Tim Graham on TO

[Doc]

Harrison is a champion, but also a cheater.

The two go hand-in-hand. And someone get Mr. WEO a tissue a well.

[Mr. WEO]

The two go hand-in-hand. And someone get Mr. WEO a tissue a well.

A tissue for what, doc?

[MRW]

Was that Trent's response? If it was, then I truly wonder if he has the backbone to be a leader on this team for the future....

 

Not to look much into one's comments but let's put this in a hockey perspective where the code of the "team" is much more sacred. Imagine if Darcy Tucker of the Leafs (I chose him because in terms of hockey hate, I have never hated a player on a hated team as much as him...) decides to come out and call Daniel Briere a cancer, a loser, etc...

 

a) You know Drury will stick up for his teammate

 

b) You know the rest of the team will enact justice on the ice. Either by pounding them on the ice or on the scoreboard.

 

I would hope that Trent would defend his teammate better than the above quote and then I would hope that the Bills pummel the Pats either and/or on the scoreboard to give Harrison a colossal "FU" for bringing it up.

To be honest that response to me just shows that either by natural inclination or through indoctrination Edwards is the quintessential Jauron "leader". For his sake, I hope it's just that the environment he's in now is the only one he's known since going pro, and he can still be rehabilitated, but that's not the statement of a leader. Hell, I'd say it would be better if he'd called out TO for engaging in a war of words with someone who's just trying to court controversy. At least that would be expressing an opinion.

[Guest dog14787]

Was that Trent's response? If it was, then I truly wonder if he has the backbone to be a leader on this team for the future....

 

Not to look much into one's comments but let's put this in a hockey perspective where the code of the "team" is much more sacred. Imagine if Darcy Tucker of the Leafs (I chose him because in terms of hockey hate, I have never hated a player on a hated team as much as him...) decides to come out and call Daniel Briere a cancer, a loser, etc...

 

a) You know Drury will stick up for his teammate

 

b) You know the rest of the team will enact justice on the ice. Either by pounding them on the ice or on the scoreboard.

 

I would hope that Trent would defend his teammate better than the above quote and then I would hope that the Bills pummel the Pats either and/or on the scoreboard to give Harrison a colossal "FU" for bringing it up.

 

Just because Trent Edwards is one of the leaders of the Buffalo Bills doesn't mean he needs to jump in and take sides with his fellow teammates on everything. These are grown men we are talking about who have mouths of there own and lord only knows T.O. has never been afraid to use his. Maybe TE should have kissed T.O.'s toe and it would have healed faster, good grief.

 

Don't you think Trent Edwards has enough to worry about like the success of the whole football team. Not just T.O, Lee Evans, or Marshawn Lynch, every man on our Roster is depending on Trent Edwards. Besides that, its apparent Trent Edwards doesn't follow all the hoopla that goes on in the media and good for him, its a good way to keep your sanity in my opinion.

[Cheryl]

But his point is that TO is not upset with the loss, he is upset that his streak ended on another day where he was not involved in the offense.

 

You and Rodney Harrison should take your show on the road. You should be able to make millions as mind readers. How can you guys purport to know what going on in Owens' mind. You don't know whether he was upset about the loss or his reception streak. Yet, you make your comments like that are fact.

[Cheryl]

Don't you think Trent Edwards has enough to worry about like the success of the whole football team.

 

Maybe that's his problem. He needs to stop worrying and start figuring out how to get the football to his receivers.

[GG]

TO is the master. There has never been an NFL player like him in this regard. The proof is that he as many here wrapping themselves up in the TO flag, despite his mediocre (kindly said) performance on the field. He completely understands that, because this is the worst team he has ever played on, his calling out of teammates is actually encouraged by certain fans--so when his inevitable on-field, sideline, twitter meltdown occurs, it will have little consequence.

 

 

Welcome back Mr black or white. Too bad for you that you don't see the middle ground that doesn't equate disagreeing with the tone of the article with full support of Terrell Owens. Amazing how 90% of people misconstrued the article, yet your brilliant mind not only got the gist of it, but also unearthed TO inner thoughts.

