PDaDdy Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I'll say it too. A good WR--even on a ****ty team like the Bills--makes the 3rd down conversion. Who does that on the Bills? Evans? No. Reed. Who blocks downfield? Evans? No. Reed. Evans with Losman was good for catching 1 out of 6 of Losman's desperation heaves and thus made a good highlight reel. Besides that, his catches are often garbage time catches--I don't recall many games where he had a bunch of clutch performances. He's a good #2. That's it. Come on man. How many WRs can catch the ball if it's NOT thrown to them???? Tell me that! Why does Reed catch 3rd down conversions??? Because Edwards throws him the ball on 3rd down. END OF STORY!!!! All Lee has done is average pretty much 1000yds a season since he has been a full time starter!! So has TO. BUT YOU, oh great pundit of football, think the problem is the WR. Please stop embarrassing yourself! Your numbers are WAY off on how many Losman "heaves" he and Lee hooked up on. I get it. You hate Losman but don't lose your objectivity. JP could hit Lee deep [PERIOD] They did it well. If you were the fan that many of us are you would see that those were legit TDs often in the thick of a game if not game winners. Not garbage time as you erroneously allege! Man you guys are desperate to somehow drag JP back into the conversation using the Evans as a bridge. Trent sucks ALL ON HIS OWN!!! Don't be the last one swingin' from Trent's you know whats!!! Lee Evans sucks, TO sucks, blah blah blah. Admit a HUGE part of the problem is Trent!!! Did you even watch the game yesterday?
Bmwolf21 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 How many WRs can catch the ball if it's NOT thrown to them???? Tell me that! Why does Reed catch 3rd down conversions??? Because Edwards throws him the ball on 3rd down. I liked ESPN's breakdown of Captain Checkdown's inability or refusal to throw downfield, so I'm hoping they can do a breakdown of how many times Trent has thrown to Reed, Evans, Owens and then to the backs and TE's. Heck, I'd settle for a positional breakdown, so we can see how many times he dumps off to RB's or TE's. My gut says that the numbers will bear out what we all see with the naked eye, but I'd like to see it in black&white.
34-78-83 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Who blocks downfield? Evans? No. Reed. You might want to check your eyes. Evans has been blocking downfield consistently well
PDaDdy Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I liked ESPN's breakdown of Captain Checkdown's inability or refusal to throw downfield, so I'm hoping they can do a breakdown of how many times Trent has thrown to Reed, Evans, Owens and then to the backs and TE's. Heck, I'd settle for a positional breakdown, so we can see how many times he dumps off to RB's or TE's. My gut says that the numbers will bear out what we all see with the naked eye, but I'd like to see it in black&white. The stats have been put out there. The number of passes to RBs and TEs BLOWS AWAY how many times he throws to WRs. In a Tim Graham thread there were stats regarding Trent only attempting 8 passes beyond a measly 20 yards. Hit only hit on 2 out of the 8 by the way!!!!
Cornerville Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 It's going to be tough to evaluate Trent fairly with those two OTs in the game. Trent SUCKS. Let it go.
John Adams Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 You might want to check your eyes. Evans has been blocking downfield consistently well !
Bill from NYC Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 Really not sure what to make of that statistic. All good WR compile statistics. Am I missing something hear? Are you really trying to say that Lee Evans isn't that good because all he does is make catches and rack up yards? Seriously? Lee Evans is good. I mean this....he is good. Yesterday, hs yards per reception were very good. His contract was very good, and his draft slot (#13) was very good, even better than that of Vince Wilfork. R.Rich was on this board every day screaming for the Bills to draft Wilfork but I digress. Evans is something of a one trick pony. He runs deep routes and gets open at times. He is NOT an elite receiver, although his was drafted as one and is paid as one. Compared to the really good wideouts, Evans comes up short. Not quite a gadget player like Parrish or possibly McKelvin, but a one trick pony nonetheless. Let me know the next time you see him fight for a ball over the middle.
bills44 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Jay throws a pick and he shakes it off and starts slinging again. Trent throws a pick, runs to the sideline, pops in My Chemical Romance on his iPod and has a good cry.
bills44 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 I don't mean to be a jerk but are you just starting to "RE-EVALUATE" your assessment today? WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG? Assessing the play at any position should be a WEEKLY occurrence. It is NEVER a good idea to blindly support anyone or anything without question for any length of time. Doing so in the face of the poor performances demonstrated over the last two seasons is folly!!! In his defense, he did admit that he was not objective....
