Thurman#1 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Here are my final thoughts on the Peters saga. I was ALL FOR the Bills resigning Peters & was disappointed when he was traded. Anyone can look up my posts to see I'm telling the truth. There is no way to know if he would have signed with the Bills or not for the amount he signed with the Eagles. It was only after reading Peters remarks after the trade that I changed my mind about him. Those remarks along with the hold out & POOR PLAY the previous year spoke volumes about Peters character or lack there of to me. He may have a very good career with the Eagles. I do not care. He is not a player I want on the team I love. That's what all the arguments of the Peters haters come down to. "I don't like him, so I don't want him on my team." Fine. If you had said that in the first place, I couldn't have objected. I certainly disagree. To me, unless a guy commits criminal offenses or is a locker room cancer - and neither applies to Peters - then I think that getting rid of sensational players at important positions is truly bad for the team. I want the Bills to succeed and Peters would have helped them do that. They took a huge drop in talent at a crucial positiion because Peters isn't cuddly. This makes no sense. So I disagree, but I certainly think you have a right to your opinion. But I have waited 24 hours now and you still haven't provided me with a link for your bold statement. And you also haven't admitted that you can't. You just ran away. I don't understand what you are trying to say. He did NOT sign with the Bills, although it has been reported the Bills offered him the same money the Eagles paid him. You said this way back on P. 15 of this thread, on October 13th at 4:30 PM. And I asked for a link. You have had a lot of time to look. If you can't find it (and you won't be able to, because it simply was never reported), then you should come back and admit it like a man. So let me ask one more time ... LINK?
Thurman#1 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I don't really see how any of that matters. The reall issue is what happened during the offseason in 2008, not the failed attempt to sign him before the 2009 draft resulting in the trade to Philly. The Bills could have and should have signed him to an extension then. Something they could have done for less than whatever he was asking a year later. That was before the press conference Brandon had when camp opened in 2008 publicly calling out Peters. Throughout the contractual impasse that offseason, Parker and Peters did not classlessly conduct negotiations in public or try to use fan pressure against the Bills by getting them all riled up with a press conference of their own. The Bills poisoned their relationship beyond repair. I said then that it was a mistake to alienate a very good player who, sooner or later, you are going to have to negotiate with. I said then that Peters would end up never wanting to play for the Bills at any price. He wanted a new deal, they wanted one more year out of him before discussing a new deal. The two sides had nothing to really talk about all offseason and during training camp. Neither side blinked until Peters finally reported in time to make sure he didn't miss a game check. About the only significant event in that whole time was the press conference Brandon had afterwhich this board exploaded. People actually believed that the problem wasn't the money now or next year problem but a communication problem. The only reason for Brandon to do what he did in that press conference was to use the press and the fans to pressure Peters. It didn't work. Parker and Peters whatever mistakes you may think they made, they never played that card. It looks to me like the Peters haters have had to abandon their first point which was that Peters stinks and our line was improved without him because Walker and Chambers showed they were just as good when they held down the fort early in 2008. They seemlessly moved off of that to Demetrius Bell being the reason we didn't need Peters. Now that iit s clear that it was a mistake to lose Peters, something that was obvious everywhere outside the confines of this board, they have moved to a different point, that Peters wasn't going to sign with the Bills at any price so the Bills didn't really lose him, they had no choice and just did the best they could. That notion however ignores what started in February of 2008 and focuses only on what little we know about the negotiations in 2009 that ultimately failed. For those who want to torture themselves and those who will demand links, here is a link to a post showing my opinions then with links on the negotiations: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?...amp;pid=1111692 In February of 2008, Peters had not yet held out, there had been no stupid press conference flaying Peters to the fans and Peters was a year further from free agency than he was in 2009. He wanted a new deal then and they wanted another year out of him under his old contract. It was a standoff that ultimately resolved to the detriment of the team and its fortunes on the field. You simply do not improve a team by losing good players. Why fans get so obsessed over player contracts as if Ralph's money was their money, I'll never understand. So many get positively apoplectic over the idea of a player getting paid more than he is worth. Far less concern is ever expressed when a player is performing better than his contract. My only concern about contracts is the effect it has on keeping good players. Peters was a good player. So was Pat Williams, so was Antoine Winfield, so was Jabari Greer. If anyone of us picked up the paper in the morning and saw that the Bills just signed anyone of those guys, we'd all be smiling for a day or two over it. Man, is this a good post. I wish I could write this well, Mickey. Good stuff.
