Do you blame Edwards for being shell-shocked?

[DC Tom]

Really? Some of us are still using that Arizona hit as an excuse for pitiful play? Lets say you are correct and he is still "shell-shocked" from that hit. Does this "shell-shocked" syndrome translate into a successful pro career? Playing Qb in the NFL means you are going to take nasty hits often. If he can't get over that then its time to move on.

 

I don't subscribe to the theory that Trent is still affected even in the slightest bit by last years hit. He's been playing Qb for most of his life and has probably had many tough shots. If you are correct, he is never going to be a good NFL Qb. If you are incorrect, he is never going to be a good NFL Qb. Trent Edwards is a solid backup Qb, nothing else.

 

 

If you watch his play the first four games of last season, he stands in the pocket and tries (and usually succeeds) to make the throw in the face of pressure, even in the face of an imminent hit. That changed when he got nailed in the Arizona game - ever since, he's just unwilling to take a hit.

[FreakPop]

We completely trash a former first round draft choice( JP), decimate the O-line in the off season, then to top it off we fire our OC one week before the season starts.

 

We really are giving TE a level playing field for you to make an accurate assessment aren't we Push.

 

 

TE has had a 1000x more level playing field than JP ever had and he has yet to this day not been able to prove that he is better than JP.

[FreakPop]

If you watch his play the first four games of last season, he stands in the pocket and tries (and usually succeeds) to make the throw in the face of pressure, even in the face of an imminent hit. That changed when he got nailed in the Arizona game - ever since, he's just unwilling to take a hit.

 

 

OK, so your saying what? Trent sucks? Most of us knew that a long time ago.

[Guest dog14787]

TE has had a 1000x more level playing field than JP ever had and he has yet to this day not been able to prove that he is better than JP.

 

 

I like JP Losman Pops and in my opinion both QB's had and have the misfortune of playing for an owner, FO and coaching staff that doesn't have a clue.

[PushthePile]

We completely trash a former first round draft choice( JP), decimate the O-line in the off season, then to top it off we fire our OC one week before the season starts.

 

We really are giving TE a level playing field for you to make an accurate assessment aren't we Push.

You act as if this year is his only example of sub-par play. The way I see it, TE is the same as Fitzpatrick, VanPelt, Losman, Collins, Johnson, and Flutie. You can make excuses for all of them if you look hard enough, but the final product is the same. All of these guys are just not good enough to win consistently in the NFL but are serviceable in relief duty. Take a look around the league, and you will see many young Qbs who are more than serviceable. Sometimes I think that its been so long since this fanbase has seen a good Qb, that many of us immediately embrace mediocrity. It doesn't have to be this way and it shouldn't. You deserve better dog, even if you don't realize it.

[vincec]

How can you possibly judge any player who is being coached by Jauron accurately? DJ can turn a HOF wide receiver who has averaged over 1,000 yards and 10 tds per season over his career into a non-factor. If Edwards spent a couple of years playing for Mike Shanahan, I'll bet that he would start to look a lot better.

[PushthePile]

If you watch his play the first four games of last season, he stands in the pocket and tries (and usually succeeds) to make the throw in the face of pressure, even in the face of an imminent hit. That changed when he got nailed in the Arizona game - ever since, he's just unwilling to take a hit.

I don't see it that way. He is a guy who will have a good game every so often, a terrible game every so often, and vanilla most of the time. These guys usually hold clipboards and wait for disaster to strike. The Arizona stuff is a reach IMO. TE showed shakiness before the hit and even during that four game streak.

[Guest dog14787]

You act as if this year is his only example of sub-par play. The way I see it, TE is the same as Fitzpatrick, VanPelt, Losman, Collins, Johnson, and Flutie. You can make excuses for all of them if you look hard enough, but the final product is the same. All of these guys are just not good enough to win consistently in the NFL but are serviceable in relief duty. Take a look around the league, and you will see many young Qbs who are more than serviceable. Sometimes I think that its been so long since this fanbase has seen a good Qb, that many of us immediately embrace mediocrity. It doesn't have to be this way and it shouldn't. You deserve better dog, even if you don't realize it.