Dan Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Lee Evans is good. I mean this....he is good. Yesterday, hs yards per reception were very good. His contract was very good, and his draft slot (#13) was very good, even better than that of Vince Wilfork. R.Rich was on this board every day screaming for the Bills to draft Wilfork but I digress. Evans is something of a one trick pony. He runs deep routes and gets open at times. He is NOT an elite receiver, although his was drafted as one and is paid as one. Compared to the really good wideouts, Evans comes up short. Not quite a gadget player like Parrish or possibly McKelvin, but a one trick pony nonetheless. Let me know the next time you see him fight for a ball over the middle. It's amazing what a substandard QB can do for a WR. Look no further than Cutler. Last year Eddie Royal comes out of no where and has a great year with Cutler as his QB. This year with Orton, he's got 8 catches for 58 yards (7.3 avg) and zero TDs. Transition to Chicago, with Cutler, another unheard of rookie (Johnny Knox) is the all the rage with 14 catches for 190 yards (13.6 avg) and 2 TDs. So is it a coincidence or is it having a good QB? So before we all rag on Evans, let's first ask the very basic question, does he have an NFL caliber QB throwing to him? Taking the good with the bad, I think we all have to conclude that the book is still very much out on Edwards. He may be good one day, but I find it hard to believe anyone can call him good now. Perhaps its all the O-line. I could see that. But, with regards to Evans, it doesn't change the argument. He has a QB throwing the ball to him that looks scared at best. Fix the QB (either with a new Oline with a new player) and perhaps then we can discuss what the WRs are doing.
Heels20X6 Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 In his defense, he did admit that he was not objective.... The problem with a majority of the Trent "fans" on this board was they became obsessed with having to prove how great Trent was. The reality was these same Trent fans were very much against JP Losman and wanted to prove the JP supporters how silly they were in backing him up all these years. To make sure that they never faltered in questioning JP's ability, they made sure to feverishly defend Trent against anyone who dared question his abilities. Sadly, there were a handful of us who believe NEITHER QB was going to be the long term answer. Especially after Trent starting sucking it up down the stretch last year.
Orton's Arm Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Based on ability, Lee is absolutely one of the best wideouts in the game. In the best case, he is capable of having a Marvin Harrison type of career. Problem is that he does not have Peyton Manning throwing him the ball. The fact that he (and TO) look average is the most telling indictment of this offence (and the same goes for Fred and Marshawn). Calling Evans one of the best wideouts in the game is going way too far for my taste. Evans is not capable of having a Marvin Harrison-type career--or anything even close--unless he significantly improves the quality of his play. Yes, occasionally he'll burn someone deep, especially in one-on-one coverage. Losman was at his best when throwing long bombs to Evans; which would often result in one or two big plays a game. But Evans is one-dimensional. He's short, which means you can't throw him jump balls the way you could with a Randy Moss. Maybe that's the reason why Evans disappears when the Bills are in the red zone. Unlike other short receivers--for example, Steve Smith of the Carolina Panthers--Evans isn't particularly good at using good routes and quickness to get open on intermediate routes. I view Evans as a #2, in the speed/deep threat, Alvin Harper/Peerless Price mold. Yes, Evans is a better player than either of those two. But he's a better variant of their same basic theme. Our offense needs a true #1 WR. In addition, of course, to all its other needs.
