ers rivals in the NFC West is the best that I can come up with. During their run in the late 80's and a good portion of the 1990s, the Bills were routinely (almost weekly at times) put on as the early game when the Niners played at home or on the late game. When the Raiders returned to Oakland, the Bills got play when Al's boys were blacked out.
Doc Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Doc, Glad you like it! But...... There is no stadium in LA. The Jags owner has repeatedly said he's not moving. The League will never grant a wish for Davis to move his awful team into a shaky NFL market (come on!). The Vikes are bluffing. So are the local officials. They will get a stadium. The only serious contenders for any future LA site are the Chargers and the Rams. My guess is it will be the Chargers. They are SoCals team and hardly anyone in the country would notice if they moved. So we're in agreement that the Bills probably won't move. Fine. Whether a stadium gets built is another matter, but steps are being taken to get it going. It's actually gotten farther than I ever thought it would. And if it gets built, you're fooling yourself if you think that Weaver's words mean anything, or that the NFL has any power to stop Davis from moving back to LA (a less shaky market than Oakland? Come on!). The question there is who makes a deal with Roski first: Weaver or Davis?
JohnC Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 But I realize that's not how it will go because Ralph has stated he doesn't care what happens after he's gone. WEO, That has been my position all along. If I had to venture a guess odds are that a Toronto group will have the advantage in purchasing the Bills because they can claim they are already part of the Bills' market so they wouldn't have to pay a relocation fee to the league.
Doc Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Ralph "has stated that he doesn't care what happens after he's gone?"
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