Thoner7 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Ellison is not making mistakes - that is the reason he continues to start. Of all the people on the defense, he is known to "play his position". He is where he is supposed to be on the plays that are called. His issue is that he is not as talented as other players on the field and gets beat. That is why Buggs got pulled. He may have the talent, but doesn't do what he is supposed to. As Fewell said, there were mistakes. When players don't do what they are supposed to, they leave gaping holes. Typically, those are the players who you only see on the fantastic plays, however when they are doing something they are not supposed to be doing, they are often so out of position that you don't even realize they were supposed to be there. (Angelo Crowell was a perfect example of this). "If you look at the tape and as I looked at it with the entire defense there were 26 plays and there was a mistake made on every play," said Fewell. "They did not do that in practice. For whatever reason, I don’t know, they didn’t fit it and didn’t get it done like we wanted to get it done and so I’m not going to stand there and say, ‘Well that’s okay fellas, we’re going to put the same guys on the field and do the same thing again.’ Bullcrap. We’re going to get it right."[/quote] So is your claim that the coaches KNOW Ellison is 100% incapable of performing his role in the D yet STILL insist on starting him? Admitting he simply cannot get it done is worse than any number of mental mistakes. PS I disagree 50%. Ellison does attempt to cover the right guy most the time, but I wouldnt consider it coverage because his man is open 100% of the time. On run plays however he is out of position 95% of the time. Always over pursueing, never taking on lead blocks properly etc. Go back and watch all the Miami TD runs and he is out of position/getting manhandled by FBs on every one. Go back and watch the Saints game. On everyone of their big runs in the second half the Bills D put Ellison in perfect position to make a tackle and he whiffed. Buggs was bad, but Ellison is worse and the more he plays the more obvious it becomes. No you're not Perry, Ellison is still on the field.
SteamRoller67 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Ellison's the one making all the mistakes, but Buggs gets pulled? Which Bills player(s) were held back for too long? And how many times were they played out of necessity, forcing the coaching staff to throw them in there? If they weren't put in out of necessity, then they were put in when they were "ready" and therefore looked good, right? What are you talking about? Ellison has been the best LBer on the Bills this year. Buggs is getting blown off the LOS...he's 223 pounds. He may have an NFL future, but he needs to get bigger or be moved outside.
The Big Cat Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Are you kidding? Buggs' play (from what I have seen) has been absolutely atrocious. He constantly appears to be out of position, allowing big runs up the gut of the defense. I don't recall ever seeing Buggs make any kind of play in the 3 games that he has been in there. Ellison, on the other hand, has been in on several of the 4th down stops and is getting good penetration on edge rushes. Of course, I am no expert. Just a fan watching the game on TV. Ellison is not making mistakes - that is the reason he continues to start. Of all the people on the defense, he is known to "play his position". He is where he is supposed to be on the plays that are called. His issue is that he is not as talented as other players on the field and gets beat. That is why Buggs got pulled. He may have the talent, but doesn't do what he is supposed to. As Fewell said, there were mistakes. When players don't do what they are supposed to, they leave gaping holes. Typically, those are the players who you only see on the fantastic plays, however when they are doing something they are not supposed to be doing, they are often so out of position that you don't even realize they were supposed to be there. (Angelo Crowell was a perfect example of this). "If you look at the tape and as I looked at it with the entire defense there were 26 plays and there was a mistake made on every play," said Fewell. "They did not do that in practice. For whatever reason, I don’t know, they didn’t fit it and didn’t get it done like we wanted to get it done and so I’m not going to stand there and say, ‘Well that’s okay fellas, we’re going to put the same guys on the field and do the same thing again.’ Bullcrap. We’re going to get it right." What are you talking about? Ellison has been the best LBer on the Bills this year. Buggs is getting blown off the LOS...he's 223 pounds. He may have an NFL future, but he needs to get bigger or be moved outside. Oh, I know. I was responding to this from the OP: With Mitchell moving to MLB, why are Palmer and Ellison playing and Harris not. This kid showed himself to be a monster in the pre-season. He's a rookie, but so is Palmer, he'll make rookie mistakes, but Ellison has already made more stupid mistakes in the last three games than most rookies make in a season. I just don't get it. EDIT: just so we're clear, I did a poor job of conveying my support for Ellison. All the above posters were correct in pointing out the absurdity of the question: Ellison makes all the mistakes, but Buggs gets pulled? But the question was initially posed to indicate the absurdity of the OP's initial implication that this was the case.
