HurlyBurly51 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 I could have thought the Bills drafted 2 OLs in the first 2 rounds, but i guess i was dreaming. Let's not bunch all OL into one group. They drafted 0 OT's in the first 2 rounds, but rather 2 interior guys, when they already had at least two viable interior starters. Their offseason strategy of swapping Walker and moving Butler outside was flawed from the get go, and we're seeing the effects of that. Someone needs to be fired over that.
billsfan89 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 I personally thought they should have taken Oher by trading up from 28 to 22ish and still taking maybin at 11. Than instead of taking Byrd at 42 we take Wood (Or another top lineman like Loadholt or Unger) than still trade up for Levitre. Than we have 2 lineman on the interior and the LT as well as a pass rusher to help the defense out in Maybin. HOWEVER I like what Bell has to offer and we did take Wood and Levitre to help out the O-line. Also they did pick up Hangartner at center in free agency who has shown to be solid. Yet the O-line has preformed better than expected. They have run blocked very well and they have provided a solid pocket for Trent when not in obvious passing situations. While the O-Line has played well and they are going to struggle at times (Like they struggle to protect in obvious passing situations). Yet the early beta for what this O-line might be is promising because they run block well and have shown the ability to pass block. They will only get better as the year goes on. Bell and Co will cut down with the penalties and they will be able to protect Trent better in obvious passing situations. So don't worry so far the O-Line's play has justified their drafting (Byrd becomes more important with the injuries and Maybin can make an impact later on). If this line can play 16 games (Bell, Levitre, Hangartener, and Wood) with each other and show improvement than heading into next year the O-line will be a strength.
thebandit27 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 This is my original point. As of today I would have loved to get Oher and pair him with Walker. Add them to the three very tough and talented guys in the middle and we could legitiamtely thought about the playoffs. They had a chance to get it right this year, they were close but even Jouron admits they made a mistake with their tackles. I still think Maybin is another project, a tweener that needs to grow and learn counter moves or he's a wasted pick. OBD makes a living out of blowing first round picks. I like the guards and DB's in this years draft, but I'm very skeptical regarding Maybin. I will throw out a political reference out if I think it fits. Maybe you thought cash for clunkers was going to save the earth too! I'll delay my opinion on the rookies (Oher and Maybin); as I've said, evaluating them after 3 games is an exercise in futility. But Langston Walker? The guy that nobody in the entire league has signed despite the fact that at least 12 teams have had injury problems at tackle (Buf, NE, Cin, Ind, KC, Oak, St. L, Sea, GB, NO, Phi, NYG)? This is the guy that is the key component of your plan for making the playoffs? You've got to be joking, right? And honestly, go ahead and throw out your ill-tempered passive-agressive political quips, I'm just telling you that (1) they make you sound stupid, and (2) they make you sound like you're looking for trouble. If #1 is the case, then I suppose I understand. If it's #2, take your overly-presumptuous disposition over to the PPP board and have a day...although I will say that the cash for clunkers incentive allowed me to fully pay for a nice, brand-new vehicle in cash, so I can't really complain.
thebandit27 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Let's not bunch all OL into one group. They drafted 0 OT's in the first 2 rounds, but rather 2 interior guys, when they already had at least two viable interior starters. Their offseason strategy of swapping Walker and moving Butler outside was flawed from the get go, and we're seeing the effects of that. Someone needs to be fired over that. You continue to make the same mistake as the OP. The FO obviously felt like they'd be okay at tackle with Butler, Walker, and Bell. They didn't anticipate Walker's play being so abysmal (admittedly, neither did a lot of us) and there's no way they could've expected both Bell and Butler to be injured by week 4. They also obviously realized that the OL needed to get better, so they brought in a center and drafted guys that appear to be 2 very good guards. And you want them fired over it! I'm not here to defend the FO, but c'mon man, be reasonable. If they didn't draft a DE early, we'd all be sitting here whining about how they did nothing to fix the pass rush. They clearly wanted to be competitive this season, which meant they had to go with players that they already had at at least one position between OT, OG, and DE. Clearly, they felt that their talent level at OT was the most passable of those positions, and I can understand why. Hind-sight may be 20/20, but I don't really see how their strategy was flawed from the get go. Butler played well at tackle and nobody's even sniffed at Walker since he's been released. I just can't see eye-to-eye with your point.
