dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/footba...tions_Rank.html. Given that they're 26th in value, that means that their income-to-value ratio is probably near the top. They're also tied for first in year-on-year positive change in value (3 percent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/footba...tions_Rank.html. Given that they're 26th in value, that means that their income-to-value ratio is probably near the top. They're also tied for first in year-on-year positive change in value (3 percent). Strange...they say we have a debt/value % of 14%. They define debt/value as including stadium debt. I didn't realize we have any debt (outside of, perhaps, short term commercial paper, which really should not be considered debt). Anyone have any insight here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got_Wood Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Wow, the Raiders are not looking good right now. In my mind, they are the best candidate to move to LA. That would restore them to their former location, and bring back the Raiders vs. Chargers rivalry in full effect. The fanbase is weak in Oakland from what I hear, and most of their true fans remain in the LA area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan74 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have a hard time believing any of these teams are worth over a billion dollars...to pay that price seems insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Strange...they say we have a debt/value % of 14%. They define debt/value as including stadium debt. I didn't realize we have any debt (outside of, perhaps, short term commercial paper, which really should not be considered debt). Anyone have any insight here? As far as I know, you are correct - I think the state/county have pretty much 'foot-the-bill' for any/all stadium improvements. Debt could be lots of things, but 14% would come to almost $130M - Ralph's Gulfstream, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Stench Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Strange...they say we have a debt/value % of 14%. They define debt/value as including stadium debt. I didn't realize we have any debt (outside of, perhaps, short term commercial paper, which really should not be considered debt). Anyone have any insight here? Wondering the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I have a hard time believing any of these teams are worth over a billion dollars...to pay that price seems insane. It is not when some will pay that amount. Owners don't want teams because they are solidly profitable. Rather, ownership is more like a club and entertainment for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 It is not when some will pay that amount. Owners don't want teams because they are solidly profitable. Rather, ownership is more like a club and entertainment for them. I disagree. Bob Kraft paid $175 million for the Patriots* in 1995. Less than 15 years later they are worth $1.361 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 15 years. Dan Snyder bought the Skins in 1999 for $800 million. Less than 10 years later they are worth $1.55 billion. Thats almost doubling your money in 10 years. Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 for $130 million. Less than 20 years later they are worth $1.650 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 20 years. Sign me up for those kind of returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Stench Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I disagree. Bob Kraft paid $175 million for the Patriots* in 1995. Less than 15 years later they are worth $1.361 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 15 years. Dan Snyder bought the Skins in 1999 for $800 million. Less than 10 years later they are worth $1.55 billion. Thats almost doubling your money in 10 years. Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 for $130 million. Less than 20 years later they are worth $1.650 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 20 years. Sign me up for those kind of returns. Agreed! NFL franchising has always been a great market to get into (How much did R.W. spend to get the Bills going?), and has gotten even stronger within the past 20-25 years. The revenue sharing system within the league significantly decreases the risk of going belly-up. The TV contracts that the league has signed has been huge for franchise owners as well. It'll be interesting to see how much these values grow in the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I disagree. Bob Kraft paid $175 million for the Patriots* in 1995. Less than 15 years later they are worth $1.361 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 15 years. Dan Snyder bought the Skins in 1999 for $800 million. Less than 10 years later they are worth $1.55 billion. Thats almost doubling your money in 10 years. Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 for $130 million. Less than 20 years later they are worth $1.650 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 20 years. Sign me up for those kind of returns. How much longer can that kind of growth persist? The NFL is so huge now it seems to me it's poised for a fall. I think the monster-sized egos of the league could easily make decisions that start to damage the popularity of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennjay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 How much did R.W. spend to get the Bills going $25,000 in 1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ennjay Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Strange...they say we have a debt/value % of 14%. They define debt/value as including stadium debt. I didn't realize we have any debt (outside of, perhaps, short term commercial paper, which really should not be considered debt). Anyone have any insight here? I'm wondering if they're including long-term (future) obligations under contracts and especially unpaid bonuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 How much longer can that kind of growth persist? The NFL is so huge now it seems to me it's poised for a fall. I think the monster-sized egos of the league could easily make decisions that start to damage the popularity of the game. Good question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 How much longer can that kind of growth persist? The NFL is so huge now it seems to me it's poised for a fall. I think the monster-sized egos of the league could easily make decisions that start to damage the popularity of the game. I think people were saying the same thing in 1978. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/30/footba...tions_Rank.html. Given that they're 26th in value, that means that their income-to-value ratio is probably near the top. They're also tied for first in year-on-year positive change in value (3 percent). Not sure what you mean by year on year but that 3% is above last year. Since they were formed they've averaged a 23.4% annual return. Not bad average over 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 so is this good news for those of us looking for reasons someone may want to keep the team in Buffalo? (and that it can survive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I disagree. Bob Kraft paid $175 million for the Patriots* in 1995. Less than 15 years later they are worth $1.361 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 15 years. Dan Snyder bought the Skins in 1999 for $800 million. Less than 10 years later they are worth $1.55 billion. Thats almost doubling your money in 10 years. Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 for $130 million. Less than 20 years later they are worth $1.650 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 20 years. Sign me up for those kind of returns. The "value" of a team can only be realized upon it's sale. It doesn't matter how much The pats or cowboys are worth--neither owner is selling. All that matters in a real sense is margin after expenses, taxes and debt service. This is why Ralph has one of the most valuable positions in the league. He's made hundred's of millions over the years. I would bet that, despite his tired act to the contrary, he is the envy of most owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Anybody have $909 million that I can borrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 so is this good news for those of us looking for reasons someone may want to keep the team in Buffalo? (and that it can survive) I don't think the Bills are going anywhere. I think that's just panic-talk. They're a pretty stable franchise (except for the winning part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 I disagree. Bob Kraft paid $175 million for the Patriots* in 1995. Less than 15 years later they are worth $1.361 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 15 years. Dan Snyder bought the Skins in 1999 for $800 million. Less than 10 years later they are worth $1.55 billion. Thats almost doubling your money in 10 years. Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 for $130 million. Less than 20 years later they are worth $1.650 billion. Thats more than a tenfold increase in 20 years. Sign me up for those kind of returns. Kraft and Jones did well, but if I recall the "Law of 72" correctly, Snyder's annual return comes out to about 7%, not sparkling by any means in a normal investment market..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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