The Senator Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 oh cmon. i hope he does well too, but really. Only time will tell, my friend. JMO, but between Bunch o' Mularkey, Dickhead Jauron, and multiple OCs per HC, I'm not sure ANY QB could have properly developed, much less thrived. Not making excuses for JP - well maybe I am - he was frustrating, but we're seeing the same crap with Edwards, whom I do not think has the raw talent or the arm-strength that JP had. Like I said, only time will tell. But JP would have thrived - I'm absolutely positive - under... Mike Leach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Only time will tell, my friend. JMO, but between Bunch o' Mularkey, Dickhead Jauron, and multiple OCs per HC, I'm not sure ANY QB could have properly developed, much less thrived. Not making excuses for JP - well maybe I am - he was frustrating, but we're seeing the same crap with Edwards, whom I do not think has the raw talent or the arm-strength that JP had. Like I said, only time will tell. But JP would have thrived - I'm absolutely positive - under... Mike Leach Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and Matt Ryan all had career seasons under Mularkey. The only QBs he failed with: John Paul Losman and Joseph Harrington. You do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and Matt Ryan all had career seasons under Mularkey. The only QBs he failed with: John Paul Losman and Joseph Harrington. You do the math. You do the math Biscuit: Steelers + Falcons > Bills + Fins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You do the math Biscuit: Steelers + Falcons > Bills + Fins The Falcons were 3-13 before Ryan was drafted. The Steelers were 6-10 before Maddox re-invented his career. Here's the answer: Harrington and Losman suck as NFL QBs. And before you offer your normal counterpoint, Edwards maybe very well finding himself on the bench. But I can guarantee it will be a NFL bench instead of same insane minor league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The Falcons were 3-13 before Ryan was drafted. The Steelers were 6-10 before Maddox re-invented his career. Here's the answer: Harrington and Losman suck as NFL QBs. And before you offer your normal counterpoint, Edwards maybe very well finding himself on the bench. But I can guarantee it will be a NFL bench instead of same insane minor league. Trent won't be on ANY bench if he continues to play as he has. Now to my counterpoint The Steelers had a MUCH better team than the Bills & the Falcons also got a PRETTY GOOD RB in Turner the same year Ryan was drafted. Talking about Ryan............................in his short career he has proven to be MUCH BETTER than Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Trent won't be on ANY bench if he continues to play as he has. Not true - I hear Las Vegas is looking for someone to back up JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Not true - I hear Las Vegas is looking for someone to back up JP If they watch the Fins game I doubt they would even want him as a back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Denver and Carolina contacted JP's agent to schedule visits but informed him that he was only being considered as a 2 or 3. JP turned them down. He could be a backup in the league collecting a check. He instead chose to be a starter and try to learn from a real coach. I am also on the list of people thinking we kept the wrong QB. The same list with Lee Evans, who I would assume knows much more than any of you on this board bashing JP. I remember Denver being interested in JP. But then didn't Denver lose interest since they were able to sign Simms? I don't see much evidence in terms of new articles that supports the fact that JP made a conscious decision to not go for a backup spot. Isn't the truth that there were not many takers? Anyway, going for a minor league starting spot is a huge gamble. If JP fails, his career is probably dead in water. And even if he does ok, doing well in a scrub league does not necessarily translate to NFL success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The Falcons were 3-13 before Ryan was drafted. The Steelers were 6-10 before Maddox re-invented his career. Here's the answer: Harrington and Losman suck as NFL QBs. And before you offer your normal counterpoint, Edwards maybe very well finding himself on the bench. But I can guarantee it will be a NFL bench instead of same insane minor league. I really do not know why you bother with these guys. It is not worth it. They will never understand. I thought, maybe just maybe, the offseason where Loserman was not even offered a backup spot in the NFL & was picked over by such future hall of famers like Byron Leftwich, Luke Mckown, Dan Orzselek, Chris Simms & our very own Ryan Fitzpatrick for glamourous backup roles that these guys would finally realize that their man love is just not NFL material. But I guess with some people, they really need reality beat into their heads with a 500 pnd sledgehammer to finally see the light. What is the NFL minimum salary for a 5yr Vet? I am guessing 4 maybe 500 grand a year. Yeah he would rather be slinging footballs in the desert for $30K so he could master the fine art of how not to be a (*^*&%^$^#with the football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfan63 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I really do not know why you bother with these guys. It is not worth it. They will never understand. I thought, maybe just maybe, the offseason where Loserman was not even offered a backup spot in the NFL & was picked over by such future hall of famers like Byron Leftwich, Luke Mckown, Dan Orzselek, Chris Simms & our very own Ryan Fitzpatrick for glamourous backup roles that these guys would finally realize that their man love is just not NFL material. But I guess with some people, they really need reality beat into their heads with a 500 pnd sledgehammer to finally see the light. What is the NFL minimum salary for a 5yr Vet? I am guessing 4 maybe 500 grand a year. Yeah he would rather be slinging footballs in the desert for $30K so he could master the fine art of how not to be a (*^*&%^$^#with the football! I don't know why people bother with you and Biscuit, on the subject of JP your like broken