kota Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Trent has made some bad throws and poor decisions. I don't think anyone will deny that. I also think that most people here agree that Dick Jauron needs to be let go with the entire coaching staff and front office. In looking at Trent's stats this morning if found something very interesting. He has been sacked 16 times this year. He was sacked only 23 times the entire 2008 season. I realize he was injuried but 16 times in 4 games? That is some what stupid. This one stat points out a serious problem which is the OLine and the coaching staff. I see Trent Edwards trying to go down field but also something stupid happens. The pocket collapses due to poor blocking or the receiviers aren't open so he has to eat the ball or check down. I see it every game. I think the current OLine could be good if not great but the coaching staff couldn't figure out their Oline until a week before the season. Training camp was a waste for the OLINE because there wasn't any time for them to GEL or gain chemistry. The Bills training staff dropped the ball and then tried to patch it together. So you take the patchwork OLINe and mix in some rediculous play calling and you now have our wonderful season so far. The Bills lack any kind of offensive creativity. They run the toss sweep 8000 times a game and do out patterns of 10 yards or more. The Bills are not using the middle of the field at all again this season. TO isn't being put over the middle where he excels at. Steve Johnson is on the bench. I don't see any play action, pump fakes from Trent, Draw Plays or boot legs. It's all drop back and pass. I also don't understand why the Bills feel the need to want to rush the ball into the endzone when they get within the 20 yard line. They don't take any shots at the end zone to stop the Defense from playing 8 in the box. So there you have it folks. Poor Oline play and poor play calling points to one conclusion. The Bills coaching staff is terrible. I personally would like Dick Jauron to be fired tomorrow and have Bobby April become the Head Coach of the Bills. At least he shows some emotion on the sideline and appears to be creative.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Trent has made some bad throws and poor decisions. I don't think anyone will deny that. I also think that most people here agree that Dick Jauron needs to be let go with the entire coaching staff and front office. In looking at Trent's stats this morning if found something very interesting. He has been sacked 16 times this year. He was sacked only 23 times the entire 2008 season. I realize he was injuried but 16 times in 4 games? That is some what stupid. This one stat points out a serious problem which is the OLine and the coaching staff. I see Trent Edwards trying to go down field but also something stupid happens. The pocket collapses due to poor blocking or the receiviers aren't open so he has to eat the ball or check down. I see it every game. I think the current OLine could be good if not great but the coaching staff couldn't figure out their Oline until a week before the season. Training camp was a waste for the OLINE because there wasn't any time for them to GEL or gain chemistry. The Bills training staff dropped the ball and then tried to patch it together. So you take the patchwork OLINe and mix in some rediculous play calling and you now have our wonderful season so far. The Bills lack any kind of offensive creativity. They run the toss sweep 8000 times a game and do out patterns of 10 yards or more. The Bills are not using the middle of the field at all again this season. TO isn't being put over the middle where he excels at. Steve Johnson is on the bench. I don't see any play action, pump fakes from Trent, Draw Plays or boot legs. It's all drop back and pass. I also don't understand why the Bills feel the need to want to rush the ball into the endzone when they get within the 20 yard line. They don't take any shots at the end zone to stop the Defense from playing 8 in the box. So there you have it folks. Poor Oline play and poor play calling points to one conclusion. The Bills coaching staff is terrible. I personally would like Dick Jauron to be fired tomorrow and have Bobby April become the Head Coach of the Bills. At least he shows some emotion on the sideline and appears to be creative. O-Line and coaching don't help. But Trent is a gutless QB. And great QB play overcomes all. If I had to allocate blame, it would be as follows: 75% Trent 25% Coaching 25% O-Line
bbills17 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 O-Line and coaching don't help. But Trent is a gutless QB. And great QB play overcomes all. If I had to allocate blame, it would be as follows: 75% Trent 25% Coaching 25% O-Line And I would say you don't have a clue, putting this 75% on Trent shows how little you know about football.
dave mcbride Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 O-Line and coaching don't help. But Trent is a gutless QB. And great QB play overcomes all. If I had to allocate blame, it would be as follows: 75% Trent 25% Coaching 25% O-Line The scheme is terrible -- possibly the worst I've seen from any team. Assuming that scheme equals coaching, I'd assign it about 60 percent of the blame. It's too simple, offers too few options, and is remarkably easy to defend against. With NO and Miami, it's like their coordinators knew the plays before they happened. Schonert did a disservice to Pop Warner when he equated it with Jauron's plans to reshape the offense.
