LANCE ARMSTRONG AND I DESPERATELY NEED YOUR HELP!!!

[Chef Jim]

I never intend to.

 

Such a caring individual.

[Simon]

No ****, we'd be demanding money from you.

 

And I'd happily pay it if it got him to shut the hell up.

[Magox]

Tell that to the 40+ countries who do use that as their solution.

Oh please, tell me how great the other "40 + countries" are.

[stevestojan]

How's that vote going?

[drnykterstein]

Do you know what a health care provider is?

 

You never responded to my first post. Thursday is fast approaching.

[kegtapr]

Yes they can. If you come in with what "they call" a pre existing condition they'll refuse to pay. Anything to do with my cancer, stroke, thyroid condition or seizure disorder would be considered a "pre-existing" condition and they would refuse to pay. As soon as I go over the line in income that makes me eligible for public assistance I'm shooting myself in the foot, but hey if I work hard I can still make it.

 

 

They can only deny a pre-x if your new policy has a pre-x clause and you have a lapse in coverage of more than 63 days.

 

COBRA is only valid for 6 months if you buy it.

 

Wrong. COBRA is 18 months, up to 36 months extended. You have 60 days to enroll from notification.

 

May want to start getting your facts straight before trying to make points.

[KRC]

May want to start getting your facts straight before trying to make points.

 

That would be a first for him.

[VABills]

No insurance company is going to cover someone under an individual plan for a pre-existing condition, nor should they. they are in it to make money. if you are rich (read middle class or higher) enough and you've gone without coverage, too bad, and you're going to pay out of pocket, and you should for being stupid. if you're poor, you're already covered under medicaid. If you're here illegally, go back to your great country that you came from and ask for medical help, stop coming here and over-taxing our system, especially since the US has crappy health coverage according to you.

[John Adams]

Bull . That is an absolutely false statement.

 

OK. Tell that to the next surgeon you meet who's coming off a 80 hour a workweek. Oops. Let me fix that. Tell that to the next surgeon you meet since they almost all work 80 hour workweeks. Or even the family doctor who's working on Saturday. Or the resident coming off her 36th straight hour.

 

Clearly, they have nothing but more time to give. Doctors are such a lazy bunch.

[John Adams]

I used highlighted letters to emphasize the point and I bumped the thread to keep it on the front page of the thread list. If that's a bad thing then I'm bad I guess.

 

Not bad. Just childish.

 

I'm consulting a psychic and she tells me your next post to me is going to say;

 

Where did I ever say the poor should die?

 

and I'll quote this in the next thread.

 

So you are left with some people being left out of the system. Those people are the ones without $$. That is the best system we've got.

 

and then you'll deny that's what you meant but won't really be able to offer up a reasonable explanation.

 

Good job trying to put words in my mouth. Let me make you happy. I AM saying exactly what you say. Poor people get worse medical care. That is a cold hard fact. They get worse housing. They get worse cars. They get worse ... etc. Healthcare is one of the stops on the road of those conclusions and guess what: for these and many other reasons, poor people are more likely to die sooner than wealthier ones.

 

They don't get NO healthcare--they just don't get great healthcare. A poor person can walk into an ER anywhere and get treatment and not pay their bill. That happens every day in America and trust me: It doesn't happen every day in most countries.

 

By the way, the way it works here, since you love this phrasing, "the poor may die" for lack of healthcare. The way it works in Canada and other socialized systems: the government decides who doesn't merit help and thus decides who dies (or people get put in the back of the line for treatment and die in the queue).

 

Given the choice, I choose the former system and not the later. You trust the government and not yourself. Sign Lance's petition. I won't.

 

And again, I refer you to the many good ideas floating about that are not socialized medicine.

[plenzmd1]

They can only deny a pre-x if your new policy has a pre-x clause and you have a lapse in coverage of more than 63 days.

 

 

 

Wrong. COBRA is 18 months, up to 36 months extended. You have 60 days to enroll from notification.

 

May want to start getting your facts straight before trying to make points.

Thank you for that. Also, Steely, I really got to questiom these statements. I know this is off topic, but my God man look at these statements

 

How many millionaires consider themselves Christians when Christ tells them that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven

 

As soon as I go over the line in income that makes me eligible for public assistance I'm shooting myself in the foot, but hey if I work hard I can still make it.

 

Are you really saying that someone who works hard, provides for his family, lives according to what you say are "Christ" like values, has no chance of getting into heaven? Cause I am assuming, and I may be wrong here, that people in many third nations would consider you very rich by their standards. Are you also saying that someone who puts forth no effort what so ever to better their lot in life(at least here on earth) is a better candidate for heaven than someone whoi works hard and helps out the greater community in numerous ways by providing jobs, donataing time and money to variuos causes etc??

 

In closing, let me say that I was sorry to see in this thread of your cancer. Cancer blows, and I I wish we could eradicate the mofo for ever. I do believe however the profit motive for pharma etc has helped in our fight agaisn't this dreaded disease. Is it perfect no, just like the insurance thing is not perfect.

