MRW Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 At this point, even if the front office does decide to bag the season and really start rebuilding, I'm not confident that if we do get some 1-3rd round picks that they would draft the right guys. (i.e. Losman instead of Big Ben, Whitner over Ngata... so on and so forth) Losman instead of Ben R is not a good example. The team wanted Ben R but could not find a trade partner. It's not like they had the opportunity to draft Ben but opted to reach for Losman instead.
Bruuuuce Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Losman instead of Ben R is not a good example. The team wanted Ben R but could not find a trade partner. It's not like they had the opportunity to draft Ben but opted to reach for Losman instead. was listening to shope and the bulldog the other day, they made it sound like losman was who they really wanted
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I'd be cool with that. They suck anyway, the more talent they can deal to make sure they finish last in the league, the better. Need top pick talent picked by a REAL evaluator.
silvermike Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 If draft picks are worthless because our front office can't draft talent, then there's no point in following the team. You can't succeed in this league unless you can draft. Now, that's not to say that it's not accurate, and it's not to say that Stroud isn't more valuable than a first round pick. But if we don't have any chance of drafting talent, there's no team.
dave mcbride Posted October 8, 2009 Author Posted October 8, 2009 was listening to shope and the bulldog the other day, they made it sound like losman was who they really wanted They're wrong. They really wanted Roethlisberger, but couldn't trade up.
Fan in Chicago Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 As much as I like Stroud as a player, he's not going to be an important player when the Bills finally become good (assuming they ever do). The Chargers, for instance, are really desperate for a DT, and they're not the only ones. The Cowboys come to mind too. I know a first rounder would be difficult to get, but desperate teams sometimes resort to desperate measures. If the Bills end up with two first rounders (one a high pick, the other in the mid-20s), they might be able to move up further and draft a QB or sit tight and and land both a blue chip DT and an OT. (They do need to draft a QB early, however.) It's really just a thought experiment, but this team is going nowhere, and they're going to have to build through the draft. We are a desperate team ! I vote no to this. He is one of the few good players we have, we will need his experience in the coming years and a drafted player next year will take another year to be useful. So I rather not give up a solid performer in exchange for two+ years of inexperience/risk
Delete This Account Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Dave: with all due respect, i think this would be a mistake. Marcus isn't that old, is a leader in that locker room and i think Bills fans should remember what happened the last time they fiddled with DT. Bills spent all this time trying to find a nose tackle after the Larry Tripplett experiment didn't work, don't know if they'd gamble away losing another NT, and a good one at that. in my humble opinion, they need another DT to play alongside Stroud. jw
dave mcbride Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 Dave:with all due respect, i think this would be a mistake. Marcus isn't that old, is a leader in that locker room and i think Bills fans should remember what happened the last time they fiddled with DT. Bills spent all this time trying to find a nose tackle after the Larry Tripplett experiment didn't work, don't know if they'd gamble away losing another NT, and a good one at that. in my humble opinion, they need another DT to play alongside Stroud. jw Fair enough. Don't get me wrong - I like Stroud. That's why I think he might fetch a high pick (I don't think anyone else on the team that's over 29 will). I'm not completely done with Edwards (I've been a supporter for some time, and habits die hard), but I'm starting to think that they have to draft a blue chip QB and maximize their potential to get into the top 3 picks. But if they keep Stroud, I'm not complaining - he should be good for another 3 years or so. He's a likable player who is obviously very good. Without a QB, though, this team is going to continue to flounder.
Orton's Arm Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 As much as I like Stroud as a player, he's not going to be an important player when the Bills finally become good (assuming they ever do). The Chargers, for instance, are really desperate for a DT, and they're not the only ones. The Cowboys come to mind too. I know a first rounder would be difficult to get, but desperate teams sometimes resort to desperate measures. If the Bills end up with two first rounders (one a high pick, the other in the mid-20s), they might be able to move up further and draft a QB or sit tight and and land both a blue chip DT and an OT. (They do need to draft a QB early, however.) It's really just a thought experiment, but this team is going nowhere, and they're going to have to build through the draft. This isn't a terrible idea. As you point out, this team is not going to the playoffs this year, period. If we need a new QB--which right now does seem to be the case--then next season, our QB will likely be either a rookie or a second- or third-tier veteran. Either way, the odds of going to the playoffs next season seem slim. When you're in rebuilding mode, trading away your over-30 players for first round picks is generally a good instinct. Another factor to consider is that our coaching staff will likely be gone after the season. There's no way of knowing whether the new coaching staff will want to use the 3-4 or 4-3. (I think it's fairly obvious our current defensive scheme belongs in the scrap heap.) As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, Stroud is not a 3-4 NT. Given this uncertainty, there's something to be said for the flexibility a first-round pick would offer us; as opposed to being locked into a strictly 4-3 type guy. There's a third benefit here; though it may not seem like one at first. Trading away Stroud would open a gaping hole on our defensive line for the rest of the season. Doing that could easily turn a 7-9 season into 5-11, or a 5-11 season into 3-13. If your goal for the coming off-season is to use a top-3 pick on a QB, and if you're writing off this season anyway, those two or three extra losses are actually a benefit. Ask Indianapolis fans whether it was worth sitting through a 1-15 season (or whatever it was) to be able to take Peyton Manning first overall. Ask Atlanta fans whether going through their painful season--and getting a third overall pick--was worth it, after that pick turned out to be Matt Ryan. Trading away Stroud could easily lead to a situation in which, this coming off-season, we have both a top-three pick and whatever first round pick we got for Stroud. Add those picks to the good draft we just finished having, and you're looking at a very solid foundation of young players.
