Gary M Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 If the Bills were 3-1 would this even be a topic? I hate losing.
PDaDdy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 If the Bills were 3-1 would this even be a topic? I hate losing. If Trent was still playing this bad but somehow we were magically winning ....YES!!! Until we finally get a good franchise QB with both a brain and an arm we will be discussing the current guy vs the last guy for a while.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Captain Checkdown has won "a lot more games than JP" ???? Really????? I've got 'Trenters' down as having 13 wins (and 14 losses) as a Bills starting QB, and JP with 12 wins - maybe someone can verify those #'s, and maybe someone else can verify whether 1 win constitutes "a lot more wins than JP" Losman was 10-23 as a starter. Edwards is 13-14 as a starter. Losman's winning % is 12 points lower than Jauron's. Why does this fact escape you? I'm done with this. Except for 5 games or so, he was a really bad NFL QB. He could threw for 9 million tds in a league of has beens and never was. It doesn't matter. He failed as a Bills' QB and that's all that matters.
Guest dog14787 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 If Trent was still playing this bad but somehow we were magically winning ....YES!!! Until we finally get a good franchise QB with both a brain and an arm we will be discussing the current guy vs the last guy for a while. One thing nobody can take away from JP, he has a cannon of an arm.
StupidNation Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 The same JP who threw for 75 yards in 2 games in a row? The same guy who would skip bounces to WRs? The guy who just never seemed to understand how to play football in the NFL? I'm not saying Trent is good, but you cannot compare the 2. Trent is much better, not based on #s strictly, although they favor him in efficiency, but if you watch the game it's a no-contest. Most of JPs #s were in garbage times in blow-outs, whereas Trent is just beginning to part of the blow-out machine that is the 2009 Buf Bills!!
shrader Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Captain Checkdown has won "a lot more games than JP" ???? Really????? I've got 'Trenters' down as having 13 wins (and 14 losses) as a Bills starting QB, and JP with 12 wins - maybe someone can verify those #'s, and maybe someone else can verify whether 1 win constitutes "a lot more wins than JP" I always hated the argument that one guy was winning more than the other. It always came across as such a cherry picking stat. Games like the Cards game last year where Trent got hurt on the first drive would be counted against Losman, but for some reason, if the same thing happened and the team won the game, they'd count it towards Edwards' record. I know that happened two seasons ago when JP replaced Edwards and put up big numbers, beating (I believe) the Bengals. Then there was the Losman injury at the start of the season against New England 2 years ago. He got in one or two drives and yet was still blamed for the loss. It seemed like anytime a QB change happened in game, the negative was always thrown towards Losman while Edwards always got the free pass. edit: And I'm in no way trying to defend Losman. He failed and there's no arguing that. I just never understood why Edwards was always given so much praise.
PDaDdy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Losman was 10-23 as a starter. Edwards is 13-14 as a starter. Losman's winning % is 12 points lower than Jauron's. Why does this fact escape you? I'm done with this. Except for 5 games or so, he was a really bad NFL QB. He could threw for 9 million tds in a league of has beens and never was. It doesn't matter. He failed as a Bills' QB and that's all that matters. Entire teams have win and loss records. The opponents record as a reflection of how good they are as a team has a lot to do with it as well. Tell me how many of Trent's 13 wins came against teams that had a BETTER than .500 record
The Senator Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 It could be true. Other than that the guy played mistake free, winning football. The fact that 32 GMs wanted no part of him is sheer either coincidence, ot that 1 bad play. Excellent point, Bill. That 32 GMs took passed on JP just about says it all because, as we all know, they have an uncanny knack for always being right. Just like all 32 of 'em were when let Tom Brady sit until the 6th round of the draft, or when they all took a pass on... Kurt Warner Jeff Garcia Tony Romo Warren Moon Jake Delhomme Adam Vinatieri London Fletcher Pat Williams Antonio Pierce Antonio Gates Wes Welker Brain Waters Priest Holmes Jeff Saturday Willie Parker James Harrison Rod Smith John Randle and, of course, a favorite of yours, mine, and Bills fans everywhere... Jason Peters No question JP was 'damaged goods' after 5 years in the circus known as the Buffalo Bills...ahem...'organization' - but I think that, especially after watching them screw with your boy Trent Edwards, even you would have to agree that the Bills hold a fair share of the blame for Losman's development - or lack thereof - as a QB. It'll be a real hoot if JP Losman returns to the NFL in 2 years, and emerges as one of the better QBs in the league, no?
