Turning the fans on the team (on purpose)?

[Got_Wood]

I can't think of another reason why Ralph would stick with this staff of bumbling idiots. Jauron and his make-shift group of coaches are down right embarrassing. The only possible reason to keep this staff in place and ride out the season is to alienate the fans of Buffalo from this team enough for us to be "OK" with a move to Toronto (or some other market). Because that is exactly what they're doing. If we despise this team and it's losing record once again, maybe just maybe this city will be fine with them being shipped out of town. If that's the case... well that's just sad.

[damj]

I can't think of another reason why Ralph would stick with this staff of bumbling idiots. Jauron and his make-shift group of coaches are down right embarrassing. The only possible reason to keep this staff in place and ride out the season is to alienate the fans of Buffalo from this team enough for us to be "OK" with a move to Toronto (or some other market). Because that is exactly what they're doing. If we despise this team and it's losing record once again, maybe just maybe this city will be fine with them being shipped out of town. If that's the case... well that's just sad.

Certainly possible ... I think that the reality is that Ralph is just so out of touch that he honestly believes that the way he's running the team can work.

[silvermike]

Ralph doesn't need the fans' assent to move the team.

[DrDawkinstein]

Certainly possible ... I think that the reality is that Ralph is just so out of touch that he honestly believes that the way he's running the team can work.

 

can work at what? i think that is the difference with how we, the fans, look at it and how Ralph looks at it.

 

if you mean, can continue to make him and his family money, then yes it can and does work

 

if you mean winning, then no. and i wouldnt be surprised if he ranked the priorities in that order too. face it, it's obvious we have an owner whose bottom line is NOT winning.

[The Senator]

I can't think of another reason why Ralph would stick with this staff of bumbling idiots. Jauron and his make-shift group of coaches are down right embarrassing. The only possible reason to keep this staff in place and ride out the season is to alienate the fans of Buffalo from this team enough for us to be "OK" with a move to Toronto (or some other market). Because that is exactly what they're doing. If we despise this team and it's losing record once again, maybe just maybe this city will be fine with them being shipped out of town. If that's the case... well that's just sad.

Oh stop it. Please, just stop it.

 

First, as has been pointed out, Ralph does not need the fans' assent to move his team. He could have done it at any point, and there were plenty of opportunities, over the 50 years he's kept the team in Buffalo - and made beaucoup bucks in the process.

 

Second, at the moment, Toronto doesn't even have a stadium available for the Bills during the NFL regular season calendar.

 

Third, Toronto can't even sell out one game, much less a full season - Ralph's gonna forgo all that TV revenue?

[All_Pro_Bills]

can work at what? i think that is the difference with how we, the fans, look at it and how Ralph looks at it.

 

if you mean, can continue to make him and his family money, then yes it can and does work

 

if you mean winning, then no. and i wouldnt be surprised if he ranked the priorities in that order too. face it, it's obvious we have an owner whose bottom line is NOT winning.

 

When losing impacts cash flow, season ticket renewals, and the value of the franchise, winning will matter.

 

But as far as fans supporting or not supporting the team we're all aware of the catch-22 here.

[Got_Wood]

Ralph doesn't need the fans' assent to move the team.

 

Makes things easier for him though.

 

Just imagine if the Bills were a public company for instance. Sales are down, investor confidence is rock bottom, the product looks terrible, your President (head coach) isn't forecasting a profitable future (wins) nor is he making moves to get the company (team) in the right direction.

 

What would a company do? They would remove the president (head coach), and bring in somone with a history of success(Shannahan/Gruden/Holmgren/Cowher). Assemble a younger more motivated staff (offensive and defensive coordinator) that have some recent industry experience (have had coordinator positions before and/or have worked with winning programs as position coaches). A new philosophy and a new direction is exactly what this company needs.

 

Guess what, they (Ralph and crew) are not doing what any ordinary company would do. They're riding this out, loss after loss. Pretty soon, there won't be any more customers left to buy this awful product.