 

 

I'm down on TE myself, but I do realize how much coaching has to do with the proper development of a QB and the success or failure of a football team.

 

The big Tuna could have taken any one of our QB's in the past and made it to the playoffs.

[Guest dog14787]

I don't see it that way. He is a guy who will have a good game every so often, a terrible game every so often, and vanilla most of the time. These guys usually hold clipboards and wait for disaster to strike. The Arizona stuff is a reach IMO. TE showed shakiness before the hit and even during that four game streak.

 

 

Funny, I remember TE being instrumental in a couple of the wins.

[PushthePile]

I'm down on TE myself, but I do realize how much coaching has to do with the proper development of a QB and the success or failure of a football team.

 

The big Tuna could have taken any one of our QB's in the past and made it to the playoffs.

This team has been chock full of great Qbs over the years and its been consistently horrible coaching that has ruined so many prominent careers, right? Face it the coaching sucks, as do many of the players, including our beloved TE.

[PushthePile]

[/b]

 

 

Funny, I remember TE being instrumental in a couple of the wins.

The guy is not incapable of making plays, he's in the NFL afterall. He's just incapable of making them consistently.

[thebug]

Yes, time to leave the skirt in the dressing room and play like a man.

[Guest dog14787]

The guy is not incapable of making plays, he's in the NFL afterall. He's just incapable of making them consistently.

 

 

Yes, time to leave the skirt in the dressing room and play like a man.

 

 

I agree with both of you.

[LGB]

I agree with both of you.

As bad as Edwards was in the wind, Derek Anderson was 2 for 17 for 23 yards. Tough day for the Bills.

[jad1]

I'm down on TE myself, but I do realize how much coaching has to do with the proper development of a QB and the success or failure of a football team.

 

The big Tuna could have taken any one of our QB's in the past and made it to the playoffs.

 

Yeah, like he did with Drew Bledsoe?

 

Development of a QB is overrated. There is no such thing as breaking a QB who has the quality to be a NFL starter (like Kelly, Manning, Marino, Aiken, or Elway) by playing him too soon. These guys might struggle, but even when that happens they still show the potential to be NFL franchise QBs.

 

If a QB has a true NFL mentality, like Rothlisberger or Rogers have, no amount of punishment will knock it out of him.

 

You only get this "development" nonsense when a QB without the mentality to be an NFL starter fails.

 

Losman and Edwards are not NFL starters, just like Todd Collins was not a starter, no matter how much coddling the coaching staff gives them.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah, like he did with Drew Bledsoe?

 

Development of a QB is overrated. There is no such thing as breaking a QB who has the quality to be a NFL starter (like Kelly, Manning, Marino, Aiken, or Elway) by playing him too soon. These guys might struggle, but even when that happens they still show the potential to be NFL franchise QBs.

 

If a QB has a true NFL mentality, like Rothlisberger or Rogers have, no amount of punishment will knock it out of him.

 

You only get this "development" nonsense when a QB without the mentality to be an NFL starter fails.

 

Losman and Edwards are not NFL starters, just like Todd Collins was not a starter, no matter how much coddling the coaching staff gives them.

Loser teams develop Loser players. You cite Hall of Famers as your proof and every one of them was pretty much developed by a Hall of Fame Coach with stable staffs and good personnel people. I could give you a hundred other examples of QBs who've had their confidence killed in the same manner we've seen Losman and Edwards.

 

Coaching and development matter. Period.

[jad1]

Loser teams develop Loser players. You cite Hall of Famers as your proof and every one of them was pretty much developed by a Hall of Fame Coach with stable staffs and good personnel people. I could give you a hundred other examples of QBs who've had their confidence killed in the same manner we've seen Losman and Edwards.