The Big Cat Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Sh*t man you are watching one right now in Ellison playing over Harris. Dont even try to defend Jaurons and Co. abilty to evaluate talent because you simply can not win. The statemeant "They are NFL coaches, they know more than you" statement doesnt even hold water anymore. Any idiot could never make the playoffs and never beat a playoff team. Right, okay. So, rather than substantiate the claim, just speculate.
Mr. T Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 Right, okay. So, rather than substantiate the claim, just speculate. You are really impressed with yourself aren't ya. What exactly have you done to substantiate your positions? What you have claimed throughout this thread is "your" speculative opinion. Yet, you challenge other opinions stating they fail to be supported by facts. Bottom line in this thread is, in my opinion, not supported by fact (sorry), Harris ought to be starting this weekend. Our coaching staff, in my opinion, yeah I know, not supported by facts, is too inept to see this. It's this same ineptitude, or lack of foresight, that has us fielding an entire OL consisting of a first time starter at C, 2 rookies at G, and 2 journeyman (if that) at T. They also field a team with 2 WRs that can stretch the field, but have a QB who is afraid to throw the ball down field. I could go on and on, but its all just more speculation. Forgive me.
John from Riverside Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 What are you talking about? Ellison has been the best LBer on the Bills this year. Buggs is getting blown off the LOS...he's 223 pounds. He may have an NFL future, but he needs to get bigger or be moved outside. Actually I think it says a lot that Ellison IS the LB making the fewest mistakes.....that means we are not doing so well.... We have a good defense when other players are playing so well they make up for Ellison's weaknesses on the field....and believe me they are there even though he does make a play every now and then.
nuklz2594 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Harris I believe started out as a linebacker and was converted to safety at Oklahoma. He is a big guy to play safety, reminds me of Steve Atwater size wise.
GOBILLS78 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 For the life of me I can't understand why Nic Harris is not starting this week. With Mitchell moving to MLB, why are Palmer and Ellison playing and Harris not. This kid showed himself to be a monster in the pre-season. Harris had a nice camp. That's different from being a "monster."
Thoner7 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Right, okay. So, rather than substantiate the claim, just speculate. I am not speculating. Ellison sucks - that is fact. Watch all three TD runs vrs Miami and all the long runs vrs NO. Watch Ellison. If you know anything about playing LB, filling holes, taking on blocks, forcing plays back inside, you will notice just how bad he is. If you would like to argue otherwise, please provide video evidence.
manbeast Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Ellison's the one making all the mistakes, but Buggs gets pulled? Which Bills player(s) were held back for too long? And how many times were they played out of necessity, forcing the coaching staff to throw them in there? If they weren't put in out of necessity, then they were put in when they were "ready" and therefore looked good, right? Ellison is fourth in the league in tackles really wish some of you would do your homework before player hatin
The Big Cat Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Ellison is fourth in the league in tackles really wish some of you would do your homework before player hatin Oh for crying out loud! I wasn't bashing him! I think you meant to address this guy: I am not speculating. Ellison sucks - that is fact. Watch all three TD runs vrs Miami and all the long runs vrs NO. Watch Ellison. If you know anything about playing LB, filling holes, taking on blocks, forcing plays back inside, you will notice just how bad he is. If you would like to argue otherwise, please provide video evidence. ------------- You are really impressed with yourself aren't ya. What exactly have you done to substantiate your positions? What you have claimed throughout this thread is "your" speculative opinion. Yet, you challenge other opinions stating they fail to be supported by facts. Bottom line in this thread is, in my opinion, not supported by fact (sorry), Harris ought to be starting this weekend. Our coaching staff, in my opinion, yeah I know, not supported by facts, is too inept to see this. It's this same ineptitude, or lack of foresight, that has us fielding an entire OL consisting of a first time starter at C, 2 rookies at G, and 2 journeyman (if that) at T. They also field a team with 2 WRs that can stretch the field, but have a QB who is afraid to throw the ball down field. I could go on and on, but its all just more speculation. Forgive me. Dude, I'm clearly the most impressive human who ever lived, way to stick to the obvious. Also, the last time I checked, you can't speculate something that never happened, in this case- our coaching staff holding back otherwise more talented player. Although, since you clearly have no regard for any kind of facts, I suppose it's appropriate you'd be flaming me for holding others to them. So, my question do you is: if Nic Harris is so much better, than why are they going with an undrafted free agent? Just to !@#$ with the fan base?