[Chef Jim]

Hey Chef... you are all "work hard and take care of yourself" right? Lets say next week some time, Thursday perhaps, so on Thursday of next week you (Chef Jim) get a to work in the morning and receive a pink slip. That sucks. Then lets say at about 3:00 in the afternoon your doctor calls you and says you have cancer.

 

... would you be emotional?

 

Sorry I missed these questions. Ok let me answer them. Question one. First off I won't be getting a pink slip seeing I run my regional center here but let's just assume I do. Next day I get cancer. Do I get emotional? Sure I got !@#$ing cancer. But quess what if I get cancer and no pink slip at some point I'll probably not be able to work and lose my insurance anyway. But I'd have access to several hundred thousand dollars tax free from my life policy that I had the forethought to get to take care of me and my family. Sure helps with the emotions and suckability of the situation. Nice try kiddo.

 

Oh and BTW that's a reason why I said the system needs to change so our health insurance is not tied our employment. Did you miss that part?

[Magox]

OK. Tell that to the next surgeon you meet who's coming off a 80 hour a workweek. Oops. Let me fix that. Tell that to the next surgeon you meet since they almost all work 80 hour workweeks. Or even the family doctor who's working on Saturday. Or the resident coming off her 36th straight hour.

 

Clearly, they have nothing but more time to give. Doctors are such a lazy bunch.

Logic vs. Emotion =

[Steely Dan]

They can only deny a pre-x if your new policy has a pre-x clause and you have a lapse in coverage of more than 63 days.

 

 

 

Wrong. COBRA is 18 months, up to 36 months extended. You have 60 days to enroll from notification.

 

May want to start getting your facts straight before trying to make points.

 

How many times have you used COBRA? I did last year and after 6 months I was no longer allowed to buy in. So why don't you take the facts from somebody who's used it instead of other sources?

 

OK. Tell that to the next surgeon you meet who's coming off a 80 hour a workweek. Oops. Let me fix that. Tell that to the next surgeon you meet since they almost all work 80 hour workweeks. Or even the family doctor who's working on Saturday. Or the resident coming off her 36th straight hour.

 

Clearly, they have nothing but more time to give. Doctors are such a lazy bunch.

 

Dude, I worked in an O.R. area for two years. Believe me the surgeons, at Strong, are not overworked. They come in at 6am and are gone by 3pm. The weekend surgeries are only done for emergency cases. The surgery residents do a lot of time but not nearly as much as anesthesia residents. The anesthesia residents get abused and fall under your 80 hour work week. Once they become full doctors they don't work 80 hours a week anymore. I've seen it!!

 

 

Not bad. Just childish.

 

 

 

Good job trying to put words in my mouth. Let me make you happy. I AM saying exactly what you say. Poor people get worse medical care. That is a cold hard fact. They get worse housing. They get worse cars. They get worse ... etc. Healthcare is one of the stops on the road of those conclusions and guess what: for these and many other reasons, poor people are more likely to die sooner than wealthier ones.

 

They don't get NO healthcare--they just don't get great healthcare. A poor person can walk into an ER anywhere and get treatment and not pay their bill. That happens every day in America and trust me: It doesn't happen every day in most countries.

 

By the way, the way it works here, since you love this phrasing, "the poor may die" for lack of healthcare. The way it works in Canada and other socialized systems: the government decides who doesn't merit help and thus decides who dies (or people get put in the back of the line for treatment and die in the queue).

 

Given the choice, I choose the former system and not the later. You trust the government and not yourself. Sign Lance's petition. I won't.

 

And again, I refer you to the many good ideas floating about that are not socialized medicine.

 

* So it's too bad for the poor.

 

** It doesn't happen in most countries because most countries have socialized medicine. Anyone who walks in doesn't have a bill or has a very low one.

 

*** Link?

 

 

Thank you for that. Also, Steely, I really got to questiom these statements. I know this is off topic, but my God man look at these statements

 

 

 

 

 

Are you really saying that someone who works hard, provides for his family, lives according to what you say are "Christ" like values, has no chance of getting into heaven? Cause I am assuming, and I may be wrong here, that people in many third nations would consider you very rich by their standards. Are you also saying that someone who puts forth no effort what so ever to better their lot in life(at least here on earth) is a better candidate for heaven than someone whoi works hard and helps out the greater community in numerous ways by providing jobs, donataing time and money to variuos causes etc??

 

In closing, let me say that I was sorry to see in this thread of your cancer. Cancer blows, and I I wish we could eradicate the mofo for ever. I do believe however the profit motive for pharma etc has helped in our fight agaisn't this dreaded disease. Is it perfect no, just like the insurance thing is not perfect.

 

Thanks for your concern and I hope that explains my passionate feelings on this subject.

 

I didn't say anything; Jesus said it all. It is for you to interpret in your own relationship with God. Here are my interpretations.

 

Matthew 19:24 (New International Version)

 

24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

 

My interpretation of that is that a rich man, who IMO, is rich by any world standard, who accumulates more money than is necessary for their basic needs is not a Christian. Now the debate begins on what are basic needs and how far above them can someone go? Is a house worth $500,000 (by western New York standards) beyond a basic need? Is a private school education a basic need and so on. I'm not saying that those things definitely are. I'm just saying there will be people on either side of those debates.