Fewell733 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 The scheme is terrible -- possibly the worst I've seen from any team. Assuming that scheme equals coaching, I'd assign it about 60 percent of the blame. It's too simple, offers too few options, and is remarkably easy to defend against. With NO and Miami, it's like their coordinators knew the plays before they happened. Schonert did a disservice to Pop Warner when he equated it with Jauron's plans to reshape the offense. Agree, our passing game's design seems really screwed up. We don't seem to run the same kind of routes that basically every other team does. Why don't we have come back routes? Why no quick slants? But Schonert's criticism isn't right since his offense looked the same last year. I don't think simplicity is the problem. I think the problem is predictability and a failure to adjust or prepare for what the defense is bringing. This past week our tackles killed us. but that goes to coaching to. They knew our tackle situation was bad, we have to be able to mask it and still be competitive. Other teams do it all the time. Still, Edwards made a bunch of lousy passes. He takes a good share of the blame as well.
sharper802 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 The scheme is terrible -- possibly the worst I've seen from any team. Assuming that scheme equals coaching, I'd assign it about 60 percent of the blame. It's too simple, offers too few options, and is remarkably easy to defend against. With NO and Miami, it's like their coordinators knew the plays before they happened. Schonert did a disservice to Pop Warner when he equated it with Jauron's plans to reshape the offense. Remember Bill Clinton' line "It's the economy stupid" It's the line. End of story. You can't make any decision about the QB, the WR's, the RB's, or even AVP with the makeshift o-line that was trotted out there Sunday. Don't get me wrong I think AVP has been outcoached the last two weeks and want him gone with DJ ASAP but there is no way to know. Bring in Gruden and let him call the plays.
reddogblitz Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I'd put it at: 50 % Trent 30 % OLine 20 % scheme This is Trent's third OC. Do they all have bad schemes? Maybe, but I haven't noticed any difference in his play form OC1 to OC2 to OC3. My theory is that Turk and now Alex have tried to open it up but Trent just won't throw it to the WRs with any consistency for whatever reason. Pathetic. We'll suck as long as we have Trent and Dick running things. My prediction: Trent will be out of the NFL next year.
Fewell733 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Remember Bill Clinton' line "It's the economy stupid" It's the line. End of story. You can't make any decision about the QB, the WR's, the RB's, or even AVP with the makeshift o-line that was trotted out there Sunday. Don't get me wrong I think AVP has been outcoached the last two weeks and want him gone with DJ ASAP but there is no way to know. Bring in Gruden and let him call the plays. It's true that the offense really shutdown once Chambers replaced Bell in the Saints game. We had at least moved the ball some before that - though kept shooting ourselves in the foot. Since Chambers has been in there we look almost totally impotent minus some good receiving by Jackson and Lynch.
Zackry00 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 O-Line and coaching don't help. But Trent is a gutless QB. And great QB play overcomes all. If I had to allocate blame, it would be as follows: 75% Trent 25% Coaching 25% O-Line Since when is there 125% of anything. Trent is responsible, but I believe the whole offense is equally responsible, minus a few players (Jackson, Reed). It is a team and Trent is the supposed leader. He is not leading, but he's also not getting any protection. I'd break it down like this: Coaching: 40% Trent: 35% O-line: 25%
reddogblitz Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Remember Bill Clinton' line "It's the economy stupid" It's the line. End of story. You can't make any decision about the QB, the WR's, the RB's, or even AVP with the makeshift o-line that was trotted out there Sunday. I think you're right to a point. But really, when Trent does have time to throw he still does the same thing. He had plenty of time to throw when he threw the pick six. Didn't help. He's just not very good. Do you really think if we had Big Ben or Joe Flacco we'd be getting the same poor production from the QB spot?
