"Can real fans root against their team?"

[Clippers of Nfl]

To the threads' question; Yes, but..

 

In '68 we were neck & neck with Philly for the '69 first overall draft pick. We won only one game and tied Miami which gave Philly the tie-breaker until they won 2 games in a row just before the finale. We came dangerously close to winning a couple games late in the year as the 'legend' of Ed Rutkowski blossomed and it came down to us @ Houston. In what would become pernenial, the Bills -THANKFULLY 'ran for the bus' and got creamed, sealing our fate with one OJ Simpson. We had to lose to get better, and we did.

 

In '84, Houston had won their 3rd game with 2 to play while we won our 2nd the same week. We almost screwed up and beat the Jets week 15 but 'ran for the bus' and got blown out by Cinci in the final. That 'wished for' loss gave us Bruce Smith. Can you imagine him as an Oiler for 13 years??

 

There are times when losing is the best thing. These 2 'hoped for' losses gave us 2 HOFer's.

 

As for Sunday, if Ralph made it known that a loss would be Jauron's swansong, how many of you would still hope for a win??

 

great reply by the way.

i agree with you to a certain point. but the season is not fully lost yet. at least not in my eyes. what if by way of miracle we beat the browns, jets, and panthers??? our record would stand at 4-3. i wouldnt throw our season. at least not me.

[Guest dog14787]

Depends. Assuming the loss, and the change takes place during the following week, then probably not. Changing the HC during the season pretty much means the FO has "given up" the season.

 

As bad as Jauron is (and he really is ugly bad), he stills give the Bills the "best" chance to win every week during the season.

 

Do you honestly believe that when every day more and more of DJ rubs off on our players.

 

In my opinion Bobby April could spark the Buffalo Bills into making things interesting.

[Clippers of Nfl]

I've never been able to even when I couldn't stand the direction the team was going. And I certainly wouldn't this early in this season. I think the sane approach is to root for them to win but just don't freak out if they lose. Others will do that for you.

 

i could understand how apathy has emerged. losing to miami when most of us saw that as a win....its still too early to give up like you say and especially when we will kick @ this weekend. (wishful thinking)

[Clippers of Nfl]

I'm not rooting against them but they have finally made me not care about them anymore. I'm blowing off the Browns game and I may not even watch it on TV. We've given Ralph a 10 year mulligan. If he can give up on his team, why can't we?

 

PTR

 

TO PTR, U DONT WANT TO SEE T.O. AND LYNCH SCORE A TOUCHDOWN EACH?? U BETTER WATCH THIS GAME. THIS IS PROBABLY OUR LAST WIN. U BETTER SAVOR THE MOMENT.

[Clippers of Nfl]

Right ... if you're rooting against them, then at least you still care ...

 

It's not that one is rooting against them just to root against them ... it's to precipitate a change. DJ needs to go, and even a win over the equally hapless Browns won't change that ... going 7-9 again ... won't change that.

 

am i the only loser that prefers 7-9 over 1-15. like other posters have mentioned, getting a top 5 draft will not ensure a good thing. here is a new term FIRST ROUND BUSTS happen. and trust me, they happen a lot.

[voodoo poonani]

I'm Joe in WIchita, KS. I am one of the people quoted by Tim Graham that led to that article. There are a few things I want to clear up. I am a Buffalo Bills fan. I have been all my life (I was born in WNY). That said, yes I want the current Bills team to lose all their remaining games. Why? Because that is the only way we will see change come about after the season. If we go 7-9 again, you can bet they'll be making all kinds of excuses at OBD to justify bringing everybody back to try again next year. Jauron has never had "it" against winning teams (I think his record is something like 2-21 against teams with winning records). The group this year doesn't appear to be even trying (I've watched all the games). Players have even been quoted as saying they've been relaxing their technique, or that they may have taken some plays off. That is completely unacceptable. No fiery coach would accept that kind of behavior from their players. What did Jauron say? "They played really hard." He's been saying that for over three years. It seems as though the team has gotten worse every year, not better. TO has been squandered, and I'm sure he'll just wade through the rest of the season hoping someone else takes a shot at him in FA. The offensive line is terrible, but that should be expected with the collective lack of experience they have. The linebacking corps is a joke, who ever thought Marcus Buggs could be a LB in the NFL should be immediately fired. The team is supposed to be built around the offensive and defensive side of the ball, not special teams. Which really worked out by the way because we have the most penalized special teams in the league. Because I love my team, YES LOVE MY TEAM! I want the status quo to change. I want actual LEADERSHIP brought in. I want someone who actually knows how to inspire players to be better than they are. I want ... apparently Bill Bellicheck.

