OCinBuffalo Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 To sum it up: What has made America great is the concept of the "melting pot", not to be confused with the "everybody has to accommodate my culture because I am here now, legally or illegally" pot. We have benefited greatly from taking the best of each culture and making collectively "ours". But that also means that we have ignored the worst or each culture as well. Let's be clear: the "melting pot" hasn't been this wonderfully easy or straightforward process. Anyone who is truly familiar with our history, across the entire country, knows that immigrants of all races have been treated extremely poorly when they first get here. We have all heard the Polish, Irish, Italian Chinese jokes, etc., and those were all going strong right through the 80s, even though the mass emigrations from those countries occurred 60-150 years before 1990. The fact that I have yet to meet/see an excellent Asian driver, is beside the point But here's the big difference: my Polish grandmother insisted that I NOT learn Polish, and that I speak English, even though I was interested in learning it. That's right, we didn't need or have the government, or any other institution going around telling people that they needed to accommodate the Poles, or the Italians, or the Russians/Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Japanese or anybody else. Each culture that has come here has dealt with the same things, but, has also made a concerted effort to integrate into our society. Put simply: the current set of Spanish-speaking immigrants have not shown the same level of interest in "melting". Instead, they talk about how they are simply taking back the land that was stolen from them, aren't interested in integration, and in most cases, are simply here to make as much money as they can, and then return to their piss poor countries where they can live out their days as "wealthy" by their standards. Or, in the case of many Middle Eastern immigrants, want to set up shanty markets with no regard for law or taxes and turn our cities into bazaars, just like they have back home. The only real difference between then and now is: then we didn't have fools running around trying to tell us that we are racists because we insist that an immigrant group kick in and become Americans the same way we all have = serving in the military, paying taxes, working hard and raising their families AS Americans first. If anything, the REAL racists, like the ones that oppressed both sides of my family, are long gone, or, it's their liberal elitist children who are now telling us that we aren't supposed to expect the same treatment for new Americans that our families received. Yes, WASPs, this means you. Yes, most of this boils down to wealthy liberal guilt. And excuse me if I say: their families need to make up their minds one way or the other. Moving the goal posts, or, the finish line, to stay with the whole biking thing, to accommodate one immigrant group, when you have set up long standing rules for all the others, is simply not acceptable. The most truly American concept that we have is that "all men are created equal". If only it was written, instead of implied, that "what they do after they are created is on them". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 maybe you should explain me what the people of a french region have to do with american xenophobia... take it easy Algerian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Si Hablo Espinoza Cervaza please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frit0 Bandit0 Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Me thinks this whole bruhah was nothing was nothing more than a commercial interest. Don't bite, it was a gimmick. The NFL wants to play in Brazil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Me thinks this whole bruhah was nothing was nothing more than a commercial interest. Don't bite, it was a gimmick. The NFL wants to play in Brazil Shoot, I thought we were moving to TO. Now we're moving to Rio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 The question is this simple....why is it that when Amercians seek to protect their cultural institutions you see it as "xenophobic" but when the French and Europeans do it, its justified? where did i justify any european xenophobia?!! Xenophobia CAN NEVER be justified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Put simply: the current set of Spanish-speaking immigrants have not shown the same level of interest in "melting". that is soooo wrong... all studies indicate that NEVER in the history of the USA an immigrant wave has integrated as fast and as well as the hispanics wave of those last 20-25 years... i'm fed up with those legends of european immigrants learning english and integrating the american main stream immedialty in the "old days"... It took at least two whole generations for immigrants from non english speaking european countries to consider themselves americans with a good level in english and a full acceptance of american culture. The argument about hispanics giving back their "american money" to their country as an exemple that they don't want to integrate is just silly... this has ALWAYS happened . i live in basque country and you'll find around here dozens of "americanas", mansions built by basques coming "back home" in the earliest part of the XXth century after making money in the US or Latin America. You'll find the same thing in Sicily (where american money coming from the US immigrants was the first economic income of the island during the first part of the XXth century!), Italy or Ireland... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Take off the rose colored glasses and get back to me when one of those ethnicities are recognized. P.S. I am Italian and my ancestors came here legally. The melting pot was great back then and they ALL contributed to our society and even learned the language. Consider that this was written in 1915... Yes, 1915! Horace Kallen- The Nation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Consider that this was written in 1915... Yes, 1915! Horace Kallen- The Nation your link makes me think about the role the basque immigrants in America have played for the survival of the basque language. Historically a spoken and not written language, the immigration of basques from all the regions of the basque country in the USA has played a major role in the constitution of the modern "united basque" and in the buliding of the written version of this tongue. The first ever newpapers and magazines written in basque were printed in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 that is soooo wrong... all studies indicate that NEVER in the history of the USA an immigrant wave has integrated as fast and as well as the hispanics wave of those last 20-25 years... What studies are those? I've lived in CA for 26 years so I've seen the wave you're talking about first hand. When was the last time you were in East LA or Santa Ana? Try to read a billboard in those areas. Well I can because I had to learn Spanish to communicate with my employees, many of whom lived in the US longer than south of the border but spoke almost no Enlish. Studies don't mean squat to those of us that have lived it. Integration my ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Becuase you came here accusing those who seek to protect the American cultural integrity of American Foobtall of "xenophobia", while tacity ignoring how the French bend over backwards to protect the cultural identity of their flagship even, the Tour. THAT was my whole point! ??? you can not be critical about something happening overseas if 100% of the people living in your country is not perfect in that same field?!! Man that should end any debate in this World right now!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 When was the last time you were in East LA or Santa Ana? what about Brooklyn in the 1910ies? or South Boston in the 1930ies? or North Beach in SF in the 1940ies? or Lowell Mass in the 1900ies? btw what about learning some spanish? not only it could help you in East LA but you know there's a lot of great places from there to Chile... i'm glad i can speak to everybody in the Americas outside Brazil and the old Dutch colonies from Anchorage to Chile, from Quebec City to Buenos Aires ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 ??? you can not be critical about something happening overseas if 100% of the people living in your country is not perfect in that same field?!! Man that should end any debate in this World right now!!!! No, but you should probably avoid drawing broad generalizations about specific nationalities when those same generalizations apply to your own. When Europeans - traditionally, very xenophobic - complain about "American xenophobia", it's not an entirely credible complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 No, but you should probably avoid drawing broad generalizations about specific nationalities when those same generalizations apply to your own. When Europeans - traditionally, very xenophobic - complain about "American xenophobia", it's not an entirely credible complaint. where did i generalize? i said i could not understand" xenophobia coming from americans", that does not mean all americans are xenophobs! i know this board that is about 80% full of xenophobs is not representative of the USA, that is thanks God a lot more tolerant than that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 what about Brooklyn in the 1910ies? or South Boston in the 1930ies? or North Beach in SF in the 1940ies? or Lowell Mass in the 1900ies? btw what about learning some spanish? not only it could help you in East LA but you know there's a lot of great places from there to Chile... i'm glad i can speak to everybody in the Americas outside Brazil and the old Dutch colonies from Anchorage to Chile, from Quebec City to Buenos Aires ... But me having to learn Spanish is my point regarding the lack of assimilation by the Hispanics. Instead of them taking the time to learn English I was forced to learn their language to communicate with them. And regarding your other city analogies. I've been to North Beach in SF, the North End in Boston and they have assimilated quit nicely. I don't see that happening in East LA or Santa Ana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I got JA and DCT agreeing with me on the same day. Thats a good or bad thing...Im not sure. Probably good. Whoa there, wait a minute, back up there skippy. I didn't even read your posts, so I'm not agreeing with you, you're agreeing with me. Big difference there - it's the difference between the horsemen of the apocalypse and a blind squirrel finding a nut every once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I got JA and DCT agreeing with me on the same day. Thats a good or bad thing...Im not sure. Probably good. Nice! Why don't you get a room Gidge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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