bills in va Posted October 2, 2009 Author Posted October 2, 2009 You continue to make the same mistake as the OP. The FO obviously felt like they'd be okay at tackle with Butler, Walker, and Bell. They didn't anticipate Walker's play being so abysmal (admittedly, neither did a lot of us) and there's no way they could've expected both Bell and Butler to be injured by week 4. They also obviously realized that the OL needed to get better, so they brought in a center and drafted guys that appear to be 2 very good guards. And you want them fired over it! I'm not here to defend the FO, but c'mon man, be reasonable. If they didn't draft a DE early, we'd all be sitting here whining about how they did nothing to fix the pass rush. They clearly wanted to be competitive this season, which meant they had to go with players that they already had at at least one position between OT, OG, and DE. Clearly, they felt that their talent level at OT was the most passable of those positions, and I can understand why. Hind-sight may be 20/20, but I don't really see how their strategy was flawed from the get go. Butler played well at tackle and nobody's even sniffed at Walker since he's been released. I just can't see eye-to-eye with your point. You may very well be right, just my opinion and i could be wrong about Maybin. But wouldn't Oher look good in our line up this week. Nobody can possibly think that having Maybin on the bench is better than Maybin at left tackle? As far as Walker goes nobody seems to know what happened to him and why he's still at home. I would love to have him and Oher for the rest of the sealon. Schobel has played well enough so far to make Maybin a luxury we couldn't afford.
Max997 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 I could have thought the Bills drafted 2 OLs in the first 2 rounds, but i guess i was dreaming. the point is they passed on the one o-lineman they should have drafted at a position then desperately needed one at
bills in va Posted October 2, 2009 Author Posted October 2, 2009 the point is they passed on the one o-lineman they should have drafted at a position then desperately needed one at You're right on. Their fateful decision to not draft a tackle this year has come back to bite them on their a__ __! They thought moving Walker was the answer. Now they have No tackles this week. People can argue with me all day on this but OBD/Jauron really messed up on this one and somebody should pay with their job!
HurlyBurly51 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 The FO obviously felt like they'd be okay at tackle with Butler, Walker, and Bell. They didn't anticipate Walker's play being so abysmal (admittedly, neither did a lot of us) and there's no way they could've expected both Bell and Butler to be injured by week 4. And you want them fired over it! I just can't see eye-to-eye with your point. Quoted for brevity. The first point is why someone should be fired. The offseason plan for the OL was flawed and incompetent. And yes, someone deserves to be fired over it. Flipping Walker to LT was an obviously flawed plan, and most observers knew he was ill suited for it. Only the rose colored wearing fans didn't foresee his abysmal performance on the left side. Then they release him for it. They already had 2 viable starters on the interior in Hangartner and Butler. But they were so smart they decided to move Butler out to RT. So instead of keeping Butler and Walker where they were and were best suited, they have a failure waiting to happen at LT, an experiment at RT, and now 2 holes to fill on the interior. That's 4 question marks (5 if you include Hangartner), wheras you would've only had 2 (or 3). Dumb. Meanwhile, they could've just drafted a better tackle and one interior guy. Smacks of someone covering their tracks for botching the Peters deal.
Whites Bay Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 You're right on. Their fateful decision to not draft a tackle this year has come back to bite them on their a__ __!They thought moving Walker was the answer. Now they have No tackles this week. People can argue with me all day on this but OBD/Jauron really messed up on this one and somebody should pay with their job! How 'bout you? Go away.
BillsVet Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 For all the Oher lovers, there was a guy named Mike Williams that looked pretty good during most of his rookie season back in 2002... Not saying that Oher wont be a stud, but 3 games does not a career make. Oher was universally ranked as the 4th best tackle in the draft. Having him probably would have helped, but who knows how Maybin's career will go? If he develops into a stud pass rusher, then I think the front office made the right move. Meanwhile, they picked up a good, young center in free agency, landed arguably the two best OGs in the draft -- and just picked up a guy from Green Bay that was ranked by most experts as the 5th-8th best OT in the draft. So you can't say that the FO didn't do their best to address the OL this year. Prior to this year, most certainly... but not this year. Oher and Williams are completely different players. The former is a 320 pound LT who is very nimble and athletic. Mike Williams was a RT weighing about 375. The skill set for RT's versus LT's is very different, as a LT is valued for their ability to pass block, whereas the RT should be adept at run blocking. Generally, opposing pass rushers line up opposite the LT. That said, there is a premium placed on good LT's. I count 14 LT's (who will or are expected to play the position) taken in the first round from 05-09: Jammal Brown, D. Ferguson, Joe Thomas, Joe Staley, Jake Long, Duane Brown, Ryan Clady, Branden Albert, Chris Williams, Sam Baker, Oher, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith, and Jason Smith. The Bills entered the season with an offensive line held together with duct tape and baling wire. It wasn't all that solid in 08, but they insisted that everything was fine when it wasn't. Who precisely evaluates pro and amateur talent that they didn't see a definite problem with having Walker, Butler, and Bell as their OT's? Because that is and will continue to haunt the team this season. Fans may continue to malign Jason Peters, but it's clear that despite a poor 2008, he'd be a lot better as a veteran that what the team has now at OT. The key was, RW and company didn't have to pay his salary. And that's what mattered most.