[C.Biscuit97]

No

[Cynical]

[/b]

 

Do you honestly believe that when every day more and more of DJ rubs off on our players.

 

In my opinion Bobby April could spark the Buffalo Bills into making things interesting.

 

I get the concept of "Well, the Bills are going to suck regardless, so why not change? What's the worst that will happen? We win?"

And "The faster we part ways with Dick, the faster the team can rebuild."

 

The problem is firing the HC during the season rarely results in producing a winning season. Playoffs? Forget it.

And unless you plan on making some other coach presently on the team the head coach after the year, disposing of Dick now will do nothing in 'speeding' up the rebuilding. The new HC will probably want to select his own staff, and install his own schemes.

 

There is one more point. The players love "Dick". Firing Jauron now, and installing April as the HC may not go over well with the players. They may just quit on the organization for this year, preferring to take their chances next year with the new HC.

[LGB]

I get the concept of "Well, the Bills are going to suck regardless, so why not change? What's the worst that will happen? We win?"

And "The faster we part ways with Dick, the faster the team can rebuild."

 

The problem is firing the HC during the season rarely results in producing a winning season. Playoffs? Forget it.

And unless you plan on making some other coach presently on the team the head coach after the year, disposing of Dick now will do nothing in 'speeding' up the rebuilding. The new HC will probably want to select his own staff, and install his own schemes.

 

There is one more point. The players love "Dick". Firing Jauron now, and installing April as the HC may not go over well with the players. They may just quit on the organization for this year, preferring to take their chances next year with the new HC.

Guys getting paid millions of dollars quit? Not sure, but any video of them "quitting" might not go over too well with the new coach or any other team in the future.

[Cynical]

Guys getting paid millions of dollars quit? Not sure, but any video of them "quitting" might not go over too well with the new coach or any other team in the future.

 

'Quit' as in 'just going through the motions'. Not giving a crap if they win or lose.

 

I know, I know. How can we tell now.

[LGB]

I'm Joe in WIchita, KS. I am one of the people quoted by Tim Graham that led to that article. There are a few things I want to clear up. I am a Buffalo Bills fan. I have been all my life (I was born in WNY). That said, yes I want the current Bills team to lose all their remaining games. Why? Because that is the only way we will see change come about after the season. If we go 7-9 again, you can bet they'll be making all kinds of excuses at OBD to justify bringing everybody back to try again next year. Jauron has never had "it" against winning teams (I think his record is something like 2-21 against teams with winning records). The group this year doesn't appear to be even trying (I've watched all the games). Players have even been quoted as saying they've been relaxing their technique, or that they may have taken some plays off. That is completely unacceptable. No fiery coach would accept that kind of behavior from their players. What did Jauron say? "They played really hard." He's been saying that for over three years. It seems as though the team has gotten worse every year, not better. TO has been squandered, and I'm sure he'll just wade through the rest of the season hoping someone else takes a shot at him in FA. The offensive line is terrible, but that should be expected with the collective lack of experience they have. The linebacking corps is a joke, who ever thought Marcus Buggs could be a LB in the NFL should be immediately fired. The team is supposed to be built around the offensive and defensive side of the ball, not special teams. Which really worked out by the way because we have the most penalized special teams in the league. Because I love my team, YES LOVE MY TEAM! I want the status quo to change. I want actual LEADERSHIP brought in. I want someone who actually knows how to inspire players to be better than they are. I want ... apparently Bill Bellicheck.

Should Bills fans be happy with 7-9? That is the question it seems because so far we have demonstrated at the box office that 7-9 or a below average team for 10 years is better than no team.