PDaDdy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Most of JPs #s were in garbage times in blow-outs, whereas Trent is just beginning to part of the blow-out machine that is the 2009 Buf Bills!! WRONG!!! JP put up TDs and numbers all throughout the game. Stop alleging things you have no proof of!!!!
Magox Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 WRONG!!! JP put up TDs and numbers all throughout the game. Stop alleging things you have no proof of!!!! still hurts doesn't it?
Marv Levy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I watched the 2nd half. Have to say JP looked pretty good. Had a couple bullet throws to the wideouts. Good stats. Pretty entertaining game. One thing that is definitely better about the UFL than the NFL, is that I don't have to view a freakin annoying television ad every gdam 3 minutes like I do when watching a NFL game! The are called the Locos, because Las Vegas had a large locomotive train presence when the town started in the early 1900's. At least that's what the Review Journal Newspaper told me.
The Senator Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 still hurts doesn't it? I wouldn't say it 'hurts' - it's just sadly disappointing that Losman was unable to succeed here, whatever the cause. What will 'hurt' is when he returns to the NFL in 2 seasons - wearing orange and teal - and leads the Dolphins to the playoffs, while the Bills still languish in the cellar.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Entire teams have win and loss records. The opponents record as a reflection of how good they are as a team has a lot to do with it as well. Tell me how many of Trent's 13 wins came against teams that had a BETTER than .500 record Explain how Holcomb and Edwards both replaced JP during the season and each had much better records with the same team.
Albany,n.y. Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Excellent point, Bill. That 32 GMs took passed on JP just about says it all because, as we all know, they have an uncanny knack for always being right. Just like all 32 of 'em were when let Tom Brady sit until the 6th round of the draft, or when they all took a pass on... Kurt Warner Jeff Garcia Tony Romo Warren Moon Jake Delhomme Adam Vinatieri London Fletcher Pat Williams Antonio Pierce Antonio Gates Wes Welker Brain Waters Priest Holmes Jeff Saturday Willie Parker James Harrison Rod Smith John Randle and, of course, a favorite of yours, mine, and Bills fans everywhere... Jason Peters No question JP was 'damaged goods' after 5 years in the circus known as the Buffalo Bills...ahem...'organization' - but I think that, especially after watching them screw with your boy Trent Edwards, even you would have to agree that the Bills hold a fair share of the blame for Losman's development - or lack thereof - as a QB. It'll be a real hoot if JP Losman returns to the NFL in 2 years, and emerges as one of the better QBs in the league, no? Not one of those guys had 5 years in the league & got tossed out as garbage like JP did. So your analogy listing undrafted free agents vs guy who flamed out of the NFL is beyond pointless. By the way, the only reason Moon went undrafted was because he was too much of a coward to try to prove himself in an NFL camp, and signed with the CFL before the NFL draft. Also you can't blame racism since Doug Williams was taken in the 1st round the same year Moon skipped the NFL draft. Since you are analogy challenged, let me help you along-the guy you hope that JP turns out to be is Flutie, who came back to the NFL after being banished to Canada. The only way JP Losman emerges as one of the better QBs in the NFL 2 years from now is if Mark Sanchez changes his name to JP Losman.
PDaDdy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Explain how Holcomb and Edwards both replaced JP during the season and each had much better records with the same team. Reread my question to you and you will have your answer
BillsFan68 Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 It just may be better football than on Sunday vs. the Browns!! ] I've been a fan that lives and dies by the Bills since '68. And I'm just so disgusted right now. Like 97% of all Bills fans (according to the Dick Jauron approval poll)
thebug Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I wouldn't say it 'hurts' - it's just sadly disappointing that Losman was unable to succeed here, whatever the cause. What will 'hurt' is when he returns to the NFL in 2 seasons - wearing orange and teal - and leads the Dolphins to the playoffs, while the Bills still languish in the cellar. Good one.
Magox Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Explain how Holcomb and Edwards both replaced JP during the season and each had much better records with the same team. Biscuit, don't get in the way of their fun, because you know, our team is so much better than it was then.
PDaDdy Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 What I DO find as humorous is that when you make an honest critique of Trent the apologists have to dredge up the corpse of JP as a defense. A man has to stand on his own two feet and be judged on his OWN merit or lack there of!
Gary M Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Explain how Holcomb and Edwards both replaced JP during the season and each had much better records with the same team. If I am not mistaken I did a tally of the W-L records of the the teams they each played, and the teams JP played against had a .500 or better record and the teams KH and TE played was below .500. (I refuse to look it up but I know that was the case.) Of course I was labelled a JP fan boy or some other non-sense, when all I was trying to prove was that no QB will succeed with this coach and the bargain basement OL they field. I hate losing
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