Marv killing his legacy?

[jahbonas]

Nice job Mr Revisionist History.

 

It shouldn't be hard for you to dig up the stories of the 89 season to see exactly what was happening at the time. And yes, a 9-7 record for a stacked team that was one play away from a SB the year before is a near collapse, especially what was happening in the locker room and off field at the time. But hey don't let that get in the way.

 

If it was so easy to reach the SB with a stacked team, where were the Dolphins, Oilers, Raiders and Bengals in the 90s? Why were 49ers absent from the game in the early 90s?

 

Or could it be that Bills happened to play against better teams in the SB? You can laugh about being whipped by Cowpokes, but history now tells us that Jimma's team may have been one of the all time greats. The only team that was worse than Bills in SB were the Giants.

 

Two items which should have kept Marv out of the HOF:

1- in 1990 he rode secretariat and came in 2nd place by a nose. He lost as an 8pt favorite. At that time I think it was the 1st time in 15+ yrs that the favorite had lost)

 

2- He allowed his defensive coordinator to play a bend but dont break defense while he had the most explosive scoring offense of that era. The 2 totally dont mix. This is the equivalent of having a far superior scoring basketball team (like UNLV running rebels of 90s) and then playing a sit back zone defense against teams that always wished to shorten the game and keep our offense off the field. And to top it all - our defense was built on speed and pass rush/attack not a sit back team

 

The true Hall of Famers of our Superbowl era were the players and the front office/scouts/GMs who acquired those players.....ownership got lucky...and coaching just sucked (as evidenced by none of the staff going anywhere after they were fired by the Bills - except one Ted Marchibroda)

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

I heard that and started to laugh.

it was awful... he is so out of touch

[Webster Guy]

well, I heard it too and it was tough to listen to, especially the part about the Bills being a "whisker" from winning that Cleveland game and having a better record (with the implication that the team is THAT close to turning it around)....

 

EVEN IF we beat Cleveland 9-6 in OT or something similar, it would be a JOKE of a win, given how this team played... The Browns looked like they were TRYING to lose for crying out loud!

 

Marv is just trying to put a positive spin on things because he fought so hard for Jauron to be hired.

 

Don't forget who picked the players on those Super Bowl teams: Polian. Once he left, this team's drafts went downhill and have stunk ever since. Meanwhile, the drafts of the Colts have been great. Coincidence? I think not.

 

Marv NEVER was a great evaluator of talent. He was a GOOD coach who did some great things in terms of managing egos and leading a great group of men on the field. One could argue his assistant coaching hires were not great, either.

 

Where is the Levy coaching tree? Where is the Levy legacy as GM? I'm not bashing the guy but people have to be realistic here.

 

Marv's comments should not surprise anyone here. He is a lot like Tony Dungy: great motivators, extremely intelligent men, but when it comes to nuts and bolts, there are many better.

I was gonna post but you summed everything up perfectly for me. Thanks for saving me the time.

[GG]

Again with revisionist history. Corey's bend defense really wasn't the culprit in that game. I'm sure that the game plan called for 3rd down tackles to be made. Plus if you're giving more credit to the FO, then who were the ones signing off on Jeff Wright as an effective 3-4 NT? If there was a monumental mistake it was dumping Freddie and not signing Jim Burt.

 

As for the coaching tree, that's not a convincing argument as Levy liked to hire older assistants, who already proved not to be effective HCs, unlike the Capers, Gaileys, and Wannies of the world. I guess Bobby Ross, Ted Tollner, Nick Nicolau, Schofner and Henning are all obscure nonames.

 

Then looking at the 8 spread - you have to attribute it to Vegas action following the dismantling of the Raiders. Apparently bookies forgot a very tight game between the same two teams only weeks before. Or of Giants beating a heavily favored 49er team on the road too.

[billsfan714]

We were out coached badly by the Giants in the first superbowl. Its a shame because we were the better team, just not that day.

[jahbonas]

Again with revisionist history. Corey's bend defense really wasn't the culprit in that game. I'm sure that the game plan called for 3rd down tackles to be made. Plus if you're giving more credit to the FO, then who were the ones signing off on Jeff Wright as an effective 3-4 NT? If there was a monumental mistake it was dumping Freddie and not signing Jim Burt.

 

As for the coaching tree, that's not a convincing argument as Levy liked to hire older assistants, who already proved not to be effective HCs, unlike the Capers, Gaileys, and Wannies of the world. I guess Bobby Ross, Ted Tollner, Nick Nicolau, Schofner and Henning are all obscure nonames.

 

Then looking at the 8 spread - you have to attribute it to Vegas action following the dismantling of the Raiders. Apparently bookies forgot a very tight game between the same two teams only weeks before. Or of Giants beating a heavily favored 49er team on the road too.

 

Coreys defense was not the culprit in that game? Our defense allowed a superbowl record for time of posession (against inferior talent and backup QB and backup RB) and our offense scored at the rate of almost a point a minute.

 

Also - thats not my view alone - that was Bill Polians view on his tueday night talk show following the Superbowl loss..the game was totally lost on our defensive side of the ball allowing back to back 10 minute drives

[GG]

Of course the game was lost on the defensive side. But it was more due to Ron Earhardt's brilliant game plan to attack a weak middle and play keep away ball. But if Bills defenders make a few routine plays, the game has a different outcome. Walt Corey wasn't the one missing 3rd down and long tackles.

[GrudginglyPessimistic]

Of course the game was lost on the defensive side. But it was more due to Ron Earhardt's brilliant game plan to attack a weak middle and play keep away ball. But if Bills defenders make a few routine plays, the game has a different outcome. Walt Corey wasn't the one missing 3rd down and long tackles.

 

While keeping two contradictory thoughts in your head at the same time is NOT a guarantee of genius, the inability to keep two contradictory notions in one's head is a fairly typical indication of foolishness.

 

The idea that Marv not cutting it in his two year stint as GM in an attempt to try to rescue Mr. Ralph from his foolish giving the keys to the Bill hot rod without some adult supervision in no way cancels out the virtually impossible to equal accomplishments he had has HC of the Bills during the early 90s.

 

Yes, he certainly never won the Big Show, but in this fans mind, it is actually way more difficult to get to four SBs in a row than to win the game once. It also took a lot of dumb luck to get back and also dumb luck to not get a win in 4 shots. It took a virtually impossible assemblage of talent (mostly thanks to Polian), dogged determination by a group of talented though painfully flawed at times athletes to pull off this feat. However, pull it off they did and under the salary cap I think it will be hard to assemble such a group and hold it together in the future.

 

Marv was in over his head as an older man GMing for a flawed owner. His loyalty makes him a lousy pundit even if he is a good guy, but his HC work is not invalidated for this fan because he did not cut it as a GM.

[John in Jax]

But then again, I'm quite confident that Marv has a far superior understanding of football and of current personnel in the league than any of us do. I'm also quite certain that it is absolutely absurd for any of us to think otherwise. Perhaps Marv isn't the most competent man in the business, but you have to realize he is still vastly superior in knowledge of dynamics of football and in general football and personnel knowledge than any of us could possibly be, considering his CAREER in the league, his extensive contacts with people who actually get paid for their knowledge, and his extensive resources in terms of contacts with other teams, other personnel people, and just general league resources.

 

I love how people who work 9-5 at office depot somehow feel that their credentials and knowledge are superior to those of anybody in the NFL who gets paid for their opinions....it really boggles the mind that anyone could be so flagrantly ignorant.

 

Dumbest post I've read on here in a long while, and there's been a lot of dumb posts.

 

It's NOT brain surgery....not even close. The proof of Marv's ineptitude (and the other current front office "brain trust") is right in front of your face. If YOU can't see it, then you probably should stop watching the Bills, and take up bowling on your Sunday afternoons.