 

Speaking of bad teams, how about the Chiefs? Is Larry Johnson just used up with no gas left in the tank or what?

[LGB]

'Quit' as in 'just going through the motions'. Not giving a crap if they win or lose.

 

I know, I know. How can we tell now.

Well you have a good point...if the owner and organization think 7-9 is acceptable, then it might be possible that kind of mentality could be rubbing off on some players and maybe this year we end up 1-15.

[Guest dog14787]

I get the concept of "Well, the Bills are going to suck regardless, so why not change? What's the worst that will happen? We win?"

And "The faster we part ways with Dick, the faster the team can rebuild."

 

The problem is firing the HC during the season rarely results in producing a winning season. Playoffs? Forget it.

And unless you plan on making some other coach presently on the team the head coach after the year, disposing of Dick now will do nothing in 'speeding' up the rebuilding. The new HC will probably want to select his own staff, and install his own schemes.

 

There is one more point. The players love "Dick". Firing Jauron now, and installing April as the HC may not go over well with the players. They may just quit on the organization for this year, preferring to take their chances next year with the new HC.

 

 

Trent Edwards made a comment post game after the loss to the Dolphins that to me characterizes our head coach. Come with solutions, don't come with questions is what DJ is telling his players. Doesn't sound like much does it, but think about it, Come with solutions, don't come with questions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what a coach does, he comes up with solutions. He answers the question of why something will and will not work. He Comes up with the schemes and all the right plays at all the right times because thats what a coach does and then players execute.

 

Telling your players to be part of the solution and not part of the problem I can understand, but don't ask your players to do your job which is to answer those questions.

 

 

I've seen and heard enough of DJ's coaching to last me a lifetime.

 

 

I'm repeating my post because I want folks to understand. Its not about quitting or playing hard for their coach, its about having the right answers. Trent Edwards Post game interview gave everyone an inside look and feel for what went on after the Dolphins game when Dick Jauron addressed the players. It also gave you an inside feel for what once was a very confident and intelligent QB at the starting position.

 

We have a timid, lost looking coach and that's exactly what we get on the field. As long as we have a glorified DB coach running this football team we will never, I repeat never be playoff caliber and there's nothing DJ can do about it,

 

and the only answer is change...

[Orton's Arm]

Can real fans root against their team?

 

 

I'm not at that point, and I'm not sure I ever could be. Think I'd stop caring first ... and that's getting closer and closer to happening.

Sometimes a team is better off in the long run if it has one or two 1-15 or 2-14 seasons. You often see a lot of elite, game changing players in the top 5 of the draft--especially first overall.

 

I'd much rather this team go 1-15 than 6-10. Granted, I'd much rather have the Bills win the Super Bowl this year, but--and I know I'm going out on a limb here--I don't think that's overly likely to happen.

[Chandler#81]

I'm Joe in WIchita, KS. I am one of the people quoted by Tim Graham that led to that article. There are a few things I want to clear up. I am a Buffalo Bills fan. I have been all my life (I was born in WNY). That said, yes I want the current Bills team to lose all their remaining games. Why? Because that is the only way we will see change come about after the season. If we go 7-9 again, you can bet they'll be making all kinds of excuses at OBD to justify bringing everybody back to try again next year. Jauron has never had "it" against winning teams (I think his record is something like 2-21 against teams with winning records). The group this year doesn't appear to be even trying (I've watched all the games). Players have even been quoted as saying they've been relaxing their technique, or that they may have taken some plays off. That is completely unacceptable. No fiery coach would accept that kind of behavior from their players. What did Jauron say? "They played really hard." He's been saying that for over three years. It seems as though the team has gotten worse every year, not better. TO has been squandered, and I'm sure he'll just wade through the rest of the season hoping someone else takes a shot at him in FA. The offensive line is terrible, but that should be expected with the collective lack of experience they have. The linebacking corps is a joke, who ever thought Marcus Buggs could be a LB in the NFL should be immediately fired. The team is supposed to be built around the offensive and defensive side of the ball, not special teams. Which really worked out by the way because we have the most penalized special teams in the league. Because I love my team, YES LOVE MY TEAM! I want the status quo to change. I want actual LEADERSHIP brought in. I want someone who actually knows how to inspire players to be better than they are. I want ... apparently Bill Bellicheck.

