Man do I miss Winfield

[Pete]

Watching Winfield flying around making plays- we need that type of player on D! Pat Williams anchors that line. And we could of had McKinnie over Williams. Our front office really blew those 3 moves!

[bizell]

McKinnie hasn't really lived up to his hype, although he has been a decent player.

[DrDawkinstein]

Watching Winfield flying around making plays- we need that type of player on D! Pat Williams anchors that line. And we could of had McKinnie over Williams. Our front office really blew those 3 moves!

 

ill agree that letting Pat Williams walk was one of the (if not THE) biggest mistake this franchise has made in the past 15 years.

 

but Winfield also got burned for a TD last night (in the little bit of the game i saw). he's good, but not great.

 

and while McKinnie has turned out better than Williams, they were on the same level for the first few years there. close call.

[Peter]

Watching Winfield flying around making plays- we need that type of player on D! Pat Williams anchors that line. And we could of had McKinnie over Williams. Our front office really blew those 3 moves!

 

I agree with you 100%.

[The Jokeman]

ill agree that letting Pat Williams walk was one of the (if not THE) biggest mistake this franchise has made in the past 15 years.

 

but Winfield also got burned for a TD last night (in the little bit of the game i saw). he's good, but not great.

 

and while McKinnie has turned out better than Williams, they were on the same level for the first few years there. close call.

how? McKinnie plays LT where Williams was a RT. Haven't we learned yet that these are two totally different positions? Just because the Bills seemingly shift their RTs to LT doesn't mean it's really that "easy". I'd welcome having McKinnie then Jennings/Peters/Walker/Bell/Scott/ insert our next LT name here. As lack of stability on the O-line one of the key reasons we've struggled over the years.

[DrDawkinstein]

how? McKinnie plays LT where Williams was a RT. Haven't we learned yet that these are two totally different positions? Just because the Bills seemingly shift their RTs to LT doesn't mean it's really that "easy". I'd welcome having McKinnie then Jennings/Peters/Walker/Bell/Scott/ insert our next LT name here. As lack of stability on the O-line one of the key reasons we've struggled over the years.

 

he struggled on and off the field through his first few seasons and was largely thought to be a bust. that's what I meant by "on the same level". its only been recently that he has gotten his act together. and given the Franchise history, who knows if the Bills would have stuck with McKinnie through his problems.

[StupidNation]

ill agree that letting Pat Williams walk was one of the (if not THE) biggest mistake this franchise has made in the past 15 years.

 

but Winfield also got burned for a TD last night (in the little bit of the game i saw). he's good, but not great.

 

and while McKinnie has turned out better than Williams, they were on the same level for the first few years there. close call.

 

McKinnie was not at the same level as Williams ever. His rookie year was rough, but after that he was solid in his 2nd, not great, and above average LT... something we still need.

[Pete]

how? McKinnie plays LT where Williams was a RT. Haven't we learned yet that these are two totally different positions? Just because the Bills seemingly shift their RTs to LT doesn't mean it's really that "easy". I'd welcome having McKinnie then Jennings/Peters/Walker/Bell/Scott/ insert our next LT name here. As lack of stability on the O-line one of the key reasons we've struggled over the years.

Please tell me who our stud LT was that we passed on a LT, and drafted a RT? We needed LT, LG, C, RG, RT in 2002. In case you haven't noticed our oline has been in shambles the past 20 years. LT is a good place to start buildting a RT. Thanks for explaining that RT and LT are different positions professor! I would of rather we selected Albert Haynsworth, John Henderson, and Ed Reed. Are you going to explain to me that S and DT are different positions too?

[KD in CA]

but Winfield also got burned for a TD last night (in the little bit of the game i saw). he's good, but not great.

 

Dude is a gamer. I'd take Winfield over any DB the Bills have had since they drafted him.

[Mickey]

Please tell me who our stud LT was that we passed on a LT, and drafted a RT? We needed LT, LG, C, RG, RT in 2004. In case you haven't noticed our oline has been in shambles the past 20 years. LT is a good place to start buildting a RT. Thanks for explaining that RT and LT are different positions professor!

At the time, I argued for taking McKinnie, not because I foresaw Williams as a bust but simply because he played RT in college, not LT. Those with whom I argued believed that Williams was only at RT because their QB was a lefty. I argued that regardless, Williams didn't go up against the best pass rushers week in and week out and that playing on the right is like being right handed, its not so easy to switch to being left handed. I just saw more risk with Williams than with McKinnie and with the 4th pick, who wants risk? That was essentially a disaster for the team.

 

As for Winfield, arguing that he is good but not great thus we were justified in letting him go as he we would have had to "overpay" to keep him, misses the point I think. When you lose a guy like that, you have to replace him and that means that he costs you a draft pick. Two really, the one you used to get him and the one you used to replace him. There is no guarantee that his replacement will be great either or even as "good" as Winfield was. Whoever you get will also require time to become the veteran Winfield was. If that replacement doesn't work out, then you have to spend yet another draft pick. Its also not as if his replacement would be free.

 

So one hand you have a solid player worth "X" who is asking for a new contract worth X + Y. You have to weigh the "Y" against the drop off in quality while you find a successor, the worth of one or more draft picks to find that successor, the time to find & train him to be at least as good as Winfiled and the contract of that successor. I would even add the possibility that if you do get lucky and find a successor as good as Winfield, sooner or later you are going to face the same issue all over again.