records. Neither side of the argument has proof that he was or was not offered a backup roll. The only thing we have is the guys word that he was, take it for what it is. As for holding a clipboard waiting for an injury or playing now, some people might not think like you, maybe being a millionaire in your twenty gives you freedom to do what you like, like play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I don't know why people bother with you and Biscuit, on the subject of JP your like broken records. Neither side of the argument has proof that he was or was not offered a backup roll. The only thing we have is the guys word that he was, take it for what it is. As for holding a clipboard waiting for an injury or playing now, some people might not think like you, maybe being a millionaire in your twenty gives you freedom to do what you like, like play football. Okay lets see. If he was offered a backup job like some people seem to think he could either accept that & make $400,000 a year & in keeping in mind that very few qbs stay injury free for a whole course of the year so he would probably get in at some point during the season to showcase his craft, or he could go into this developemental league that is probably playing against talent that is probably not much better then your local highschool varsity football team & earn $30K. Keep in mind he could light this league up like never seen before, do you really think there is going to be a GM that gives Losman the keys to the franchise & gives him the starting qb gig? Losman will be lucky if he gets a backup job in the NFL next year no matter how he does in this league. One other thing. This is the first time I could ever remember that a 1st round qb, after it did not work out with their first team, did not get a 2nd chance with another team. That is all you need to know about what the league thinks of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billfan63 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Okay lets see. If he was offered a backup job like some people seem to think he could either accept that & make $400,000 a year & in keeping in mind that very few qbs stay injury free for a whole course of the year so he would probably get in at some point during the season to showcase his craft, or he could go into this developemental league that is probably playing against talent that is probably not much better then your local highschool varsity football team & earn $30K. Keep in mind he could light this league up like never seen before, do you really think there is going to be a GM that gives Losman the keys to the franchise & gives him the starting qb gig? Losman will be lucky if he gets a backup job in the NFL next year no matter how he does in this league. One other thing. This is the first time I could ever remember that a 1st round qb, after it did not work out with their first team, did not get a 2nd chance with another team. That is all you need to know about what the league thinks of him. The records skipping, the point is you don't know and neither do I, so because he didn't conform to your logic it could never happen. So what happened when he went begging to th UFL? Did he sit down with Jim Fassel and say "Coach no one wants me in the NFL. I want to play here, please can you contrive a lie with me that I turned down backup offers and wanted to start on your team" Then Jim Fassel said Sure JP send in the reporters I would love to lie for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The records skipping, the point is you don't know and neither do I, so because he didn't conform to your logic it could never happen. So what happened when he went begging to th UFL? Did he sit down with Jim Fassel and say "Coach no one wants me in the NFL. I want to play here, please can you contrive a lie with me that I turned down backup offers and wanted to start on your team" Then Jim Fassel said Sure JP send in the reporters I would love to lie for you. Your right, there really is no point arguing. I do not know the facts, I am just looking at from a logical standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Interesting comments from Bob DiCesare this morning... Call me nuts, but with Lee Evans and T.O. on the flanks, J.P. Losman would be a better fit on the Bills than Trent Edwards. The Bills might still go down, but at least they'd go down slinging. Right, Lee? But at least the franchise gave Edwards some peace of mind by bringing in a backup quarterback who poses no threat to his starting job. Brilliant, that was. link One thing I've noticed - the 'Trenters' ball-washers are no longer spouting off about his 'winning record' as a starting QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 One other thing. This is the first time I could ever remember that a 1st round qb, after it did not work out with their first team, did not get a 2nd chance with another team. That is all you need to know about what the league thinks of him. Excellent point JP is the most recent 1st round QB to be cut from the team that drafted him. So looking at 1st round QBs between 1995-2004. 1st round bust QBs in bold 1995: Steve McNair, Kerry Collins. Collins wasn't really a 1st round bust. Had some early success but then some personal problems led to him getting cut. He was quickly picked up by another team, set his life straight, and is still in the NFL 1996: No 1st round QBs 1997: Jim Druckenmiller. Failed in SF but was given another shot by Miami 1998: Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf Ryan Leaf was an epic bust of monumental proportion. Yet Tampa and Dallas still brought him in for a look 1999: Tim Couch, Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Dante Culpepper, Cade McNown -Couch got picked up by Green Bay for a short time -So did Smith who also spent some time with Tampa -Cade McNown spent some time with Miami and SF 2000: Chad Pennington 2001: Michael Vick 2002: David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey Carr went to Carolina and the Giants, Harrington to the Phish, and Ramsey I believe is with Tennessee after spending some time with Denver 2003: Carson Palmer, Byron Lefwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman Boller St Louis, and Grossman in Houston. Leftwich wasn't really a bust 