 

Coaching and development matter. Period.

 

Really? Peyton Manning owes his success to Jim Mora? Jim Kelly owes his to Hank Bullough?

 

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco made the playoffs as rookies playing under the stable leadership of rookie coaches?

 

Same thing swith Mark Sanchez. Rex Ryan's experienced staff has developed him into a franchise-caliber QB in all of 4 NFL games?

 

I'd love to see your list of QBs who came out of college with the talent and ability of a Kelly, Marino, Elway, or even Flacco or Ryan, who were broken by poor coaching.

 

Either a QB has the ability to be a franchise QB or he doesn't. The key isn't in the development, it's in identifying those players in the draft.

[billsfan714]

Really? Peyton Manning owes his success to Jim Mora? Jim Kelly owes his to Hank Bullough?

 

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco made the playoffs as rookies playing under the stable leadership of rookie coaches?

 

Same thing swith Mark Sanchez. Rex Ryan's experienced staff has developed him into a franchise-caliber QB in all of 4 NFL games?

 

I'd love to see your list of QBs who came out of college with the talent and ability of a Kelly, Marino, Elway, or even Flacco or Ryan, who were broken by poor coaching.

 

Either a QB has the ability to be a franchise QB or he doesn't. The key isn't in the development, it's in identifying those players in the draft.

 

A big amen there. Sorry to the Checkdownwards defenders but there hasnt been improvement in his performance. Things you see in a Flacco and Ryan.

[TheChimp]

You act as if this year is his only example of sub-par play. The way I see it, TE is the same as Fitzpatrick, VanPelt, Losman, Collins, Johnson, and Flutie. You can make excuses for all of them if you look hard enough, but the final product is the same. All of these guys are just not good enough to win consistently in the NFL but are serviceable in relief duty. Take a look around the league, and you will see many young Qbs who are more than serviceable. Sometimes I think that its been so long since this fanbase has seen a good Qb, that many of us immediately embrace mediocrity. It doesn't have to be this way and it shouldn't. You deserve better dog, even if you don't realize it.

[Orton's Arm]

Funny, I remember TE being instrumental in a couple of the wins.

True. The usual sequence of events in those four games was as follows:

 

Step 1: The offensive line would play like a complete and utter joke in the first half of the game. Trent would achieve little.

 

Step 2: Somewhere in the third quarter, the offensive line would pick up steam. Trent would look better.

 

Step 3: By the fourth quarter, the offensive line would flat-out dominate the other team. Trent would look like a hero in leading the fourth quarter comeback.

 

We've seen much the same thing this season. In the game against the Patriots, the line looked great on run blocking, and decent in pass protection. Edwards had a very solid game. Since then, the quality of the line's play has declined: in fact it's looked more and more like a flaming train wreck. Edwards' play has declined in sync with that line's.

 

If it sounds like I'm trying to blame everything on the line, I'm not. Bad line or no, Edwards has had legitimate opportunities to make plays, which he hasn't taken advantage of. That's clearly on him. It's bad enough that I'm entertaining very serious doubts about his viability as a long-term answer at QB.

 

Different quarterbacks tend to respond to bad offensive line play differently. If you put a Drew Bledsoe or a Rob Johnson behind a good line, that QB will make your offense shine. But put either behind a bad line, and that QB will look like a disaster. On the other hand, a Kelly Holcomb can be effective behind a bad line--considerably more effective than Bledsoe or Johnson would have been. But put the three quarterbacks behind a good line, and Holcomb will look like the worst QB of the three.

 

Like Bledsoe and Johnson before him, Edwards clearly needs good line play to look his best. He can't minimize the effects of bad line play, the way Holcomb once did. But when you give Edwards the advantages of good line play, can he exploit them as effectively as a Bledsoe or a Johnson would have? The answer to that question remains to be seen; but there have been some promising signs in that direction. Not that we've seen very many of those signs this year; as good line play has typically not been part of the Bills' equation.