 

 

Hi Joe. I feel your pain!

 

Welcome to the board!

[Cynical]

Trent Edwards made a comment post game after the loss to the Dolphins that to me characterizes our head coach. Come with solutions, don't come with questions is what DJ is telling his players. Doesn't sound like much does it, but think about it, Come with solutions, don't come with questions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what a coach does, he comes up with solutions. He answers the question of why something will and will not work. He Comes up with the schemes and all the right plays at all the right times because thats what a coach does and then players execute.

 

Telling your players to be part of the solution and not part of the problem I can understand, but don't ask your players to do your job which is to answer those questions.

 

 

I've seen and heard enough of DJ's coaching to last me a lifetime.

 

 

I'm repeating my post because I want folks to understand. Its not about quitting or playing hard for their coach, its about having the right answers. Trent Edwards Post game interview gave everyone an inside look and feel for what went on after the Dolphins game when Dick Jauron addressed the players. It also gave you an inside feel for what once was a very confident and intelligent QB at the starting position.

 

We have a timid, lost looking coach and that's exactly what we get on the field. As long as we have a glorified DB coach running this football team we will never, I repeat never be playoff caliber and there's nothing DJ can do about it,

 

and the only answer is change...

 

I agree change is the only answer. But as I keep stating, changing right NOW will have little to impact on the team, both short and long term. In fact, changing now may be worse in the short term.

 

There is only 1 exception to that rule: If the HC they hire NOW is expected to be the HC next year (ala Singletary in SF)

[voodoo poonani]

Hi Joe. I feel your pain!

 

Welcome to the board!

 

Thanks. I didn't know one comment to TIm Graham would start an article, that would lead to a whole forum discussion. Usually, Mark Gaughan is the only one who responds to my questions/comments.

[BillsfaninFl]

A fan, by the very definition of the term, can not root against ther team. Yes, the Bills blow. Yes, they've blown for quite a few years. Yes, the HC should have been fired 2 years ago. Yes, the owner needs to spend big money on a new HC. Yes, this team will suck the very life from your soul.

 

But, none of that matters. They're still the BUFFALO Bills. I'll watch every game possible. I'll be a little happy when they win. Depressed when they lose. Why? Because I'm a fan.

 

When you cheer against a team or you no longer watch the games or follow the team, you're no longer a fan - period. You're just another person who occasionally watches. A fan is there through the thick and thin (granted it's nano fiber thin right now); not just when the team is doing well or doing things they like.

 

Yes, complain. Yes, boo when they screw up on the field. Yes, find voice your displeasure. But, cheering against the team - hoping they lose - regardless of the rationalization is not what a real fan does.

 

 

Amen. I am currently pissed at the way Wilson is keeping his dubloons in the Bills vault, screwing the loyal fans and community. But I will not root against the team. And please... don't anyone say that we can get a higher draft choice. We have seen what the Bills do with high draft choices.

 

 

Sell the team, Ralph. Go out on a high note.

[Guest dog14787]

Damn it

 

Said I was going to do one thing, but I'm doing another, just put on my best good luck Bills attire and although I'm relying on the internet feeds to watch the game, I'm backing my football team.

 

I'm all talk

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Orton's Arm]

Amen. I am currently pissed at the way Wilson is keeping his dubloons in the Bills vault, screwing the loyal fans and community. But I will not root against the team. And please... don't anyone say that we can get a higher draft choice. We have seen what the Bills do with high draft choices.

 

 

Sell the team, Ralph. Go out on a high note.

Since 1980, the Bills have had exactly two picks in the top five of the draft. The first of those was Bruce Smith (1st overall, 1985). The second was Mike Williams (4th overall, 2002).

 

Today's ugly loss to Cleveland really helped boost this team's stock in the upcoming draft. Not only did we lose to a team we could have beaten (always a positive from a draft perspective), but we stuck the Browns with a win. Which is a great thing, considering that the Browns are one of the teams we're likely to be competing against for draft position.