 

Fans who simply look at the new contract a player like Winfield is demanding and conclude that we should let him go because, for example, he wants 30M for 5 years and he is only worth 25M for 5 years are focusing on the easiest to see factors and ignoring all the rest.

 

Really, the bottom line is that you do not improve a team by letting its most productive players go. Winfield had problems for sure, he probably is not a hall of famer but he is as good or better than anyone we have had at the position since. He might be one of the surest tacklers I have ever seen. The Patriots and Bellicheck stayed away from him and instead always focused on going against Clements. That kind of respect doesn't drop from the sky, the guy could play.

[John Adams]

Great. A thread dedicated to a DB. Dick Jaron would be so happy.

[Fan in San Diego]

I agree with you 100%.

 

The talent scouts and FO have killed this team. How many 1st round picks and high round picks havebeen duds? If we had made better selections like Ngata, Mangold etc., we would be alot team better now.

[WellDressed]

This is the single most painful post I've read in a long time. It truthfully questions why I'm a Bills fan. I need some milk.

 

 

At the time, I argued for taking McKinnie, not because I foresaw Williams as a bust but simply because he played RT in college, not LT. Those with whom I argued believed that Williams was only at RT because their QB was a lefty. I argued that regardless, Williams didn't go up against the best pass rushers week in and week out and that playing on the right is like being right handed, its not so easy to switch to being left handed. I just saw more risk with Williams than with McKinnie and with the 4th pick, who wants risk? That was essentially a disaster for the team.

 

As for Winfield, arguing that he is good but not great thus we were justified in letting him go as he we would have had to "overpay" to keep him, misses the point I think. When you lose a guy like that, you have to replace him and that means that he costs you a draft pick. Two really, the one you used to get him and the one you used to replace him. There is no guarantee that his replacement will be great either or even as "good" as Winfield was. Whoever you get will also require time to become the veteran Winfield was. If that replacement doesn't work out, then you have to spend yet another draft pick. Its also not as if his replacement would be free.

 

So one hand you have a solid player worth "X" who is asking for a new contract worth X + Y. You have to weigh the "Y" against the drop off in quality while you find a successor, the worth of one or more draft picks to find that successor, the time to find & train him to be at least as good as Winfiled and the contract of that successor. I would even add the possibility that if you do get lucky and find a successor as good as Winfield, sooner or later you are going to face the same issue all over again.

 

Fans who simply look at the new contract a player like Winfield is demanding and conclude that we should let him go because, for example, he wants 30M for 5 years and he is only worth 25M for 5 years are focusing on the easiest to see factors and ignoring all the rest.

 

Really, the bottom line is that you do not improve a team by letting its most productive players go. Winfield had problems for sure, he probably is not a hall of famer but he is as good or better than anyone we have had at the position since. He might be one of the surest tacklers I have ever seen. The Patriots and Bellicheck stayed away from him and instead always focused on going against Clements. That kind of respect doesn't drop from the sky, the guy could play.

[Mr. WEO]

At the time, I argued for taking McKinnie, not because I foresaw Williams as a bust but simply because he played RT in college, not LT. Those with whom I argued believed that Williams was only at RT because their QB was a lefty. I argued that regardless, Williams didn't go up against the best pass rushers week in and week out and that playing on the right is like being right handed, its not so easy to switch to being left handed. I just saw more risk with Williams than with McKinnie and with the 4th pick, who wants risk? That was essentially a disaster for the team.

 

As for Winfield, arguing that he is good but not great thus we were justified in letting him go as he we would have had to "overpay" to keep him, misses the point I think. When you lose a guy like that, you have to replace him and that means that he costs you a draft pick. Two really, the one you used to get him and the one you used to replace him. There is no guarantee that his replacement will be great either or even as "good" as Winfield was. Whoever you get will also require time to become the veteran Winfield was. If that replacement doesn't work out, then you have to spend yet another draft pick. Its also not as if his replacement would be free.

 

So one hand you have a solid player worth "X" who is asking for a new contract worth X + Y. You have to weigh the "Y" against the drop off in quality while you find a successor, the worth of one or more draft picks to find that successor, the time to find & train him to be at least as good as Winfiled and the contract of that successor. I would even add the possibility that if you do get lucky and find a successor as good as Winfield, sooner or later you are going to face the same issue all over again.

 

Fans who simply look at the new contract a player like Winfield is demanding and conclude that we should let him go because, for example, he wants 30M for 5 years and he is only worth 25M for 5 years are focusing on the easiest to see factors and ignoring all the rest.

 

Really, the bottom line is that you do not improve a team by letting its most productive players go. Winfield had problems for sure, he probably is not a hall of famer but he is as good or better than anyone we have had at the position since. He might be one of the surest tacklers I have ever seen. The Patriots and Bellicheck stayed away from him and instead always focused on going against Clements. That kind of respect doesn't drop from the sky, the guy could play.

He's no better a CB than McGee. No better than Greer--who we should have kept. Winfield is a great tackler--after his man catches the ball, covers the run well. Call him a safety and maybe you have an argument.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I agree with you 100%.

 

 

We could have also drafted Cutler instead of Whitner and we could have also drafted Ed Reed