[Guest dog14787]

Maybe that's his problem. He needs to stop worrying and start figuring out how to get the football to his receivers.

 

 

Welcome aboard,

 

Its AVP who probably needs to do most of the figuring, but the way I figure it, If the O-line protects, TE will deliver.

 

O-line has to mature, some of the more football savvy folks warned us this was going to happen. We are a work in progress and there's just no way around it.

[Cheryl]

Welcome aboard,

 

Its AVP who probably needs to do most of the figuring, but the way I figure it, If the O-line protects, TE will deliver.

 

O-line has to mature, some of the more football savvy folks warned us this was going to happen. We are a work in progress and there's just no way around it.

 

So true about Van Pelt. However, when the Bills signed T.O., they indicated a need for a receiver to complement Evans. It's hard to believe that Van Pelt isn't calling more plays to these guys.

 

Thanks for the welcome.

[Guest dog14787]

So true about Van Pelt. However, when the Bills signed T.O., they indicated a need for a receiver to complement Evans. It's hard to believe that Van Pelt isn't calling more plays to these guys.

 

Thanks for the welcome.

 

 

AVP is new at this and the impression I get from him is he understands why the offense struggled against the Saints. AVP also believes the Bills would do better if we faced the Saints again and its probably true. Problem is, I doubt our defense is able to hold them to 10 points for most of the game and sometimes you only get one chance to prove yourself against a good football team.

 

Its important we get Lee Evans and T.O. involved with the offense, AVP knows it, TE knows it, heck, everyone knows it including our opposition, but I think AVP will do his best this week to try to get the Bills biggest play makers more involved.( in this case involved)

Its not going to be easy though because the fish are going to throw everything they can at Trent Edwards and our young O-line.

[Mr. WEO]

Our problem is that it is blatantly clear to Bills fans that there is a double standard out there. You wanna go after TO? Fine. But, take on the other guys as well.

Back when TO was in SF, or in Philly, or in Dallas---did you think that there was a double standard that painted TO in an unfavorable light? His relationships with his teams and the press were exhaustively reported on, so you were well aware of the TO story back then. Did you feel this way at that time? Really?

 

Have you noticed that the press never "took on" Rice, Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald, or, these days, Moss?

 

Hey-- maybe you're onto something! Those guys never get attacked by the press. I wonder why THEY get a pass? TO has never been charged with a crime (figurativley throwing teammates under a bus is not an actual crime--although lying about it later should be), yet he's a topic of intense media attention continuously.

 

It's a real head-scratcher......

[Delete This Account]

Back when TO was in SF, or in Philly, or in Dallas---did you think that there was a double standard that painted TO in an unfavorable light? His relationships with his teams and the press were exhaustively reported on, so you were well aware of the TO story back then. Did you feel this way at that time? Really?

 

Have you noticed that the press never "took on" Rice, Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald, or, these days, Moss?

 

Hey-- maybe you're onto something! Those guys never get attacked by the press. I wonder why THEY get a pass? TO has never been charged with a crime (figurativley throwing teammates under a bus is not an actual crime--although lying about it later should be), yet he's a topic of intense media attention continuously.

 

It's a real head-scratcher......

funny, so's this post.

but since you speak for T.O., or at least have the apparent license to put his thoughts into words, well, guess you'd know.

 

jw

[extrahammer]

funny, so's this post.

but since you speak for T.O., or at least have the apparent license to put his thoughts into words, well, guess you'd know.

 

jw

 

For Tim Graham and anyone else, HGH isn't CALLED steroids, but it does serve the same purpose, produces better results, and comes with more side effects. If one was snow the other is sleet. So T.O. wasn't stretching it by saying steroids by any means.

 

Hope this helps!

[Doc]

funny, so's this post.

but since you speak for T.O., or at least have the apparent license to put his thoughts into words, well, guess you'd know.

+1

[loyal2dagame]

Have you noticed that the press never "took on" Rice, Marvin Harrison, Larry Fitzgerald, or, these days, Moss?