spartacus Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 You're right on. Their fateful decision to not draft a tackle this year has come back to bite them on their a__ __!They thought moving Walker was the answer. Now they have No tackles this week. People can argue with me all day on this but OBD/Jauron really messed up on this one and somebody should pay with their job! they should have drafted Ryan Clady at LT LAST year knowing that they were going to play hardball with Peters in 2008. McElvin is another small injury prone guy that Dick loves to pick. Not keeping Peters is the beginning of this mess and was totally self inflicted. They should have kept Dockery as well until they had proved they had a better replacement on the roster. They basically cut Dockery to use his money to sign Peters, then did not sign Peters. And then they cut Walker and saved his salary as well - but still did not bring in any re-inforcements for either OT spot.
HurlyBurly51 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 they should have drafted Ryan Clady at LT LAST year knowing that they were going to play hardball with Peters in 2008. McElvin is another small injury prone guy that Dick loves to pick. Not keeping Peters is the beginning of this mess and was totally self inflicted. They should have kept Dockery as well until they had proved they had a better replacement on the roster. They basically cut Dockery to use his money to sign Peters, then did not sign Peters. And then they cut Walker and saved his salary as well - but still did not bring in any re-inforcements for either OT spot. WOW - where is all that money going?! Maybe we could use some of that money to bring a real personnel man in here who believes in building a football team from the trenches out.
Sen. John Blutarsky Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 What are you basing Buffalo's supposed "smallish overall team size" on? I just looked at a bunch of rosters on NFL.com, and we're no bigger/smaller than the rest of the league...except at WR, where we really haven't sustained any injuries (knock on wood). They may not be small, but they sure do play that way. I think the problem is that the Bills are small in areas that matter, brains and balls for example.
Thoner7 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this thread. I could've recited what it said before I clicked on it, because I've read too much of this same crappola already. But I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. You have absolutely zero cause to be calling Maybin a "pop warner OLB". He's actually played reasonably well when put in the game. Yes, I know he has zero sacks, but he applied constant pressure against New England, and looked good (even against the run) in spot duty against TB. I don't really know why he didn't play more against NO, but give the guy more than 3 regular season games (after missing all of training camp, by the way), before you have a melt-down over it. Buffalo picked offensive linemen in each of the first two rounds, guys that appear as thought they're going to be pretty good pros, and yet people like you B word that they didn't take the one you wanted. Obviously they felt like Bell/Walker would be servicible at LT, and there's no way they could've counted on Butler sustaining a season-ending knee injury. You know, 21 other teams passed on this guy as well, and plenty of them could've used a good LT (I cite off the top of my head: Detroit, KC, Seattle, Oakland, GB, SF, Hou, SD, TB). Obviously, there were some questions regarding whether or not the guy was worth a top draft pick, or else he wouldn't have fallen to No. 23. Also, I'm just curious, how closely have you watched Oher this year? Or are you simply making conclusions based on the performance of the whole team? Also, it probably doesn't hurt Oher's performance that he's playing in front of one of the highest-rated QBs in the game through 3 weeks. The only thing painful here is reading the postings of those that think they know everything based off of 3 games of a guy's rookie season. Det. KC. Seattle, GB, SF, SD all have either A)Pro Bowl Caliber Ts, or B) Young recently drafted Ts. That also doesnt mean we didnt have a huge need at Tackle.
Thoner7 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 they should have drafted Ryan Clady at LT LAST year knowing that they were going to play hardball with Peters in 2008. McElvin is another small injury prone guy that Dick loves to pick. Not keeping Peters is the beginning of this mess and was totally self inflicted. They should have kept Dockery as well until they had proved they had a better replacement on the roster. They basically cut Dockery to use his money to sign Peters, then did not sign Peters. And then they cut Walker and saved his salary as well - but still did not bring in any re-inforcements for either OT spot. Yea because Jason Peters didnt hold out untill this off season....or wait.... You win games with the Lines, the the DBs
Thurman#1 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 We never had a chance this year. The FO blew it before the first game. We should be starting on o-line of:Oher-Levitre-Hangertner-Wood-Walker. They wasted our 1st pick on a pop warner OLB instead of the best left tackle left on the board. That mistake costed us the playoffs this year. Michael Oher is a beast for the Ravens. What are we getting out of Maybin? Trent could be very good behind a good o-line and we have a plethera of skilled players. OBD is always trying to "outsmart" people, only to show everyone who are the consistent dummies. This year is over, we're not making the playoffs. Please fire Jauron and Brandon. Next year get us the best Left tackle and outside linebacker available. Mr. Wilson...Please pay for a great coach. I have been a faithful fan for 30 years, even played at Rich in h.s. championship...this team is painful to watch. Oher is a right tackle, not a left tackle. He wasn't drafted as high as Smith, Smith and Monroe exactly because of the widespread doubts that he could be an NFL left tackle. If we had drafted him, he would still be playing right tackle for us.
Thurman#1 Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 You continue to make the same mistake as the OP. The FO obviously felt like they'd be okay at tackle with Butler, Walker, and Bell. They didn't anticipate Walker's play being so abysmal (admittedly, neither did a lot of us) and there's no way they could've expected both Bell and Butler to be injured by week 4. They also obviously realized that the OL needed to get better, so they brought in a center and drafted guys that appear to be 2 very good guards. And you want them fired over it! I'm not here to defend the FO, but c'mon man, be reasonable. If they didn't draft a DE early, we'd all be sitting here whining about how they did nothing to fix the pass rush. They clearly wanted to be competitive this season, which meant they had to go with players that they already had at at least one position between OT, OG, and DE. Clearly, they felt that their talent level at OT was the most passable of those positions, and I can understand why. Hind-sight may be 20/20, but I don't really see how their strategy was flawed from the get go. Butler played well at tackle and nobody's even sniffed at Walker since he's been released. I just can't see eye-to-eye with your point. For those of you going on about how the fact that Walker is not on a roster proves something ... how do you know he hasn't been sniffed at? Have you got contacts at his office? All we know is that he hasn't signed a contract. The fact is that the Bills screwed Walker, letting him go at the exact worst time. Teams had already made up their entire rosters, they had already maxed out their salary caps, and they had already gone through an entire training camp with their present RT situations. For all we know, he's been offered five contracts in the $3 mill range and turned them all down for money reasons. The Bills screwed Langston.
spartacus Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Yea because Jason Peters didnt hold out untill this off season....or wait.... You win games with the Lines, the the DBs Brandon told Peters in janaury 2008 that the would not get a new contract in 2008 which is what caused him to skip all off-season activities prior to the 2008 draft. The Bills shipped him out of town in 2009 before camp started so he couldn't have held out this year.
BillsVet Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 For those of you going on about how the fact that Walker is not on a roster proves something ... how do you know he hasn't been sniffed at? Have you got contacts at his office? All we know is that he hasn't signed a contract. The fact is that the Bills screwed Walker, letting him go at the exact worst time. Teams had already made up their entire rosters, they had already maxed out their salary caps, and they had already gone through an entire training camp with their present RT situations. For all we know, he's been offered five contracts in the $3 mill range and turned them all down for money reasons. The Bills screwed Langston. Walker was set up to fail, although we'll never know for sure if it was intentional. The man had never played LT for more than 2 games in his career, and that was as a stop-gap. The team was telling him to play a position which he wasn't cut out for. I don't think they let him go to give him the short end of the stick. The staff probably saw he had regressed considerably and would not hold up at LT. So they cut him, rather than shift the guy back to RT, and thus make huge changes to an already flipped OL. But I'm sure his contract made it easier, simply because he'd count against their cap, but it wouldn't be much spent. IIRC, his contract was front loaded. But the bonus money is spread over the length of the deal.
spartacus Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 For those of you going on about how the fact that Walker is not on a roster proves something ... how do you know he hasn't been sniffed at? Have you got contacts at his office? All we know is that he hasn't signed a contract. The fact is that the Bills screwed Walker, letting him go at the exact worst time. Teams had already made up their entire rosters, they had already maxed out their salary caps, and they had already gone through an entire training camp with their present RT situations. For all we know, he's been offered five contracts in the $3 mill range and turned them all down for money reasons. The Bills screwed Langston. and they paid him his roster bonus in March. Really freakin stupid they should have paid Dockery his bonus in March too and spent some time trying to arrange a real trade for both of them- before giving both of them away for nothing
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