2004: Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers, Big Ben, JP One of these things is not like the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Interesting comments from Bob DiCesare this morning... Call me nuts, but with Lee Evans and T.O. on the flanks, J.P. Losman would be a better fit on the Bills than Trent Edwards. The Bills might still go down, but at least they'd go down slinging. Right, Lee? But at least the franchise gave Edwards some peace of mind by bringing in a backup quarterback who poses no threat to his starting job. Brilliant, that was. link One thing I've noticed - the 'Trenters' ball-washers are no longer spouting off about his 'winning record' as a starting QB You know sen, I think the most disappointing thing for me this season(well the second most disappointing thing for me after Jauron still being the coach) is the play of Edwards. I really can not believe I may have been so wrong about this guy. I know some of the posters here are from out of town, but I live about 15 minutes from the stadium & I go to every game. From what I see he has open guys & just does not have the stones to throw it to them. I do not get it. I hope he shows me something these next 12 games but I doubt it. I am sure of one thing though, Losman is not an NFL qb. I am starting to think Edwards is not either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You know sen, I think the most disappointing thing for me this season(well the second most disappointing thing for me after Jauron still being the coach) is the play of Edwards. I really can not believe I may have been so wrong about this guy. I know some of the posters here are from out of town, but I live about 15 minutes from the stadium & I go to every game. From what I see he has open guys & just does not have the stones to throw it to them. I do not get it. I hope he shows me something these next 12 games but I doubt it. I am sure of one thing though, Losman is not an NFL qb. I am starting to think Edwards is not either. I know this much, JP has the physical tools to be a GREAT QB if he develops his brain. If Fasell can coach him up even a little bit he should be at least a decent QB. Just about ANY QB that is drafted has at least as good physical tools as Trent. Think about two baseball pitchers, one has a 100 mph pitch but has not developed his curve, the others fastest pitch is in the high 80's but has a curve. If the 2nd pitcher can no longer throw the curve why bother with him? He is a dime a dozen. The first pitcher still has POTENTIAL. JP MAY not be an NFL QB but Trent DEFINITELY is NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I know this much, JP has the physical tools to be a GREAT QB if he develops his brain. If Fasell can coach him up even a little bit he should be at least a decent QB. Just about ANY QB that is drafted has at least as good physical tools as Trent. Think about two baseball pitchers, one has a 100 mph pitch but has not developed his curve, the others fastest pitch is in the high 80's but has a curve. If the 2nd pitcher can no longer throw the curve why bother with him? He is a dime a dozen. The first pitcher still has POTENTIAL. JP MAY not be an NFL QB but Trent DEFINITELY is NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxer Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You know sen, I think the most disappointing thing for me this season(well the second most disappointing thing for me after Jauron still being the coach) is the play of Edwards. I really can not believe I may have been so wrong about this guy. I know some of the posters here are from out of town, but I live about 15 minutes from the stadium & I go to every game. From what I see he has open guys & just does not have the stones to throw it to them. I do not get it. I hope he shows me something these next 12 games but I doubt it. I am sure of one thing though, Losman is not an NFL qb. I am starting to think Edwards is not either. If Edwards' goal is to make it in this league, I mean if his main goal is to play football, he should seriously consider seeing a psychologist to help him through this huge mental block he has developed. He showed he had the stones to make every throw (with what velocity is another story), he showed he could stand in the pocket and deliver a post pattern pass with a defender in his face. I don't know the reasons for his regression, maybe it was that hit against Arizona, maybe is working for a very conservative staff and coach, I don't know, but it wouldn't hurt if he talks to someone that could help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You know sen, I think the most disappointing thing for me this season(well the second most disappointing thing for me after Jauron still being the coach) is the play of Edwards. I really can not believe I may have been so wrong about this guy. I know some of the posters here are from out of town, but I live about 15 minutes from the stadium & I go to every game. From what I see he has open guys & just does not have the stones to throw it to them. I do not get it. I hope he shows me something these next 12 games but I doubt it. I am sure of one thing though, Losman is not an NFL qb. I am starting to think Edwards is not either. Gordio, it's like that line from Charlie Wilson's War - "Mr. Wilson always says, 'You can teach 'em to type, but you can't teach 'em to grow breasts!' " I think you & FLbillsfan#1 have both nailed it - JP had no brains, Trent has no balls. JMO, but I think the 'brains' part can be taught - put JP together with a coach like Coughlin (or like, oh, say...Mike Leach) for a year or two, and he can be taught better mechanics, to read defenses more effectively, and to make better decisions. Give him an offensive game plan that makes sense, and a set of WRs like Evans and Owens, and - with his arm - the guy will kill opposing defenses. But how do you teach a guy to have 'heart'? How do you say, "OK, on this next play, you grow a pair of balls!"??? I never liked Edwards, and made no secret of it. Always thought he was a wuss. If you're gonna draft a Stanford QB, it better be the overall #1 pick of the draft - like Plunkett, or Elway. I think JP will come back to the NFL and surprise a lot of folks. Again, JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts