Chef Jim Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I don't think the Bills are going anywhere. I think that's just panic-talk. They're a pretty stable franchise (except for the winning part). And the fact that their owner has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Kraft and Jones did well, but if I recall the "Law of 72" correctly, Snyder's annual return comes out to about 7%, not sparkling by any means in a normal investment market..... 6.488% to be exact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 The "value" of a team can only be realized upon it's sale. It doesn't matter how much The pats or cowboys are worth--neither owner is selling. All that matters in a real sense is margin after expenses, taxes and debt service. This is why Ralph has one of the most valuable positions in the league. He's made hundred's of millions over the years. I would bet that, despite his tired act to the contrary, he is the envy of most owners. I think that's why there will be some serious negotiations about revenue sharing among the owners. According to the article, each team received $116 million in shared revenue from TV and DirectTV. The Bills are not a very attractive purchase without that revenue. The other owners can easily screw Ralph out of a lot of money if the league alters the revenue sharing prior to Ralph selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think that's why there will be some serious negotiations about revenue sharing among the owners. According to the article, each team received $116 million in shared revenue from TV and DirectTV. The Bills are not a very attractive purchase without that revenue. The other owners can easily screw Ralph out of a lot of money if the league alters the revenue sharing prior to Ralph selling. It's hard to say they would be "screwing him" out of money that his team doesn't contribute much to generate. Ralphie's gonna be looking back on that "sh**ty CBA" wistfully when Jones and Co. take a bigger (or, should I say, more proportionate) bite from RW's piece of the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 It's hard to say they would be "screwing him" out of money that his team doesn't contribute much to generate. Ralphie's gonna be looking back on that "sh**ty CBA" wistfully when Jones and Co. take a bigger (or, should I say, more proportionate) bite from RW's piece of the pie. "Screwing him" in the sense that he won't see any amount close to the numbers listed in the Forbes article when he sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I think people were saying the same thing in 1978. I suppose so, but I'm having a hard time seeing untapped revenue streams for the NFL at this point. Internationally they're making efforts to expand their fanbase, but it's very much an uphill struggle right now. There is sufficient coverage of the league that I don't think networks can justify astronomical increases in the price they pay for TV rights. They could monetize coverage of games on the internet, that's probably the big remaining market. But I've been completely unimpressed by their efforts to broadcast games on NFL.com. It's never worked adequately for me, so I question whether they can actually get people to pay for it. It's extremely possible that I'm wrong on this, I just know that if I were a potential NFL team buyer, I'd be very wary when looking at past growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 I suppose so, but I'm having a hard time seeing untapped revenue streams for the NFL at this point. Internationally they're making efforts to expand their fanbase, but it's very much an uphill struggle right now. There is sufficient coverage of the league that I don't think networks can justify astronomical increases in the price they pay for TV rights. They could monetize coverage of games on the internet, that's probably the big remaining market. But I've been completely unimpressed by their efforts to broadcast games on NFL.com. It's never worked adequately for me, so I question whether they can actually get people to pay for it. It's extremely possible that I'm wrong on this, I just know that if I were a potential NFL team buyer, I'd be very wary when looking at past growth. This is why the foreseeable future is bright for the NFL: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/sports/f...0nbc&st=cse They are one of the only truly reliable media products available, and the ratings are going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have a hard time believing any of these teams are worth over a billion dollars...to pay that price seems insane. I don't know. It's only 1/787th of the stimulus package. I'll bet the Chinese would take the Bills and reduce our debt to them by $1 Billion. Obama's crew could probably negotiate a $700 million tax free deal with Ralph and the US Government could pick up an easy $300 million on the deal and require the Chinese to keep the Bills in Buffalo. The new owners would likely hire a new GM and coach, so keeping everyone happy is not that tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I don't know. It's only 1/787th of the stimulus package. I'll bet the Chinese would take the Bills and reduce our debt to them by $1 Billion. Obama's crew could probably negotiate a $700 million tax free deal with Ralph and the US Government could pick up an easy $300 million on the deal and require the Chinese to keep the Bills in Buffalo. The new owners would likely hire a new GM and coach, so keeping everyone happy is not that tough. I want Kim Jong Il, I heard him an Obama are pals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I think that's why there will be some serious negotiations about revenue sharing among the owners. According to the article, each team received $116 million in shared revenue from TV and DirectTV. The Bills are not a very attractive purchase without that revenue. The other owners can easily screw Ralph out of a lot of money if the league alters the revenue sharing prior to Ralph selling. There is NO chance the league will alter the TV revenue sharing. Each team will always get an even share of that. That's the Golden Goose and really the only revenue stream worth worrying about. The owners will NEVER agree to equitable sharing of other revenues as it is so I don't see how the smaller market owners without access to those revenue streams can be much more affected, if at all. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 There is NO chance the league will alter the TV revenue sharing. Each team will always get an even share of that. That's the Golden Goose and really the only revenue stream worth worrying about. The owners will NEVER agree to equitable sharing of other revenues as it is so I don't see how the smaller market owners without access to those revenue streams can be much more affected, if at all. GO BILLS!!! I believe you're confusing revenue sharing with the television revenue which is evenly split among all 32 teams. Revenue sharing money comes from the wealthiest 15 teams. And I don't believe it amounts to more than 10M per year. Owners like Jerra Jones are producing more funds for the league with their giant stadiums and don't feel obligated to owners like Wilson who exist in small markets and can never create the revenue big owners can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I believe you're confusing revenue sharing with the television revenue which is evenly split among all 32 teams. Revenue sharing money comes from the wealthiest 15 teams. And I don't believe it amounts to more than 10M per year. Owners like Jerra Jones are producing more funds for the league with their giant stadiums and don't feel obligated to owners like Wilson who exist in small markets and can never create the revenue big owners can. Not confused at all. Simply pointing out to the poster I replied to that since the TV revenue sharing will be untouched then RW or any other owner stands little chance of being adversely affected. The owners will never alter the TV revenue sharing system they have. We agree on the shared revenue from other streams. The owners will NEVER agree to share more than what they begrudgingly have to give to the bottom 17 teams already. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Not confused at all. Simply pointing out to the poster I replied to that since the TV revenue sharing will be untouched then RW or any other owner stands little chance of being adversely affected. The owners will never alter the TV revenue sharing system they have. We agree on the shared revenue from other streams. The owners will NEVER agree to share more than what they begrudgingly have to give to the bottom 17 teams already. GO BILLS!!! I think it was simply semantics. You emphasized a bolded part of a previous post which referenced "revenue sharing." I know Jones wants to get rid of revenue sharing, but you're correct that TV money will not be allocated any way but evenly among 32 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 It's hard to say they would be "screwing him" out of money that his team doesn't contribute much to generate. Really, moron? Network TV is the HUGEST guaranteed chunk of revenue the NFL owners realize. So, when the Jets/Giants play the Bills, NY/NJ/ne* fans don't watch the game on TV just as much as they would if their* team* played, say, Dallas, or Denver, or the Colts??? Mr. WEO's School of Revenue Sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Phil Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Kraft and Jones did well, but if I recall the "Law of 72" correctly, Snyder's annual return comes out to about 7%, not sparkling by any means in a normal investment market..... Your point is well taken however Snyder sees it more as a rich mans hobby while Ralph runs a much tighter ship in a business sense. I think Snyder would be happy to break even at years end and be satisfied with a continuing rise in franchise value. FWIW, these theoretical franchise valuations as stated would indicate they have been insulated from one of the worst recessions on record. These guys are too smart to sell into these economic conditions. Given that no franchise has actually sold recently I would take those estimates with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I don't think the Bills are going anywhere. I think that's just panic-talk. They're a pretty stable franchise (except for the winning part). Dave, Ralph Wilson's will specifys that the team will be sold to the highest bidder. If it is an "outside" bidder then the team is gone. It is as simple as that. That is the way he wants it done and the executor of his will will abide by the terms of the will. Ralph doesn't give a hoot whether the team is moved or not. He just wants the highest price for his franchise. At least he is consistent. He has screwed the fan base while he is alive; and he will screw the fan base when he departs this earth. What a guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Not confused at all. Simply pointing out to the poster I replied to that since the TV revenue sharing will be untouched then RW or any other owner stands little chance of being adversely affected. The owners will never alter the TV revenue sharing system they have. We agree on the shared revenue from other streams. The owners will NEVER agree to share more than what they begrudgingly have to give to the bottom 17 teams already. GO BILLS!!! I'm not willing to concede that TV revenue will be untouched. Why are you so certain that it will never be altered? Does it really benefit Jones, Snyder and the big markets to share equally with 32 teams? I'm sure they would argue that the teams with higher ratings, should receive more compensation. I don't agree, but I'm not convinced the big boys would mind being in a smaller league of 24 teams and getting a bigger piece of the pie. The Cowboys don't need a 32 team league to maximize their revenue and I'm sure that several of the smaller teams cost him money in revenue sharing and opportunity cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Really, moron? Network TV is the HUGEST guaranteed chunk of revenue the NFL owners realize. So, when the Jets/Giants play the Bills, NY/NJ/ne* fans don't watch the game on TV just as much as they would if their* team* played, say, Dallas, or Denver, or the Colts??? Mr. WEO's School of Revenue Sharing The value of the TV contracts does not derive from teams without a large national following, or from markets where the networks cannot get top ad revenue. In other words, Raplh doesn't get spotted 120 million because the nation is watching his team. And, unless pats fans have satellite TV, they won't be watching the Bills play Jets/Giants. Why don't you go back to quoting one of the worst college coaches in Texas? Don't you have school tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The value of the TV contracts does not derive from teams without a large national following, or from markets where the networks cannot get top ad revenue. In other words, Raplh doesn't get spotted 120 million because the nation is watching his team. And, unless pats fans have satellite TV, they won't be watching the Bills play Jets/Giants. Why don't you go back to quoting one of the worst college coaches in Texas? Don't you have school tomorrow? You freaking idiot - when the Bills are playing a NJ team, are the networks not drawing top ad $$$revenue$$$ from the NJ market? Should your own Fagsboro* Fops* take a lesser share of the shared TV revenue because you're* a smaller market and behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, and San Francisco in ad revenues??? And, does Ralph deserve no props at all for bailing your* stupid sorry-ass owner Billy Sullivan out of bankruptcy, same as he did with Al Davis and the Raiders? Actually, a-hole, having lived Boston for 7 years (and, regrettably, having had patriETTEs* season tix for 4 of 'em), I can attest there's no such thing as the fagsboro* faithful* - certainly YOU'VE* never been to a game there*. They'll* watch the Giants play the Bills before they'll watch bill* belicheat* & tom* 'the swallower' brady* play anyone. But you* probably don't get to watch the games in herring cove anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 You freaking idiot - when the Bills are playing a NJ team, are the networks not drawing top ad $$$revenue$$$ from the NJ market? Should your own Fagsboro* Fops* take a lesser share of the shared TV revenue because you're* a smaller market and behind New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas, and San Francisco in ad revenues??? And, does Ralph deserve no props at all for bailing your* stupid sorry-ass owner Billy Sullivan out of bankruptcy, same as he did with Al Davis and the Raiders? Actually, a-hole, having lived Boston for 7 years (and, regrettably, having had patriETTEs* season tix for 4 of 'em), I can attest there's no such thing as the fagsboro* faithful* - certainly YOU'VE* never been to a game there*. They'll* watch the Giants play the Bills before they'll watch bill* belicheat* & tom* 'the swallower' brady* play anyone. But you* probably don't get to watch the games in herring cove anyway. Whoa! A pats season ticket holder---WTF???? What a clown--a self hating pats fan, revealed! Gee, what closet will you be leaping out of next?? hmmmmm. You are a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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