dave mcbride Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I'd put it at: 50 % Trent 30 % OLine 20 % scheme This is Trent's third OC. Do they all have bad schemes? Maybe, but I haven't noticed any difference in his play form OC1 to OC2 to OC3. My theory is that Turk and now Alex have tried to open it up but Trent just won't throw it to the WRs with any consistency for whatever reason. Pathetic. We'll suck as long as we have Trent and Dick running things. My prediction: Trent will be out of the NFL next year. Actually, I believe that in the right situation, he'll be a productive player. Not great, but a guy who can last 12-15 years if he doesn't get injured. He is playing terribly right now, that's for sure. But it is the case that the line is an utter joke and that they've dumbed down the offense to a sub-NFL level. It'd be hard for anyone to make plays given that situation.
Maddog69 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I think you're looking at it wrong. There is not one factor that is to blame for the Bills failures. Trent is 100% responsible for his own poor play. You can say that coaching, playcalling, line play, all the other crap factor in, but I think good QB's show their skill regardless of the team/coaches around them. Yes, a QB in the right situation has the most success. My point is that Trent sucks. He is no more than a backup NFL QB. At the same time, the Bills coaches almost all suck, the front office sucks and Ralph sucks. The franchise mired in a losing culture that comes down from the top. Trent not to blame for any of that. He is responsible for not being very good (more accurately genetics or god are responsible but thats a whole other conversation). I guess I just don't like the premise of trying to place blame for the Bills current plight on any one person. There is plenty of blame to go around. But it ultimately all falls on the man who owns the team.
MattyT Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 And great QB play overcomes all. How many of these QBs have there been in the history of the NFL? Prob less than 10.
Orton's Arm Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 O-Line and coaching don't help. But Trent is a gutless QB. And great QB play overcomes all. If I had to allocate blame, it would be as follows: 75% Trent 25% Coaching 25% O-Line The bolded statement is simply untrue. You might want to recall the AFC Championship Game between the Bills and the Kansas City Chiefs. The Chiefs' quarterback was Joe Montana: the very definition of great QB play, even at that stage in his career. But Montana's supporting cast was flat-out dominated by the Bills' defense. As a result, Montana led the Chiefs to just two first-half field goals, before being knocked out of the game with a concussion around halftime. His replacement--Bono--led the Chiefs to 7 points in the second half. The Bills won that game, 30-13. Good QB play can accentuate the strengths of your offense's supporting cast, while masking some of its weaknesses. But even the best QB can only do so much to make the rest of your offense look better than it really is.
muffmonster Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Actually, I believe that in the right situation, he'll be a productive player. Not great, but a guy who can last 12-15 years if he doesn't get injured. He is playing terribly right now, that's for sure. But it is the case that the line is an utter joke and that they've dumbed down the offense to a sub-NFL level. It'd be hard for anyone to make plays given that situation. So if the Bill's offense is dumbed down to a sub-NFL level now and Trent can't seem to operate it, then how much worse would Trent look running a real NFL offense. If he can't handle the very basics of timing patterns, comebacks, over the middle throws, and hitting a receiver in stride then he is not and NFL QB.
Paup 1995MVP Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I think you're looking at it wrong. There is not one factor that is to blame for the Bills failures.Trent is 100% responsible for his own poor play. You can say that coaching, playcalling, line play, all the other crap factor in, but I think good QB's show their skill regardless of the team/coaches around them. Yes, a QB in the right situation has the most success. My point is that Trent sucks. He is no more than a backup NFL QB. At the same time, the Bills coaches almost all suck, the front office sucks and Ralph sucks. The franchise mired in a losing culture that comes down from the top. Trent not to blame for any of that. He is responsible for not being very good (more accurately genetics or god are responsible but thats a whole other conversation). I guess I just don't like the premise of trying to place blame for the Bills current plight on any one person. There is plenty of blame to go around. But it ultimately all falls on the man who owns the team. I don't like our playcalling, but the bottom line is that Trent plays scared on every snap. He nevers goes back to pass, steps up in the pocket, and than just lets it rip with any authority. But to allow Scott and Chambers to play O tackle for our team is pathetic. That being said, NFL coaches should always be able to devise a gameplan that is tailored to what we have to work with. And our coaches absolutely can not do this. This is just a continuation of the preseason. Based on the preseason, Trent had no business starting for us. He was horrible in the preseason, and just as bad in the regular season. Our team is a joke from top to bottom, and it just makes you want to cry watching them. Do any of the players even care? How can you not be pissed losing every single year? I would really like to hear some of the players call others including coaches, management out about how bad this team is. It seems like most of them are just numb. None of them other than TO have ever won anywhere. Since the Bills have been bad this entire decade. Losing just breeds losing until the culture is changed. We have not made the playoffs since 1999. We have had one 9-7 season during that time. That seems impossible to do. Some teams are good just by accident. The scene at the Ralph next Sunday will be ugly and surreal. It should be very interesting.