[Got_Wood]

Oh stop it. Please, just stop it.

 

First, as has been pointed out, Ralph does not need the fans' assent to move his team. He could have done it at any point, and there were plenty of opportunities, over the 50 years he's kept the team in Buffalo - and made beaucoup bucks in the process.

 

Second, at the moment, Toronto doesn't even have a stadium available for the Bills during the NFL regular season calendar.

 

Third, Toronto can't even sell out one game, much less a full season - Ralph's gonna forgo all that TV revenue?

 

1. It's d-day. Ralph is now at the point in his life where he needs to make a decision. He's not counting years, he's counting days.

 

2. Doesn't have to be Toronto. But I believe they could make that happen. LA isn't out of the realm of possibility either.

 

3. Yes Toronto can't sell out a game. BUT, if the team becomes THEIR team and they change the uniforms and logo to THEIR city... they will support the team. Right now they're expected to cheer for an old beat up product that they can't even call their own.

[The Senator]

1. It's d-day. Ralph is now at the point in his life where he needs to make a decision. He's not counting years, he's counting days.

 

2. Doesn't have to be Toronto. But I believe they could make that happen. LA isn't out of the realm of possibility either.

 

3. Yes Toronto can't sell out a game. BUT, if the team becomes THEIR team and they change the uniforms and logo to THEIR city... they will support the team. Right now they're expected to cheer for an old beat up product that they can't even call their own.

If Ralph's counting days, what's the point? You think billion-dollar deals come together in a week or two?

 

Or are you more of the Mark Lane/David Lifton 'conspiracy-theory' types, and think RW has been secretly plotting this for years?

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

1. It's d-day. Ralph is now at the point in his life where he needs to make a decision. He's not counting years, he's counting days.

 

2. Doesn't have to be Toronto. But I believe they could make that happen. LA isn't out of the realm of possibility either.

 

3. Yes Toronto can't sell out a game. BUT, if the team becomes THEIR team and they change the uniforms and logo to THEIR city... they will support the team. Right now they're expected to cheer for an old beat up product that they can't even call their own.

 

Ralph doesn't need to move the team to make money. He can't sell the team because of tax consequences. He has to leave this world owning the team to avoid paying all the capital gain taxes since 1960 (nearly a billion dollars worth of capital gains). The best understanding would be that he wants to minimize costs to maximize yearly profits and also set up his heirs to make a bigger profit on the sale of the team based on the profitability of the team at the time of sale.

 

The truth of the matter is that RW is one of the most successful men of our times, financially, in that he started with a fairly small amount and will end up leaving his heirs a billion. Not many people have been able to do that.

 

From a football point of view RW is one of the most unsuccessful owners in sports history, owning a team for 50 years and never winning a world championship in the nearly 4 and 1/2 decades that the SB has determined the champion.

 

We, as fans, don't share in his financial success (but helped him get it), but take the brunt of the football misery part.

 

[Got_Wood]

If Ralph's counting days, what's the point? You think billion-dollar deals come together in a week or two?

 

Or are you more of the Mark Lane/David Lifton 'conspiracy-theory' types, and think RW has been secretly plotting this for years?

 

It's for his family. Not a conspiracy theorist, but I am a realist.

[SDS]

It's for his family. Not a conspiracy theorist, but I am a realist.

 

http://www.freeinquiry.com/critical-thinking.html

 

If you take an accredited course, send TBD the bill.

[BMWR100RT]

Isn't that the script from "Slapshot"?

[WVUFootball29]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if the team is sold to a new owner, the new owner has to pay the league another sum of money that I've heard ranging from 500 mil to 1billion just to move a team. the Bills are worth just shy of 800 million, so who is going to spend nearly double that to move a team when the team already has a successful fan base?

