bizell Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Trent is a good QB. You put him on the Eagles or the Vikes and he does well. Here on the Bills, with the leagues worst O-line, not so much.... Trent's yard per capita can't even touch Favre's or McNabb's. Both those players can throw downfield. Do you think Edwards can make the throw FAvre made to Greg Lewis to beat the Niners? The throws that McNabb made to Jeremy Maclin down the field? No way.
Albany,n.y. Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 What about Jason Peters? Pure dumb luck. Scouting had little or nothing to do with it. He was brought in as a TE & special teamer & was cut in preseason. He tried out elsewhere, at least the Giants, and wasn't signed. Fortunately for the Bills he didn't get picked up by someone else when he was a free agent & ended up on the practice squad. After being activated he mostly saw action on special teams and a little TE. He wasn't even tried at OT in a game his 1st year. McNally, a coach, not a scout, was the biggest reason he turned out to be a good LT.
Kipers Hair Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 No....bad olines and bad QB's do.....Just ask Moss about the Raiders....
DarthICE Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Ya know I've been thinking... Since 1999 we've had one QB who knew what he was doing, and as disappointing as he was it was Drew Bledsoe. Aside from him, we've had Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, JP Losman, and now Trent Edwards. Johnson had problems with holding the ball too long and either checking down or throwing a bomb. Van Pelt... God Bess him he tried. Kelly Holcomb: Captain Check down, took what defense gave him JP Losman: Long bombs or check down. Also held onto the ball too long Trent Edwards: Captain check down and is holding the ball too long. In college these guys threw down field. I know the pro game is a world of difference, but there can't be a single one of the QB's we had, excluding Van Pelt and Bledsoe, that didn't want to throw it to the starting wide receivers and not the running back or slot receiver. To me it's obvious that our last few coaches simply tell their QB's to take no risks with the football. QB is a position full of risks. Do you think Brett Favre wa thinking about throwing picks when he won that barn burner vs. San Fran a couple weeks ago? I know none of the guys we had are Favre, but even decent QB's take chances. It's like the Bills coach them to not lose instead of win. We sit here year after year blaming the QB's, when to me it's clearly a lack of confident coaching that just ruins the play of every QB we've had. Thoughts? No, we just pick crappy QB's to try and pass off as starters
Brandon Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Trent's yard per capita can't even touch Favre's or McNabb's. Both those players can throw downfield. Do you think Edwards can make the throw FAvre made to Greg Lewis to beat the Niners? The throws that McNabb made to Jeremy Maclin down the field? No way. Trent's problem isn't his arm. He's never going to be mistaken for John Elway, but his arm is decent enough. He's a bad QB not because he can't make most requisite NFL throws, but because he's too damn risk averse.
DrFishfinder Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 The guy I really think has done a terrific job at Baltimore is Cam Cameron, the team can throw or power run depending on what they want to do that day. Also he has done a great job with the development of Joe Flacco. No Cammy for the Bills.....remember what his HC record was with the Dolphins? 1-15
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 The QBs we have had were not that good since Kelly. We have taken castoffs from other teams such as Bledsoe, Flutie, Rob Johnson, Holcomb, etc. These people were not starters on any NFL team when we got them. We have not spent a really high draft pick on a QB. Losman was not a high first rounder and he was just a bad pick. He lacked some basic intangibles necessary to be a great QB and seemed to think the way to win was to get 2 or 3 TD bombs a game. No good team is EVER going to let you do that. He, along with Edwards, stinks at getting the 20 to 25 yard pass to work. Supposedly in practices they practice those kind of passes but it never works in games. So QB talent is the key issue, but that being said the Bills have never hired a coach that was considered a master QB developing coach, either as HC or OC, at least in the post coach Levy days. Marchibroda might have been considered a great QB coach and it showed with Kelly.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 No the bills just haven't found a qb who's any good. If Losman was as good as his mythical standards fans have applied to him around here he wouldn't be in a rag tag league. Edwards is just as bad as losman, maybe worse. Van Pelt, Johnson,Holcomb,Losman,Edwards nothing more than at the absolute most backup qb's. I find it hillarious when people still argue about Losman,Edwards when they're both so awful. Best point in the thread. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken crap. Every QB we have gotten since flutie has been flawed. Bledsoe had a terrible season before he got Mo Lewised and was doing the classic Bledsoe hold the bad too lng & take bad sacks before Buffalo. RJ was a 4th round draft pick who fell in the draft because their were questions about his work ethic and decision making. Losman wasn't a first rounder on many teams board and was only drafted by us because we missed out on Big Ben. Edwards was a 3rd round pick who couldn't be accurately judged because of injuries and lack of talent around him. None of these guys were sure things by any means. The most telling part about the quality of the Bills QBs is none of them have succeed since leaving Buffalo. The league is consistently looking for QBs anywhere. That's why guys like Warner and Garica come from the AFL and CFL to become pro bowlers. Guys like Akili Smith and Ryan for good sakes got 2nd chances. Gruden loved RJ's tools but when he played, he was the same old RJ and Gruden would flip out. Bledsoe was the same Bledsoe and lost his job to Romo. Losman can't even succeed in a minor league football league. They are bad QBs. I will say for Edwards even if he fizzles out here (which it's looking like), he will have a 10 year career as a 2nd string QB.