[BillsVet]

Dumbest post I've read on here in a long while, and there's been a lot of dumb posts.

 

It's NOT brain surgery....not even close. The proof of Marv's ineptitude (and the other current front office "brain trust") is right in front of your face. If YOU can't see it, then you probably should stop watching the Bills, and take up bowling on your Sunday afternoons.

 

When all else fails for some TBD'ers, fall back on how they are in pro football and individual posters aren't. It's a woeful attempt at argument suppression in the face of facts and logic.

 

When you begin a rebuild project in 2006 and aren't on track to make the playoffs in 2009, it's called failure. Nothing less than absolute failure. Levy is a big part of it.

[nero47]

PLEASE for the love of God keep Marv away from My Football Team from now on...

Good to know the team finally sold.

[BuffOrange]

Lastly...Marv actually compared Jauron to Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher...He did...Listen to it...And He's FULL of excuses for Jauron dating back to the fact He did not have any true Home Games during the Stadium building in Chicago...Seriously Marv? And He compared Trent's situation to TB giving up on Steve Young, Atlanta giving up on Brett Favre, Pittsburg sticking with Terry Bradshaw and Troy Aikman having a 1-15 Season...Okey doke Marv... This is the guy we had making key decisions? And we wonder why we are where we are now?

 

PLEASE for the love of God keep Marv away from My Football Team from now on...

 

I was going to start a thread on this too. It really is embarrassing and pathetic that he brings up the "rebuilt stadium" during every single interview. You would think it was a decade-long project in two different cities

 

I didn't study statistics at Harvard, but it would seem to me that in 9 seasons, one particular losing season out of eight losing seasons is less outlier than 1 and only 1 winning season.

[Bill from NYC]

My take on Marv

 

Click if you care to read.

 

The key quote of my post was, "The absence of any recent "glory days" for this franchise drives many to continue to worship at Marv's feet. So be it. But for all those who think Marv built or facilitated the careers of Kelly, Smith, Thomas and Reed, I say that it was really the opposite that took place. When you look OBJECTIVELY at what Marv has wrought since his association ended with those players (and Bill Polian making the personnel decisions), the results are clear. Marv's credibility to speak on any topic related to the success of the Bills is nil."

 

Very true. Marv as GM was just another example of the Bills living in the past. AVP and the No Huddle are also concrete examples of a team living in yesteryear.

 

I did like the 09 draft in terms of Wood and Levitre, and imp Hangartner was a good signing. Maybin is anybody's guess; the rest was a Jauron special.

 

This team needs Marty, or even his kid.

[BuffOrange]

My take on Marv

 

Click if you care to read.

 

The key quote of my post was, "The absence of any recent "glory days" for this franchise drives many to continue to worship at Marv's feet. So be it. But for all those who think Marv built or facilitated the careers of Kelly, Smith, Thomas and Reed, I say that it was really the opposite that took place. When you look OBJECTIVELY at what Marv has wrought since his association ended with those players (and Bill Polian making the personnel decisions), the results are clear. Marv's credibility to speak on any topic related to the success of the Bills is nil."

 

A "great" coach would have won a SB with the talent the Bills had during that stretch. Everyone says how "stacked" the Boys were. Well, the Bills were stacked also--as everyone here has argued for at least two or three more Bills from those teams belongs in the HOF.

 

To paraphrase TMQ--even SouthGeorgiaBillsFan could have coach to one SB win with that group.

 

I'm not far off from these viewpoints.

 

When you really think about it, the perceived strength of your opponent in a SB is a bit of a circular argument since it has a lot to do with whether or not you beat them.

 

Who remembers that GB was a 2 TD favorite over Denver? Nobody. History barely even remembers it as an upset because Denver won the following year and "Terrell Davis was just so good in that game". If the Packers win that game and go back to back, they're in the conversation as one of the greatest teams ever. Same with the Rams if they destroy NE and win 2 in 3 years.