Thurman#1 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Sorry, on one of my earlier posts, on the last page, I forgot to post the link. Here is the key portion of the post, with the link: Here is a site which ranks the top-salaried players in the NFL by salary. Peters doesn't even make the top 25. The top 25 ends with Calvin Pace, who recieved $12 million. And these salaries are LAST YEAR'S. Salaries go up, and this year's will be even higher. http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal....aspx?year=2008 Peter King ranked Peters as the 32nd best player in the game. In the year 2006. And while he didn't have a good 2008, every time he has attended training camp, including 2009, he has only gotten better. Complain all you want about paying a guy a large percentage of the salary cap. When you are talking about elite players, this is simply the price of fielding a team in the NFL.
Thurman#1 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 It just gets worse and worse. Jamon Meredith may start at RT this week.
Like A Mofo Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 It just gets worse and worse. Jamon Meredith may start at RT this week. Who??? :wallbash: :wallbash:
MarkyMannn Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Why still debate this? The guy is gone and is never coming back. So what? It's over, there is no point to prove now except to drive up post counts
Mickey Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Man, is this a good post. I wish I could write this well, Mickey. Good stuff. Thanks, you are more than holding your own. There actually were decent, rational reasons for the Bills to play hardball with Peters. In my opinion the balance of interests weighed heavily in favor of signing him to a new conrtract in the spring of 2008 but there were good arguments to make on the other side. What was maddening to me was that rather than make those rational arguments, people like Sen mostly hurled personal insults of the worst kind at Peters and at anyone on the board who dared post anything supporting Peters or questioning the wisdom of the team's strategy. I never understood and still don't, why it is that people here turn with such a mean spirited vengeance against fellow Bills fans who disagree on some issue related to the team. It is one thing to post your opinion that Peters or Jauron is a moron but quite another to post that anyone who disagrees is also a moron. It is obnoxious and regularly leads to one toxic thread after another. Can you even imagine anyone showing up at a tailgate and saying that kind of stuff to peoples faces? I doubt even the worst offenders here would of act like that on their worst day. But give them a patina of anonymity and watch out. I guess that is the nature of these boards so you just have to deal. If you can avoid wrestling with the trees, there is a forest of information to be found here.
Like A Mofo Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Why still debate this? The guy is gone and is never coming back. So what? It's over, there is no point to prove now except to drive up post counts Got any other ideas? Debate JP?
billsfreak Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Isn't anyone besides me tired of this idiotic post yet? It has been on here forever.
billsfreak Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 It just gets worse and worse. Jamon Meredith may start at RT this week. Isn't "Jamon" from the Islands?
billsfreak Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Sorry, on one of my earlier posts, on the last page, I forgot to post the link. Here is the key portion of the post, with the link: Here is a site which ranks the top-salaried players in the NFL by salary. Peters doesn't even make the top 25. The top 25 ends with Calvin Pace, who recieved $12 million. And these salaries are LAST YEAR'S. Salaries go up, and this year's will be even higher. http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal....aspx?year=2008 Peter King ranked Peters as the 32nd best player in the game. In the year 2006. And while he didn't have a good 2008, every time he has attended training camp, including 2009, he has only gotten better. Complain all you want about paying a guy a large percentage of the salary cap. When you are talking about elite players, this is simply the price of fielding a team in the NFL. Any team that starts assembling their roster based on what Peter King thinks will probably never win a game.
PDaDdy Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 No, you're not being a jerk--you just don't seem to understand what you originally posted. You said: Imagine if you and I had to sign contracts to work with our employer? A company brings us along and rewards our performance with an assistant manager job and pay grade and then shortly there after fires our manager and give us all of their responsibilities. Instead of giving us the corresponding pay raise, they ask us to handle all of a managers responsibilities for a few years but do it at an assistant managers pay. You would tell your employer where they could go and what they could "do" to themselves and find an employer that appreciated you for your worth and market value skills. Most of us with any brain and ambition would do the same thing in their PROFESSION of choice!!!! I was simply pointing out that the analogy was poor because "any of us in [our] PROFESSION of choice" could do as you say. Your current post agrees with mine and contradicts the above; i.e., you now claim such an option only exists for the most highly talented at specific jobs. Anyway, JP held out, showed up in horrible shape and was part of an O-line that allowed a ton of sacks. As for durability, he again failed to complete a season at LT. The question of his "greatness" is legitimate, regardless of your inability to acknowledge it. For the record, I am familiar with jobs with a great demand for skill and a limited supply of talent. My initial statement about YOU and I was in regards to people like you and I finding a better job because we were given additional responsibilities, NOT temporarily when people are fired or leave the company for a short period of time, BUT PERMANENTLY. Don't try to confuse or twist my point so that you can create some imaginary valid response to it. My comment was for a situation where that employee is given those responsibilities for a year or two. Hardly the image you attempted to paint. Actually I think it is you who doesn't understand what you posted. You spoke of someone walking out on their job and trying to find employment after having done so. My response to this statement of YOURS was that professional football was one of those jobs where you could walk out and expect to be picked up immediately if you have the talent. I IN NO WAY SUGGESTED THAT YOU AND I WOULD "WALK OUT" ON OUR JOB. Merely that we would find another one. Most intelligent people would assume that to mean that you look for a new job while retaining the old one. Obviously he did, He got signed for the money he wanted. Another poster already said this but it is REALLY sad how people without character won't admit that it was their personal feelings that come into play when running down Peters. It hasn't worked to this point but I'll say it again in case it might sink in the 1001'st time. IT IS A BUSINESS!!!!! These people fooled themselves into thinking he sucked and could easily be replaced, WRONG, he wasn't worth the money, WRONG, Philly paid it and smiled. Now their sad little last ditch effort is some completely unsubstantiated claim that he would have never signed with Buffalo for that money. Just sad! Truly sad.
PDaDdy Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Let me point out that unless you are the NFL executive involved in making the decision, your only choice is to guess or to not comment. The important point there isn't "guess," it is "if I had to..." OK, if you're not getting the point that there is still a chance of having a salary cap in 2010, and that that has a MAJOR effect on the thoughts and actions of NFL GMs, you're not really worth talking to. Gosh, you have shocked me there. You mean that our best player would have eaten up about 8% (actual figure, rather than your own inflated one) of the cap? Wow. Shocking. If that were true, we would join far more than half the teams in the NFL. The best players in the league get more money than the worst. This won't change. If you want to be surprised and frustrated by it, feel free, but it's a fact of life in the NFL. Here is a site which ranks the top-salaried players in the NFL by salary. Peters doesn't even make the top 25. The top 25 ends with Calvin Pace, who recieved $12 million. And these salaries are LAST YEAR'S. Salaries go up, and this year's will be even higher. http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal....aspx?year=2008 Peter King ranked Peters as the 32nd best player in the game. In the year 2006. And while he didn't have a good 2008, he has only gotten better. He's currently listed as the second-best tackle in the league at profootballfocus.com, and it's worth noting that the #1, Joe Thomas, is being ranked on five games, while they apparently haven't had time to evaluate Peters' last game yet, so he's only being ranked on three games. Since their system gives points for plays that effect or change games, when they evaluate him on week 5, his score is likely to go up. Go ahead and get all hissy about his salary eating up a percentage of the cap if you want, but he's a highly elite player at what is generally considered the second or third most important position in the game. He's worth it. WHAT HE SAID!!! How have we been doing letting our stars go and not paying them?????? Maybe we should try a different approach than we have the last 13 year...mmmm? Just sayin'.
