SuperKillerRobots Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 It occurs to me that after this year there will be changes with the Bills. All the talk of new coaches coming in and who wants what coach got me thinking of what the best route to go as far as hiring is concerned. I think most people can agree that both the coaching and FO need to be overhauled in some way. With that in mind, would you like to get a vetern coach and give him a large amount of control over the personnel process, possibly even letting him hire his own scouting guys (coach/GM Option)? Or would you rather hire a GM-type guy who would then be in charge of all football operations, which would include hiring his own coach? The basic scenario I'm thinking of, is would you take a guy like Cowher or Gruden to coach the team and essentially have full control over the personnel side, or would you rather have someone like Chris Polian (or another second in command guy from a successful franchise come in and be the GM and hire his own coach? Personally, I don't like the idea of giving one person the coaching and GM job a la Gruden, Cowher, etc. I'd rather take the number two guy from the Giants or Colts, or another successful team that hasn't lost many people from their FO and then allow them to hire a coach and personnel department. I'd like to see this happen and I'd like the coach to be another coordinator instead of one of the "proven" coaches.
Got_Wood Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Well, I would say that it depends on who it is. Currently Jauron has been given a lot of the GM decisions for the last couple years. Unfortunately, that resulted in him dismantling our offensive line completely, firing our offensive coordinator just before the season started, drafting a defensive end "project" with a high 1st round pick, prematurely placing players on IR when they may have time left at the end of the season to play, not replacing Ellison at LB, and overdrafting the hell out of DB's. All the while, Russ Brandon hasn't made any football decisions at all. Bring in someone like Cowher or Shannahan, and I would trust them more with the keys to the organization. However, I think the ideal situation would be to bring in an up and coming personnel guy from a proven organization, and a coach like gruden, Cowher, Holmgren, or Shannahan.
Philly McButterpants Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 We need a football "guy" to run the organization. He can then bring in his own coach. The razor thin depth of this current team speaks volumes about the need to have a knowledgeable person in chgarge of the entire operation . . . Too bad Ralph got burned by Donohoe . . . Maybe then he wouldnb't be shy about bringing in a Holmgren, Shanahan or Gruden . . .
BuffaloWings Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Personally, I don't like the idea of giving one person the coaching and GM job a la Gruden, Cowher, etc. I'd rather take the number two guy from the Giants or Colts, or another successful team that hasn't lost many people from their FO and then allow them to hire a coach and personnel department. I'd like to see this happen and I'd like the coach to be another coordinator instead of one of the "proven" coaches. Normally, I wouldn't, either. Teams have typically underachieved when a coach is also the GM - spread too thin, imo. However, I think it wouldn't hurt in the Bills' case. Money/salary aside, if it's someone like Mike Holmgren who's done the GM job before, I can live with it. Even Mike Shanahan wouldn't be a bad choice. The down side of this is how long would we expect that guy to stick around? If I had to decide, I'd bring in a guy who's ready to make the leap to a GM and/or be in control of the football operations. This has to be someone who has been around the football side (not the business side) of a team's operation and who has connections and knows personnel...or at least can bring in someone who knows personnel. Then let this guy hire a coach.
shoveldog Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Pretty clear to me... we have not had success since Bill Polian. I'm not sure who the "football guy" is that we need to bring in, but someone needs to be brought in to run the football operations who: a) can identify quality talent, both pro and college. b) can hire a quality head coach with a passion to win. I like Brandon on the business side. Make him in charge of the business side and leave the football side to someone with a proven track record of identifying and developing players and coaches. A guy like Holmgren would be good, but he'd have to do what Parcels did and get away from the coaching side. Just my .02. Shovel
billsfan89 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 My dream is for Ralph to hand over control of this organization to Chris Polian. He has done a good job high up in the Colts organization for a extended period of time and the Polian name would once again be in Buffalo. Than I would have trust in this front office and organization even if the younger Polian were to hire a no name coordinator I would still think it was a good hire. Honestly if I were making the call (God help us if I were in charge) I would hire Gruden but if I couldn't get a guy like that I would go with Russ Grimm he comes from the Steelers a winning organization and has a specialty for offensive lines which would help the develop of our young lineman.
CodeMonkey Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 We need a GM who knows WTF he is doing. Without that, getting a new coach is pointless and would only serve to appease the bloodthirsty fans.
Ray Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 A great QB trumps them all and it has been proved time and time again. You can get away with an average coach and a great QB but not the other way around
SuperKillerRobots Posted October 16, 2009 Author Posted October 16, 2009 We need a GM who knows WTF he is doing. Without that, getting a new coach is pointless and would only serve to appease the bloodthirsty fans. This is kinda what I was thinking when I posted. I feel like the coach talk is premature and that we really need a guy who is going to stay with the organization for 10 years as the lead football guy to instill a different culture into the organization.
evilbuffalobob Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 To enter the convolution known as this question, I shall say that I have no problem with Russ Brandon and I think he's been a huge asset to the franchise. There should not be an argument that Russ would not, should not, nor has not made the personnel decisions 100%. I say, let he and RW hire a coach who specializes in game-day coaching, unless it's someone like Holmgren... then perhaps there should be a co-op between he and Russ. Bottom line, I don't think we should send Russ packing. Everyone else can go.
CodeMonkey Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 A great QB trumps them all and it has been proved time and time again. You can get away with an average coach and a great QB but not the other way around Ahhhh grasshopper, but can you get a great QB without a good GM?