 

So I guess people can pretend like the Redskins were a vastly superior team. But they came alive in a year where the Giants tanked, the Cowboys were a still a year away, the 49ers missed the playoffs, and so they had to beat the vaunted Falcons and Lions in the playoffs (the same Lions team that couldn't beat the Bills scrubs in regulation of week 17 with a division title on the line). If we actually capitalize on some early breaks we got in that game (like a blocked FG) the Skins are remembered like the '98 Falcons - a nice team with an inflated 14-2 record who has never competed for a championship since.

[Bill from NYC]

When all else fails for some TBD'ers, fall back on how they are in pro football and individual posters aren't. It's a woeful attempt at argument suppression in the face of facts and logic.

 

This is nothing new BV. The truth however is that I have personally met posters on this board that are far more competent than the Bills front office in terms of judging talent and the draft.

 

I can understand people having issues with this, but it is quite true.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Lastly...Marv actually compared Jauron to Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher...He did...Listen to it...And He's FULL of excuses for Jauron dating back to the fact He did not have any true Home Games during the Stadium building in Chicago...Seriously Marv?

Yes, that remark was total revisionism. Marv said Jauron "never had any true home games in Chicago." Not 1 home game in 5 years?! Not to mention that every team with a winning record has to win at least 1 game on the road (excepting Katrina aberrations).

[BillsVet]

This is nothing new BV. The truth however is that I have personally met posters on this board that are far more competent than the Bills front office in terms of judging talent and the draft.

 

I can understand people having issues with this, but it is quite true.

 

The worst part is that it took the casual uninformed fans more than 3 seasons to realize Levy had no business being a GM in this league, regardless of whether he was just the consensus builder or actually responsible.

 

I give credit to those fans who came back and admitted they were wrong about Levy. Personally, a lot of fans could not admit Levy was wrong because they had too much personally invested in the guy's success. One TBD'er with many posts was a big Levy fan and hasn't been heard from very much lately.

[KOKBILLS]

Good to know the team finally sold.

 

Well...With that attitude you are not going to get a seat in My owners Box...

[Bill from NYC]

Personally, a lot of fans could not admit Levy was wrong because they had too much personally invested in the guy's success. One TBD'er with many posts was a big Levy fan and hasn't been heard from very much lately.

 

I can understand this BV. We are all Bills fans and at this point we want to cling to something that we perceive as good. I go very easy on Marv because my opinions about him have offended people throughout the years.

I too made some very bad predictions. Did you know that I expected Rob Johnson to be a great quarterback? I looked at his skillset and was convinced that he was something special, just as our Losman freaks are doing now.

 

And, I hold onto hope. I like our interior OL. It is something to build around. The problem is that quality OTs HAVE to be drafted. Nobody trades these guys, and they are tagged as franchise players. The scary part is that we draft small defensive backs and gadget players with our top picks.

I will support the Bills until I am dead, but my expectations are not high. Someone like Schottenheimer, an ex-Bill, could look at this team and easily see what is wrong. It really wouldn't be that hard except to the senile, and chronic career losers that have done just so much damage to our franchise.

[BillsVet]

And, I hold onto hope. I like our interior OL. It is something to build around. The problem is that quality OTs HAVE to be drafted. Nobody trades these guys, and they are tagged as franchise players. The scary part is that we draft small defensive backs and gadget players with our top picks.

 

I will support the Bills until I am dead, but my expectations are not high. Someone like Schottenheimer, an ex-Bill, could look at this team and easily see what is wrong. It really wouldn't be that hard except to the senile, and chronic career losers that have done just so much damage to our franchise.

 

If Levy was as successful as some made him out to be, the team would be better now. But they're not, and the front office's bad decisions from 04-08 are why this team is back to square one.

 

I don't know who should coach this team in 2010, but there's a huge attitude adjustment necessary in that locker room. I would not object to Marty, as long as he had a successor on the coaching staff. Marty's probably able to build a foundation, and that's what this organization needs. Not some emotionless, conservative, and uninspiring shell on the sideline.