ricojes Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 No, we just pick crappy QB's to try and pass off as starters Sadly, that's the bottom line...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Ya know I've been thinking... Since 1999 we've had one QB who knew what he was doing, and as disappointing as he was it was Drew Bledsoe. Aside from him, we've had Rob Johnson, Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, JP Losman, and now Trent Edwards. Johnson had problems with holding the ball too long and either checking down or throwing a bomb. Van Pelt... God Bess him he tried. Kelly Holcomb: Captain Check down, took what defense gave him JP Losman: Long bombs or check down. Also held onto the ball too long Trent Edwards: Captain check down and is holding the ball too long. In college these guys threw down field. I know the pro game is a world of difference, but there can't be a single one of the QB's we had, excluding Van Pelt and Bledsoe, that didn't want to throw it to the starting wide receivers and not the running back or slot receiver. To me it's obvious that our last few coaches simply tell their QB's to take no risks with the football. QB is a position full of risks. Do you think Brett Favre wa thinking about throwing picks when he won that barn burner vs. San Fran a couple weeks ago? I know none of the guys we had are Favre, but even decent QB's take chances. It's like the Bills coach them to not lose instead of win. We sit here year after year blaming the QB's, when to me it's clearly a lack of confident coaching that just ruins the play of every QB we've had. Thoughts? Trent didnt throw downfield in college either and had only one 300 yard game and nearly a 1:1 TD to INT ratio...he is exactly who he was in college...
beerfriday Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I think there are aspects of Edwards game that have been trained into him as a response to Losman's failings. Essentially, he's being told, make good safe decisions fast to avoid taking sacks or making poor decisions like Losman. It's manifesting itself in a player unwilling or unprepared to take risks needed to win football games (though I agree the line sucks, but I do strongly feel Edwards' training has been a reaction to JP's failings)
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 I think there are aspects of Edwards game that have been trained into him as a response to Losman's failings. Essentially, he's being told, make good safe decisions fast to avoid taking sacks or making poor decisions like Losman. It's manifesting itself in a player unwilling or unprepared to take risks needed to win football games (though I agree the line sucks, but I do strongly feel Edwards' training has been a reaction to JP's failings) Agree to a certain point. But Brady (and I'm not comparing them) started out the same way as TE but learned to become more aggresive. On his deep throws, Trent is overthrowing his receivers so he definitely has the arm. But when you got what I still believe is a top 5 receiving core, you gotta let them make plays.
2003Contenders Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 When was the last time that the Bills had an honest to goodness OC? Ted Marchibroda?
Albany,n.y. Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 When was the last time that the Bills had an honest to goodness OC? Ted Marchibroda? Both Henning & Gilbride have thrived elsewhere after Buffalo. It's more related to the bad, coach killing players than the bad coaches. Until this team gets a decent offensive line, it's going to keep chewing up & spitting out QBs & OCs.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 Big Ben should count his blessings. He would be playing with Losman in the whatever league, if we drafted him.
Conch Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 It is very easy to find out where the problem is right now. Stick in Ryan Fitzpatrick. You will know in a quarter or two. He is used to throwing downfield. If he can't / doesn't with this team on the road against a good defense it is not the QB that is the problem. It would either be o-line or coaching. If he is successful as in the Bills hit some WRs and TEs more than 5 yards downfield the problem the last 5 games is easily diagnosed as the quarterback. What have we got to lose. Nothing.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted October 15, 2009 Posted October 15, 2009 It is very easy to find out where the problem is right now. Stick in Ryan Fitzpatrick. You will know in a quarter or two. He is used to throwing downfield. If he can't / doesn't with this team on the road against a good defense it is not the QB that is the problem. It would either be o-line or coaching. If he is successful as in the Bills hit some WRs and TEs more than 5 yards downfield the problem the last 5 games is easily diagnosed as the quarterback. What have we got to lose. Nothing.
BuffOrange Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 People always say the Bills haven't had a good QB since Kelly retired, yet we had 2 different QBs go to the Probowl for the Bills after Kelly retired. Both of them were run out of town...oh well. Can't tell if this is a joke or not, but Bledsoe was good for a half season, which was 1/6 of his time here. 7 games without an offensive TD in 2003 was more of an abortion than we give credit for (only because the current team is so pathetic).
AF88Bills Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Trent's yard per capita can't even touch Favre's or McNabb's. Both those players can throw downfield. Do you think Edwards can make the throw FAvre made to Greg Lewis to beat the Niners? The throws that McNabb made to Jeremy Maclin down the field? No way. One, the Vikes don't throw deep much...it's a timing offense and I think Trent wuold fit well. They have a good O-line, a solid running game, a decent coach...the pieces are in place. If the Eagles can make Kevin Kolb productive, they could surely make TE productive. You put McNabb behind our line and in our system, and he would struggle too. I definitely believe there's a lot of talent going to waste on this team and TE is a part of that.
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