Tcali Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 He's 31, and the Bills aren't going to the playoffs either this year or next. At a certain point, you have to shift to future planning mode. He was brought in to get the Bills to the playoffs last year and this year. The plan failed, although he wasn't the reason for the failure. thats what we said about fat williams--he had another 4 good years
Taro T Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 This isn't a terrible idea. As you point out, this team is not going to the playoffs this year, period. If we need a new QB--which right now does seem to be the case--then next season, our QB will likely be either a rookie or a second- or third-tier veteran. Either way, the odds of going to the playoffs next season seem slim. When you're in rebuilding mode, trading away your over-30 players for first round picks is generally a good instinct. Another factor to consider is that our coaching staff will likely be gone after the season. There's no way of knowing whether the new coaching staff will want to use the 3-4 or 4-3. (I think it's fairly obvious our current defensive scheme belongs in the scrap heap.) As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, Stroud is not a 3-4 NT. Given this uncertainty, there's something to be said for the flexibility a first-round pick would offer us; as opposed to being locked into a strictly 4-3 type guy. There's a third benefit here; though it may not seem like one at first. Trading away Stroud would open a gaping hole on our defensive line for the rest of the season. Doing that could easily turn a 7-9 season into 5-11, or a 5-11 season into 3-13. If your goal for the coming off-season is to use a top-3 pick on a QB, and if you're writing off this season anyway, those two or three extra losses are actually a benefit. Ask Indianapolis fans whether it was worth sitting through a 1-15 season (or whatever it was) to be able to take Peyton Manning first overall. Ask Atlanta fans whether going through their painful season--and getting a third overall pick--was worth it, after that pick turned out to be Matt Ryan. Trading away Stroud could easily lead to a situation in which, this coming off-season, we have both a top-three pick and whatever first round pick we got for Stroud. Add those picks to the good draft we just finished having, and you're looking at a very solid foundation of young players. Is this the 3rd point 5 benefit? Sorry.
dave mcbride Posted October 9, 2009 Author Posted October 9, 2009 thats what we said about fat williams--he had another 4 good years Apples and oranges. We let Williams walk; I'm talking about a trade for a high - and only a high - pick. Also, I never said that Stroud wasn't going to be a good player for the 2-3 years.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 As much as I like Stroud as a player, he's not going to be an important player when the Bills finally become good (assuming they ever do). The Chargers, for instance, are really desperate for a DT, and they're not the only ones. The Cowboys come to mind too. I know a first rounder would be difficult to get, but desperate teams sometimes resort to desperate measures. If the Bills end up with two first rounders (one a high pick, the other in the mid-20s), they might be able to move up further and draft a QB or sit tight and and land both a blue chip DT and an OT. (They do need to draft a QB early, however.) It's really just a thought experiment, but this team is going nowhere, and they're going to have to build through the draft. It would take this FO 10-15 first round draft picks to stumble onto a player as good as stroud.
Tcali Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 Apples and oranges. We let Williams walk; I'm talking about a trade for a high - and only a high - pick. Also, I never said that Stroud wasn't going to be a good player for the 2-3 years. why start all over again when you have a proven commodity?? Seems that hasnt served the Bills very well..esp with their gruesome draft record.
colin Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 You're joking right? He makes up 1/4 of the best D-line in football... oh and they haven't lost a game yet. it's just shocking to me that people can be this absolutely oblivious and still manage to leave their house and survive.
tonyjustbcuz Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 I'm not writing of the season after 4 games. As TO says, it's not how you start it's how you finish. As with any trade, if what you get is better than what you give up, you gotta consider it. One of the few posts that I agree with....Yes 1-3 is a bad start and we have our work cut out for us to get back into the playoff hunt. I don't anticipate that they will, but you just never know....Just like last season after 4 games when everyone was caught up in the 4-0 record we had...the prevailing setiment was that we were going to the playoffs with little doubt. Well that's what happens when you get over-hyped early in the season. Look at the Yankees in baseball they were behind the Red Sox by a good margin of games and failed to win a single game against the Red Sox at the 1/4 mark. Well, love them or hate them they righted their ship and the same possibility exists for the Bills as some of the injured players return and the season presses on. Hang on to your hats folk you just never know what lies ahead!
spartacus Posted October 10, 2009 Posted October 10, 2009 I'm sure teams will be fighting to send us a 1st round pick for him. Can anyone think logically here? could be a 1st rounder in 2015. that's worth something, eh?
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