PDaDdy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Sh*t man you are watching one right now in Ellison playing over Harris. Dont even try to defend Jaurons and Co. abilty to evaluate talent because you simply can not win. The statemeant "They are NFL coaches, they know more than you" statement doesnt even hold water anymore. Any idiot could never make the playoffs and never beat a playoff team. You should apply for a coaching position. I'm sure the employers in the NFL agree with you. LOL.
billnutinphoenix Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 For the life of me I can't understand why Nic Harris is not starting this week. With Mitchell moving to MLB, why are Palmer and Ellison playing and Harris not. This kid showed himself to be a monster in the pre-season. He's a rookie, but so is Palmer, he'll make rookie mistakes, but Ellison has already made more stupid mistakes in the last three games than most rookies make in a season. I just don't get it. And I don't buy anymore that the coaching staff knows better who should start. Have ya noticed that this coaching staff has a way of eventually doing things that the fans have tossed around. What is really screwed up is it isn't because they come to boards like this and get ideas from us. It just seems like they are the last ones to see the obvious and are always two steps behind playing catch up. Bills fan for life, but it has come with such a painful price! I can understand why...Dick Jauron is head coach...
Mr. T Posted October 10, 2009 Author Posted October 10, 2009 Oh for crying out loud! I wasn't bashing him! I think you meant to address this guy: ------------- Dude, I'm clearly the most impressive human who ever lived, way to stick to the obvious. Also, the last time I checked, you can't speculate something that never happened, in this case- our coaching staff holding back otherwise more talented player. Although, since you clearly have no regard for any kind of facts, I suppose it's appropriate you'd be flaming me for holding others to them. So, my question do you is: if Nic Harris is so much better, than why are they going with an undrafted free agent? Just to !@#$ with the fan base? So, my question do you is: if Nic Harris is so much better, than why are they going with an undrafted free agent? Ahhhh, maybe because they are the same guys that felt Buggs would do fine in the middle. If this was just about any other coaching staff I give them the benefit of knowing whats best for the team. This whole organization has a problem with evaluating talent. Evidence - Dockery, Walker, Kelsey, McCargo, Simpson, Parrish, Losman, Preston, (last year's starting center, whose name slips my mind). Need anymore?
K-9 Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Harris I believe started out as a linebacker and was converted to safety at Oklahoma. He is a big guy to play safety, reminds me of Steve Atwater size wise. Steve Atwater was one of the best ever to play the position. Glad to see him mentioned. What he and Smith did to Kelly and the K-Gun as a safety tandem in the 1991 AFC finals was amazing. Those two had Kelly confused the entire afternoon. Just a great display of perfect safety play. It allowed Denver's defense to do a lot of things. If Harris had anywhere near Atwater's speed, I believe he would be a safety in the NFL. And a good one. I'd like to see what the kid can do at OLB though. Seems to always be around the ball. GO BILLS!!!
The Big Cat Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 Ahhhh, maybe because they are the same guys that felt Buggs would do fine in the middle. If this was just about any other coaching staff I give them the benefit of knowing whats best for the team. This whole organization has a problem with evaluating talent. Evidence - Dockery, Walker, Kelsey, McCargo, Simpson, Parrish, Losman, Preston, (last year's starting center, whose name slips my mind). Need anymore? All fair points, but you have to play the players you have. You can't conjure them from the ether.
Mr. T Posted October 10, 2009 Author Posted October 10, 2009 All fair points, but you have to play the players you have. You can't conjure them from the ether. But you have to play the players you have. My point exactly!! Nic Harris ought to be playing! Just my opinion, no facts to support it.
The Big Cat Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 My point exactly!! Nic Harris ought to be playing! Just my opinion, no facts to support it. And you are entitled to that opinion...
StupidNation Posted October 11, 2009 Posted October 11, 2009 something that never happened, in this case- our coaching staff holding back otherwise more talented player. Although, since you clearly have no regard for any kind of facts, I suppose it's appropriate you'd be flaming me for holding others to them. So, my question do you is: if Nic Harris is so much better, than why are they going with an undrafted free agent? Just to !@#$ with the fan base? Well it's happened a few times that I can think of... Anthony Thomas over Fred Jackson, JP over Holcomb (hard to compare who is worse, but JP is worse), Hardy over Johnson last year, throwing Maybin at DE over Ellis... Should I go on?
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