Bill from NYC Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 funny thing is, the boat for losman sailed a long time ago. i admitted that he wasn't the answer. however, i wasn't blinded by (presumably) a man-crush on trent edwards to realize that he isn't a great quarterback. I defy you to find one post of mine in which I categorized Trent as "great." I likened him to Hasselback. Is that what you are talking about? There, I confessed. Tell us who and what you likened JP to, won't you?
spartacus Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 You're exactly right. Same thing I was thinking during the game when Wake was continually beating Chambers play after play after play. Removing him would have been one thing, but how about at least putting a tight end or running back on his side for extra help in protection?!?!? Is that such a novel idea? Obviously it is for Jauron and Co., because he didn't even take that measure. Much less pulling Chambers' sorry ass out of the ball game. with as little as Chambers was moving his feet, it looked to me like he has some serious injury. this would be par for the course for the Bills to go in to the season with only 7 OL and 3 of them already had serious injuries.
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 It's amazing what a substandard QB can do for a WR. Look no further than Cutler. Last year Eddie Royal comes out of no where and has a great year with Cutler as his QB. This year with Orton, he's got 8 catches for 58 yards (7.3 avg) and zero TDs. Transition to Chicago, with Cutler, another unheard of rookie (Johnny Knox) is the all the rage with 14 catches for 190 yards (13.6 avg) and 2 TDs. So is it a coincidence or is it having a good QB? So before we all rag on Evans, let's first ask the very basic question, does he have an NFL caliber QB throwing to him? Taking the good with the bad, I think we all have to conclude that the book is still very much out on Edwards. He may be good one day, but I find it hard to believe anyone can call him good now. Perhaps its all the O-line. I could see that. But, with regards to Evans, it doesn't change the argument. He has a QB throwing the ball to him that looks scared at best. Fix the QB (either with a new Oline with a new player) and perhaps then we can discuss what the WRs are doing. The book is starting to close for me. Trent had to emerge as the true leader of this team this year. This team blows in terms of leadership, and it is almost palpable. Good teams have passionate leaders that can make everyone around them better. Trent has displayed all the leadership and enthusiasm of one of the lemmings in the middle of the column running over a cliff. Football comes down to things like blocking and tackling. And, the Bills have assembled a cast of players that are slow, weak, blow blocking assignments, and pull out on tackles, amongst other problems mentioned across this board. This is a bad team getting worse. It wouldn't be surprising to see Browns fans pleasantly surprised a week from now.
spartacus Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Bill I wasn't sure you were going to post yesterday because I didn't see it but keep it coming each week. The comment about Lee Evans suprised me a little. Do you really think he is not getting separation from the corner playing him or is it the fact that teams are double teaming him? the "double team"excuse is pure horse-hockey another excuse for a team famous for them there are probably not more than 5 times the entire game where any WR is covered by 2 separate players for his entire route. Almost all "double" coverage is short / deep with safety help over the top. Routes that are less than 15 yards never reach teh deep safety so the "double" coverage never kicks in. In addition, many of the teams we face play zone where DBs only cover an area of the field. NFL caliber WRs and coordinators know where to exploit the seams in the zone. This is where the 2 DBs applying the "double" coverage hand off the coverage and allows a window where the WR is basically covered by no-one.
Dibs Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 This is from Peter King's column today: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...ek.4/index.html The Giants are one of the best teams in football because they get how important it is to invest in building depth on the line, rather than on a flashy wide receiver. They weren't derailed by injuries to key players. In regards to depth on the lines....try as we might(and they certainly have tried), we have been unable to acquire starter caliber players let alone decent backups as well. This comes back IMO to talent evaluation......and/or coaching.
DCBongo Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 DJ at the press conference after them game backs up your psych patient theory
Bmwolf21 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 The stats have been put out there. The number of passes to RBs and TEs BLOWS AWAY how many times he throws to WRs. In a Tim Graham thread there were stats regarding Trent only attempting 8 passes beyond a measly 20 yards. Hit only hit on 2 out of the 8 by the way!!!! I saw the Tim Graham thread and breakdown of TE's passes by yardage, but I've never seen a breakdown of how many times he's thrown at individual players. If you have a link I'd appreciate it.
reddogblitz Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 Especially after Trent starting sucking it up down the stretch last year. I was concerned when Trent started sucking it down the stretch 2 years ago. Anyone remember the Jets and Giants games?
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