DaBills51 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Trent had significant playing time his Rookie year. JP had his leg broken by a scumbag his Rookie year in PRESEASON. Nice attempt though. So, let me get this straight....Troy Vincent, the ex-NFLPA president and the 2002 Walter Payton Man of the Year award recipient is a scumbag because he put a hit on JP during training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I think the point people are trying to make is as bad as you think JP is, SO FAR Trent has been every bit as bad, maybe even worse. Not even close. Losman could not quarterback his team to wins. What did he average, 2.5 wins per year? He sucked, and he will always suck. Always, no matter how much you want him to be good. Please face the truth. You will thank me some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I agree that a new coaching staff would bring in a veteran to compete, however our FO will remain the same, and I believe we all know how our FO has handled the QB position over the past couple of years. That has more to do with Dick and the coaching staff. Kind of hard to pin that on the Modrak, Brandon, et al. We will probably see a situation similar to when Kelly Holcomb was brought in to compete with Losman. Trent may lose his job around midseason next year, but I see him as the starter for the season opener. IMHO, depending on who is brought in, I can see Edwards losing the job in the preseason, especially if he continued to play the same way he does now. Hopefully by the end of the year this conversation will be pointless and we will have other positions to worry about improving. Let's hope. It would be nice to finish the season with a winning record, and a playoff appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Can we talk about how Holcomb never got a fair shot now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 This isn't fantasy football. If good QB play gets you to the redzone and a RB runs the ball in that's just as good as if the QB threw the pass. The points count the same. However the QB helps the team score is what matters. I agree with this premise, that is why I said "most likely". You may find a QB that is on a team that likes to run it in when in the Red Zone that may have a few fewer TD's thrown than an inferior QB but over all I think this is the best measure of a QB. When comparing Trent & JP they played on basically the same team & in his best year JP has thrown for almost TWICE the amount of TD's as Trent has so far in his best year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Passing TD's OVERRATED? That is the CRAZIEST thing I have ever heard. 99% of the other QB stats are pointless & overrated if you will. Passing TD's is the one stat that you can use to see how GOOD a QB is. You can't use it to compare QB's from different eras, but if you compare QB's that were contemporaries the QB with the most TD's is most likely the better QB. well, if they are not overrated as YOU claim, please allow me to throw some names out at you in no particular order: jim kelly vinny testaverde dave krieg joe montana drew bledsoe these qb's all played at the same time. care to compare QB's that were contemporaries and tell me who is the best out of the bunch in order from best to worst using your methods? 3 of the 5 named are top 10 all time in td passes YOUR THEORY, SIR, DOES NOT HOLD ANY MERIT turnovers and when they occur are more important than td passes imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 So, let me get this straight....Troy Vincent, the ex-NFLPA president and the 2002 Walter Payton Man of the Year award recipient is a scumbag because he put a hit on JP during training camp. YES!!!!!! You don't hit a teammate like that in practice. Especially a QB in a RED jersey not EXPECTING to be hit. Troy Vincent is a SCUM BAG!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 JP's 2nd year was his 1st year with ANY playing time at all. Keep 'em coming. I know, stupid, isn't it? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Huh? Oh, I got it. You quote JP's best SINGLE season vs. ALL of TE's games. Mind if I do a little bit of the same: JP = 42 games, 33 TDs = 1.27 .786 TDs per game. TE = 27 games, 22 TDs = 1.22 .810 TDs per game. Looks like a statistical dead heat when it comes to TD passes per game played. I love stats. You had me at, (TE) "he needs to step us his game." Game, set, match. That's all that really matters. Here's hoping he does. GO BILLS!!! P.S. - Thanks DC Tom and Magox for correcting my math. Losman one of the most accurate down field passers in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 well, if they are not overrated as YOU claim, please allow me to throw some names out at you in no particular order: jim kelly vinny testaverde dave krieg drew bledsoe these qb's all played at the same time. care to compare QB's that were contemporaries and tell me who is the best out of the bunch in order using your methods? 2 of the 4 named are top 10 all time in td passes. 3 of the four have more td's than the fourth YOUR THEORY, SIR, DOES NOT HOLD ANY MERIT If you are quoting stats for their entire career that does not hold any merit. Compare them on a YEAR by YEAR BASIS & tell me how far off I am. I agree with you about turnovers they are also important to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 well, if they are not overrated as YOU claim, please allow me to throw some names out at you in no particular order: jim kelly vinny testaverde dave krieg drew bledsoe these qb's all played at the same time. care to compare QB's that were contemporaries and tell me who is the best out of the bunch in order from best to worst using your methods? 2 of the 4 named are top 10 all time in td passes. 3 of the four have more td's than the fourth YOUR THEORY, SIR, DOES NOT HOLD ANY MERIT turnovers are more important than td passes imho Brett Favre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 JP 2nd year = 8 TDs in 8 starts TE 2nd year = 11 TDs in 14 starts Hmmmm......who had the better TD per games ratio? Also up until their second season JP had only attempted 5 passes where as Trent had already started 9 games and attempted 269 passes. Again I say Trent has yet to prove he is better than JP was. If he has proven that, how? I'd like to hear it. JP = 42 games, 33 tds = .785 TDs per game, career TE= 27 games, 22 tds = .814 TDs per game, career Hmmmmm.... who has the better TD per games ratio, CAREER? I won't go into the fact that in EVERY statistical category for QBs, TE ranks higher. Just thought I'd throw more STUPIDITY into the ridiculous argument about who's better, blah blah blah. TE hasn't proved crap. He's still playing in the league. JP hasn't proved crap. He's NOT playing in the league. Enough with the stupidity already. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebug Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 JP losman has Brett Favre's arm and can run like Mike Vick. He will be a first ballot Hall of famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 JP losman has Brett Favre's arm and can run like Mike Vick. He will be a first ballot Hall of famer. The problem with JP is so far he has also shown he has Mike Vicks brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Losman one of the most accurate down field passers in the NFL One-trick pony with a cannon for an arm. Yippee! I'm glad the rest of the league took advantage of his "down field passing accuracy." I know, every GM in a QB-starved league is stupid for not signing him. I don't get it either. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If you are quoting stats for their entire career that does not hold any merit. Compare them on a YEAR by YEAR BASIS & tell me how far off I am. I agree with you about turnovers they are also important to look at. you never made any disclaimer about which stats had to be used(single season vs career) so using career stats does your theory work? we're still comparing td passes and ranking players no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 let me state the following: i am a firm believer stats can be twisted however you or i want them to appear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 JP = 42 games, 33 tds = .785 TDs per game, career TE= 27 games, 22 tds = .814 TDs per game, career I won't go into the fact that in EVERY statistical category for QBs, TE ranks higher. Just thought I'd throw more STUPIDITY into the ridiculous argument about who's better, blah blah blah. TE hasn't proved crap. He's still playing in the league. JP hasn't proved crap. He's NOT playing in the league. Enough with the stupidity already. GO BILLS!!! If Trent does not improve, he may not play in the NFL much longer. JP may be finished or he may be like a phoenix & rise again to play in the NFL. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 let me state the following: i am a firm believer stats can be twisted however you or i want them to appear I totally agree. I would rather WATCH a player on the field than look at numbers on a page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If Trent does not improve, he may not play in the NFL much longer.JP may be finished or he may be like a phoenix & rise again to play in the NFL. Stay tuned. Are you going to wait until TE has appeared in the same 42 games, then, before pronouncing him a failure? I mean, you'd be willing to give him the same amount of games, wouldn't you? If not, why not? I hope JP DOES reclaim his career. It'd be one helluva story. I'm rooting for him. So I am staying tuned. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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