Ray Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Of course you can get a great QB with an average or bad GM......it is 50/50% drafting a QB in the first round especially in the top 10. Ryan Leaf, J Harrington, Akili Smith vs Manning Ryan Flacco Countless examples. The Pats lucked out on T Brady as if they knew he was going to be so good they would have picked in sooner. But the major determinant of a great team is the QB.....when they are great and you add other great players like Moss to the Pats the great QBs get even better. Brady led a team to AFC Championship game with R Caldwell as the number one WR. M Harrison leaves the Colts and they do not miss a beat. C Palmer goes down last year and the Bengals are horrible and he is back this year playing well and the Bengals have great wins. Everyone on this board thinks that a magical coaching change will change it all....my point is simply the Bills need a QB. Once you have your QB of the future you are set and things fall in to place. Now getting that QB is another thing. If you substituted C Palmer/ Either Manning/TB with Edwards the Bills are 4-1 or 5-0. The postition is just so important to a football team in every facet of the game. A very good QB makes that pass to Owens in the NO game and the Bills go up in the 4th quarter. Instead of being in a passing down late in the 4th quarter where they know you are passing and TE gets sacked for the last 5 minutes of the game you control your own dynasty. The players are open, polays are there to be made and TE is NOT making them. There was a time when I thought TE really was going to take the next step and be the guy for the next 10 years but it s obvious he is not. The QB of the future is not on the roster and that is what makes this so frustrating.....have to go through this rebuild all again
thewildrabbit Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 A great QB trumps them all and it has been proved time and time again. You can get away with an average coach and a great QB but not the other way around I don't believe that for a second, great GM's make great systems. Bill Polian built a great team in Buffalo and again at Indianapolis. Bill Walsh built the modern day west coast offense at San Francisco, Steve Young had some horrid seasons at Tampa Bay before he went to the 49ers, then took them to the playoffs and super bowl. I've seen so many really good young QB's go to teams where the coaching stinks and they just fade into obscurity. Great teams usually need really good players,coaches and a GM to put the talent on the field. I can honestly say I don't think I've ever seen one QB that can overcome a bad team or bad coaching.
thewildrabbit Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 Of course you can get a great QB with an average or bad GM......it is 50/50% drafting a QB in the first round especially in the top 10. Ryan Leaf, J Harrington, Akili Smith vs Manning Ryan FlaccoCountless examples. The Pats lucked out on T Brady as if they knew he was going to be so good they would have picked in sooner. But the major determinant of a great team is the QB.....when they are great and you add other great players like Moss to the Pats the great QBs get even better. Brady led a team to AFC Championship game with R Caldwell as the number one WR. M Harrison leaves the Colts and they do not miss a beat. C Palmer goes down last year and the Bengals are horrible and he is back this year playing well and the Bengals have great wins. Everyone on this board thinks that a magical coaching change will change it all....my point is simply the Bills need a QB. Once you have your QB of the future you are set and things fall in to place. Now getting that QB is another thing. If you substituted C Palmer/ Either Manning/TB with Edwards the Bills are 4-1 or 5-0. The postition is just so important to a football team in every facet of the game. A very good QB makes that pass to Owens in the NO game and the Bills go up in the 4th quarter. Instead of being in a passing down late in the 4th quarter where they know you are passing and TE gets sacked for the last 5 minutes of the game you control your own dynasty. The players are open, polays are there to be made and TE is NOT making them. There was a time when I thought TE really was going to take the next step and be the guy for the next 10 years but it s obvious he is not. The QB of the future is not on the roster and that is what makes this so frustrating.....have to go through this rebuild all again That statement is just silly, any QB that plays for the Bills this year would be running for his life and playing the same way Edwards is. The Bills have the worst offensive line in the NFL, if you doubt that, they have a player from Green Bays practice squad starting at tackle, and Green Bays O line is also horrid. C Palmer, Mannings might have a good game or two, but after they get hit after every passing play and are knocked around like Edwards has been this year, they will start to play just like he is. An example is the NY Giants in the super bowl against Tom Brady, he clearly didn't have time to throw and he played poorly. Now imagine the NY Giants playing Buffalo every week... because the Bills offensive line is so bad they make every team they face look like they are playing the 85 bears defense. The team that played against NE opening week is not the same team you will see fielded against the Jets on Sunday, both the defense and offense are riddled with injuries. The two OT's that the Bills have had playing for them the last three weeks wouldn't even make any other teams roster.
Ice Cold Bruschi Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 It all starts with the owner, and the Bills have a terrible one.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 It all starts with the owner, and the Bills have a terrible one. In my opinion nobody would have thought bringing Tom Donahoe or Marv Levy in as GM was such a bad idea at the time, but its real easy to second guess RW now I suppose for all of us.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 A great QB trumps them all and it has been proved time and time again. You can get away with an average coach and a great QB but not the other way around And without a team around the QB (including coaching and front office), you end up with a Bert Jones or a Greg Cook. In my opinion nobody would have thought bringing Tom Donahoe or Marv Levy in as GM was such a bad idea at the time, but its real easy to second guess RW now I suppose for all of us. Many people thought bringing in Marv as GM was a laughably bad move. They were proven correct.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 And without a team around the QB (including coaching and front office), you end up with a Bert Jones or a Greg Cook. Many people thought bringing in Marv as GM was a laughably bad move. They were proven correct. and 10 times as many thought it was a good move.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 and 10 times as many thought it was a good move. A lot of people believe in astrology too.
Lofton80 Posted October 17, 2009 Posted October 17, 2009 I know of no one who thought it was a good move. He hand delivered us Dick Jauron. Enough said about Marv.
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