PDaDdy Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 Why still debate this? The guy is gone and is never coming back. So what? It's over, there is no point to prove now except to drive up post counts A VERY good question. The ONLY and I mean ONLY reason we still discuss it is because SOME people won't admit that he was a) a GREAT player b) We probably SHOULD have paid him c) The ONLY reason they can hold against him is that they don't like that the NFL is a business and an employee will generally go to the employer willing to pay them the highest or AT LEAST fair market value for their talent. ONCE PEOPLE CAN ADMIT THESE THINGS THE DISCUSSION ENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
timbuk3 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 I think Bell has played pretty well. The fact that he's hurt kind of hurts evaluating him, but I think he's done pretty well considering he was just thrown in there. Hell, he still may end up playing more games this year, than Peters played last year. Sorry, but Bell is not even close to where Peter's was in his prime. Every time there is an OL penalty, I wait to hear the now familiar "Holding #77 offence" or "False start #77".
Mr. WEO Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 My initial statement about YOU and I was in regards to people like you and I finding a better job because we were given additional responsibilities, NOT temporarily when people are fired or leave the company for a short period of time, BUT PERMANENTLY. Don't try to confuse or twist my point so that you can create some imaginary valid response to it. My comment was for a situation where that employee is given those responsibilities for a year or two. Hardly the image you attempted to paint. Actually I think it is you who doesn't understand what you posted. You spoke of someone walking out on their job and trying to find employment after having done so. My response to this statement of YOURS was that professional football was one of those jobs where you could walk out and expect to be picked up immediately if you have the talent. I IN NO WAY SUGGESTED THAT YOU AND I WOULD "WALK OUT" ON OUR JOB. Merely that we would find another one. Most intelligent people would assume that to mean that you look for a new job while retaining the old one. Obviously he did, He got signed for the money he wanted. Another poster already said this but it is REALLY sad how people without character won't admit that it was their personal feelings that come into play when running down Peters. It hasn't worked to this point but I'll say it again in case it might sink in the 1001'st time. IT IS A BUSINESS!!!!! These people fooled themselves into thinking he sucked and could easily be replaced, WRONG, he wasn't worth the money, WRONG, Philly paid it and smiled. Now their sad little last ditch effort is some completely unsubstantiated claim that he would have never signed with Buffalo for that money. Just sad! Truly sad. You can (re)qualify your previous posts as many times as you wish. You said what you said. Anyway, if you are wedded to JP's "greatness", that's just....great, I guess. But to simply dismiss the existance of a legitmate debate over his being the player you describe, it's quite revealing. You saw him play last year--is that the desription of "greatness"? He held out (that's akin to "walking out on a job"--it's called "refusing to show up for work") for a while, then showed up overweight and woefully out of shape. Anyway, he's gone---and our QB is still getting sacked as if he was still here. So there you go.
DIE HARD 1967 Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 How does this thread rate 400 responses????
Like A Mofo Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 How does this thread rate 400 responses???? And the irony of it all: You added to it
PDaDdy Posted October 16, 2009 Posted October 16, 2009 You can (re)qualify your previous posts as many times as you wish. You said what you said. Anyway, if you are wedded to JP's "greatness", that's just....great, I guess. But to simply dismiss the existance of a legitmate debate over his being the player you describe, it's quite revealing. You saw him play last year--is that the desription of "greatness"? He held out (that's akin to "walking out on a job"--it's called "refusing to show up for work") for a while, then showed up overweight and woefully out of shape. Anyway, he's gone---and our QB is still getting sacked as if he was still here. So there you go. If you had any acceptable level of reading comprehension I wouldn't need to explain myself. No (re)qualification in there at all. You tried to make something up and change my argument to make your response valid. Nice try buddy but no dice ! Keeeeeeep telling yourself Peters was no good. His (un)great last year as I have said was a down year for him due to the hold out but it is LIGHT YEARS ahead of what we have today. Keep reminding yourself how much JP sucks the next time you hear "False start #77" or "Offsides #77". Remember how fat and out of shape JP was when our run game gets blown up on the left side or when Trent is trying to pick up his teeth from a bone jarring hit from his blind side
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