thewildrabbit Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 That pass that Trent Edwards threw for the pick 6, that was just a stupid play all around. The QB should have never thrown it, but the OC should have never called it. That freaking play should be taken out of the playbook and shoved where the sun doesn't shine. The patriots run a very similar play but the WR doesn't move up at all, If the CB/ DB is giving a 10+yard cushion then Brady throws a quick out and lets the WR make the yardage to the first down. Trent Edwards looked horrid in this game, it leaves me to wonder if he is injured or slightly concussed, with all the shots that poor guy has taken this year I'm surprised he is still walking upright. Ultimately it all comes down to Jauron and the revamped offensive line, play calling, no dominate tight end or full back. TO was supposed to help open up the offense by allowing Lee Evans to be single covered, help open up the running game because the defense can't stack the box. IF the O line can't hold a block for more then 2.5 seconds, then nothing works. READ THIS-- http://www.buffalonews.com/452/story/818059.html
kota Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 I'd put it at: 50 % Trent 30 % OLine 20 % scheme This is Trent's third OC. Do they all have bad schemes? Maybe, but I haven't noticed any difference in his play form OC1 to OC2 to OC3. My theory is that Turk and now Alex have tried to open it up but Trent just won't throw it to the WRs with any consistency for whatever reason. Pathetic. We'll suck as long as we have Trent and Dick running things. My prediction: Trent will be out of the NFL next year. 3rd OC under the same HC.
nucci Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 When a team is playing this poorly there is plenty of blame to go around.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Trent has made some bad throws and poor decisions. I don't think anyone will deny that. I also think that most people here agree that Dick Jauron needs to be let go with the entire coaching staff and front office. In looking at Trent's stats this morning if found something very interesting. He has been sacked 16 times this year. He was sacked only 23 times the entire 2008 season. I realize he was injuried but 16 times in 4 games? That is some what stupid. This one stat points out a serious problem which is the OLine and the coaching staff. I see Trent Edwards trying to go down field but also something stupid happens. The pocket collapses due to poor blocking or the receiviers aren't open so he has to eat the ball or check down. I see it every game. I think the current OLine could be good if not great but the coaching staff couldn't figure out their Oline until a week before the season. Training camp was a waste for the OLINE because there wasn't any time for them to GEL or gain chemistry. The Bills training staff dropped the ball and then tried to patch it together. So you take the patchwork OLINe and mix in some rediculous play calling and you now have our wonderful season so far. The Bills lack any kind of offensive creativity. They run the toss sweep 8000 times a game and do out patterns of 10 yards or more. The Bills are not using the middle of the field at all again this season. TO isn't being put over the middle where he excels at. Steve Johnson is on the bench. I don't see any play action, pump fakes from Trent, Draw Plays or boot legs. It's all drop back and pass. I also don't understand why the Bills feel the need to want to rush the ball into the endzone when they get within the 20 yard line. They don't take any shots at the end zone to stop the Defense from playing 8 in the box. So there you have it folks. Poor Oline play and poor play calling points to one conclusion. The Bills coaching staff is terrible. I personally would like Dick Jauron to be fired tomorrow and have Bobby April become the Head Coach of the Bills. At least he shows some emotion on the sideline and appears to be creative. I think the two most responsible people for the Bills success of failure this year are Dick & Trent, and remember Dick PICKED Trent to be his QB. His evaluation of talent is about as good as his Coaching.
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