[IndyJay1234]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if the team is sold to a new owner, the new owner has to pay the league another sum of money that I've heard ranging from 500 mil to 1billion just to move a team. the Bills are worth just shy of 800 million, so who is going to spend nearly double that to move a team when the team already has a successful fan base?

 

 

This is probably going to piss a lot of people off but... Yes we have a successful fan base but not at standard NFL prices. I read a post today of someone that pays 400 for season tickets. I was stunned. I am a season ticket holder for the Colts. I have not great not bad seats and pay 1100 a year for them. I have friends that have pretty good seats that pay 250 a ticket.. 2500 a year per seat. Not to mention the number of suites are ridiculous..

 

So moving a team in the long run may make more sense if you can find a viable market. I dont claim to know where that market is or even that the Bills would move. I just think that a team can make a whole lot more money in a different city.

 

And... Until the fans stop selling out every single game what is Ralphs motivation to do anything differently? Every year it is the same load of crap. And every year fans buy it. We dont have the right players, the right coaching staff, the right front office.... How do you expect us to make the playoffs? The only coach worth a damn to take a position with the Bills would need TOTAl control. You think Cowher, Gruden or any other proven coach is going to come here without having total control? And Ralph wont ever give that grip up again.

[Realist]

Wilson isn't holding on to the coaching staff to get the fans pi$$ed, that's just stupid. He's keeping the staff in place because he just renewed Jauron's contract last year and will not pay DJ while he sits at home eating Cheetoh's on Sunday afternoons watching football.

 

Wilson would rather pay Jauron while he stands in Ralph Wilson stadium, eating Cheetoh's and doing nothing.

[starrymessenger]

Oh stop it. Please, just stop it.

 

First, as has been pointed out, Ralph does not need the fans' assent to move his team. He could have done it at any point, and there were plenty of opportunities, over the 50 years he's kept the team in Buffalo - and made beaucoup bucks in the process.

 

Second, at the moment, Toronto doesn't even have a stadium available for the Bills during the NFL regular season calendar.

 

Third, Toronto can't even sell out one game, much less a full season - Ralph's gonna forgo all that TV revenue?

 

I live in Toronto and want no part of the Bills there. The Bills in Buffalo are an original historic franchise that is part of and belongs in WNY. Even when they lose or play badly, the individual stories, the reactions of commentators in and outside Buffalo, the situation of the team, prospects for the future, the players, the coaching staff and the FO always remain interesting, even fascinating. Granted its a lot more fun if you can also win. Losing a team though is much worse than losing a game or writing off a season. Lets hope that never happens. The Bills are an important presence for Buffalo on the national stage. Someday they will reward their very deserving fans.

[Gordio]

Ralph doesn't need to move the team to make money. He can't sell the team because of tax consequences. He has to leave this world owning the team to avoid paying all the capital gain taxes since 1960 (nearly a billion dollars worth of capital gains). The best understanding would be that he wants to minimize costs to maximize yearly profits and also set up his heirs to make a bigger profit on the sale of the team based on the profitability of the team at the time of sale.

 

The truth of the matter is that RW is one of the most successful men of our times, financially, in that he started with a fairly small amount and will end up leaving his heirs a billion. Not many people have been able to do that.

 

From a football point of view RW is one of the most unsuccessful owners in sports history, owning a team for 50 years and never winning a world championship in the nearly 4 and 1/2 decades that the SB has determined the champion.

 

We, as fans, don't share in his financial success (but helped him get it), but take the brunt of the football misery part.

 

:lol:

 

 

Just wait till Manning retires. That place with those prices will be 1/2 empty just like Jacksonville. I stand by the same statement for New England, when Brady is done. It is not easy replacing a franchise qb & any qb that comes in is in a no win situation. I am not saying the price of going to a bills game is not cheap, because it is, relatively speaking(where still only about $9 off per game from the league average, but just wait til manning retires because colt fans have been spoiled rotten watching that guy play for 10yrs now & sometimes you just do not appreciate what you got until it is gone.