 

James 1:27

 

7Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

My interpretation of that flies in the face of all the people who accept the system the way it is and are fighting against a plan to cover everybody.

 

Luke 16:13 and 14

13"No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money."

 

14The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus. 15He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

 

My interpretation of that is that anyone who works hard so they can buy a luxury item while doing it at the expense of their family is not serving God but is serving money. Anyone who puts money over helping people is detestable in God's eyes. I.E. complaining about the tax structure and fighting against social programs.

 

Timothy 1:3

 

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

I think that people, in business or political dealings who lie in order to gain financial advantage, cause too many problems that result in feelings that then result in a total ignorance of God's teachings. Which is a bad thing.

 

The problem here is that this is exactly how most business' in our nation conduct business between each other.

 

Now comes a debate about who is responsible for this tactic in each company. Is it the guy who calls a vendor and says he has an offer that is lower than their bid when in fact he has no such bid or is it his boss who leans on him to get a greater advantage in that deal?

[BuffaloBill]

Hey Chef... you are all "work hard and take care of yourself" right? Lets say next week some time, Thursday perhaps, so on Thursday of next week you (Chef Jim) get a to work in the morning and receive a pink slip. That sucks. Then lets say at about 3:00 in the afternoon your doctor calls you and says you have cancer.

 

... would you be emotional?

 

COBRA would be his friend

[Magox]

How many times have you used COBRA? I did last year and after 6 months I was no longer allowed to buy in. So why don't you take the facts from somebody who's used it instead of other sources?

I don't care that scientists say that the world is round, I've walked the earth on 4 different continents, and I can tell you that it is flat. Take it from somebody that did it.

[kegtapr]

How many times have you used COBRA? I did last year and after 6 months I was no longer allowed to buy in. So why don't you take the facts from somebody who's used it instead of other sources?

 

 

Did your ex-employer go out of business? Did they become exclusive with another health plan (which you would have been able to go to as well?) I work in the industry, I know the regulations you schmuck. I've worked with them every day for the past 6 years. What reason were you given? COBRA does NOT (ohhhh looky...I can do it too!) expire after 6 months.

[KD in CA]

How many times have you used COBRA? I did last year and after 6 months I was no longer allowed to buy in. So why don't you take the facts from somebody who's used it instead of other sources?

 

Federal law entitles you to 18 months on COBRA. Effective with the ARRA, it's up to 36.

[John Adams]

Dude, I worked in an O.R. area for two years. Believe me the surgeons, at Strong, are not overworked. They come in at 6am and are gone by 3pm. The weekend surgeries are only done for emergency cases. The surgery residents do a lot of time but not nearly as much as anesthesia residents. The anesthesia residents get abused and fall under your 80 hour work week. Once they become full doctors they don't work 80 hours a week anymore. I've seen it!!

 

OR surgeons notoriously have the BEST lifestyle of all surgeons so of course you bring them up. Again showing off your limited knowledge of the subject at hand. And by the way--some defense...in it you admit that many doctors are worked to the bone as it is? That works for...umm...well it works against your entire premise.

 

 

*** Link?

 

Try Google sometime. Here's the first one I found that was from a Canadian doctor. Sorry I could only find you a first hand account from someone within the system you desire.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451570546396929.html

 

Just a snippet from the article.

 

 

 

The problems were brought home when a relative had difficulty walking. He was in chronic pain. His doctor suggested a referral to a neurologist; an MRI would need to be done, then possibly a referral to another specialist. The wait would have stretched to roughly a year. If surgery was needed, the wait would be months more. Not wanting to stay confined to his house, he had the surgery done in the U.S., at the Mayo Clinic, and paid for it himself.

 

Such stories are common. For example, Sylvia de Vries, an Ontario woman, had a 40-pound fluid-filled tumor removed from her abdomen by an American surgeon in 2006. Her Michigan doctor estimated that she was within weeks of dying, but she was still on a wait list for a Canadian specialist.

 

 

I can't even quote the last rambling bits of your post because they don't resemble anything sensible. It seems like you're indicting a strawman: Some selfish business that doesn't care about its employees. As usual, you're only dead wrong. I know almost no business owner or business that isn't cutting tons off the bottom line these days to protect its employees jobs and health benefits through this recession. You're naive to think otherwise.

 

In my own business, the only layoffs we made as our business bucked in the last year were those we would have otherwise made because we didn't want to send unemployed people out into this marketplace. Profit is way down. I went without pay for several months. And whatever. It's what more than less businesses have tried to do over the last year.

 

Do you resort to quoting the magic man when reason fails you?

[Acantha]

I didn't say anything; Jesus said it all. It is for you to interpret in your own relationship with God. Here are my interpretations.

 

Matthew 19:24 (New International Version)

James 1:27

Luke 16:13 and 14

Timothy 1:3

So actually Matthew, James, Luke, and Timothy said it all.