 

Hey-- maybe you're onto something! Those guys never get attacked by the press. I wonder why THEY get a pass? TO has never been charged with a crime (figurativley throwing teammates under a bus is not an actual crime--although lying about it later should be), yet he's a topic of intense media attention continuously.

 

It's a real head-scratcher......

 

wow the hypocrisy when it comes to moss. this is a guy who admitted to smoking pot during the nfl season. this is a guy who talked more crap after one game than T.O. has talked in his career. he also stated on numerous occasions "i play when i wanna play"

 

why does moss get a pass you ask?

 

because he NOW plays for the team that has been a media darling for the last ten years.

why doesnt the media dwell in bellicheat's piss poor handshakes after a game?

why is the media not still talking about spygate and digging even deeper to be sure that no team does it again?

 

the same could be said for rice, harrison and fitzgerald as it relates to them getting a pass from the press. two of the three played for what were or still are media darling teams(rice w/ 49ers and harrison with the dungy/manning led colts) and as for the other,(fitzgerald) the man has his stuff together and has yet to show his ass

 

i could go on, but again i have showed how that double standard applies using moss as my main example.

[Beerball]

sympathy from of all places NESN

halfway down under Film Room

[TimGraham]

I haven't seen anyone ask the obvious question:

 

why is Tim Graham on TO?

 

The reason it hasn't been asked is because I'm not. Read my work. I've defended him -- quite recently.

[dave mcbride]

Tim,

 

Again, I don't think there is a question as to whether or not it is proper or beneficial to ANYONE, for players to trash talk in a public forum.

 

And I agree with your insinuation that it is the organization/coaches responsibility to keep these things under control. The Bills do not have a strong FO/Coach when it comes to dealing with those things. That to me is the biggest problem.

 

But again, this goes back to the double standards that frustrate so many. TO is TO, that will never change. That being said, he clearly is trying to hold back from acting like a baby. And personally, I find it far more offensive that Rodney Harrison would take performance enhancing drugs, get a TV job (on a prime time network like NBC, not NFL.com or something), and then attacks TO with the kind of unintelligent rhetoric you hear in a bar. I mean, our problem as fans isn't the fact that we think TO is righteous in his "steroid" attacks. Our problem is that it is blatantly clear to Bills fans that there is a double standard out there. You wanna go after TO? Fine. But, take on the other guys as well.

 

That being said, and this is not an attack on you at all, but rather the media in general. Why is it that players like TO seem to be treated as a bigger criminal than the guys who have been caught using HGH or other performance enhancing drugs? Or the guys who punch their girlfriends in the face or have rape charges filed against them? Everyone loves to be all righteous about steroids, crime, etc., but it doesn't appear as though any of these guys are ever held accountable for their slip ups. It is forgotten about immediately after the suspension/ media coverage. And then you see guys like Harrison on TV as color commentators. I don't follow Merriman, but I would argue that he doesn't even deal with the same scrutiny that TO gets. I could be wrong about that, but on top of the performance enhancing drug suspension....the guy got domestic assault charges filed against him and still it seems ESPN would rather talk about what a baby TO is. Roethlisberger has a lawsuit against him over a potential rape and the NFL commentators talk about him like he is the second coming. ****, Vick was flamed after his indictment and conviction (rightfully so), but now that he is out of prison everyone is looking for the next great comeback story. Name a few NFL media types who aren't rooting for Vick to succeed? Now, I don't care about any of this stuff. I am all for redemption and I would love for Vick to clean up and be a success. But, how many people are out there rooting for TO to fail and hoping that people like Vick will succeed? I know the response will be that TO creates this kind of attention on his own. Maybe so, but still, in terms of his social character, he has not gone to jail, he has not beaten up his wife, he has not been one of the million NFL players who decides its a good idea to take a concealed (unregistered) handgun to a nightclub, he hasn't "made it rain". Do I think the guy can be a prick? Yes. But, he should not be dealing with the same level of scrutiny as a lot of these other fools. Maybe this is an argument better suited for sociology class or something, but the hypocrisy is all over the place.

Can't argue with this. After all, James Hardy, who appears to be far more of negative ball of energy in real people's lives than TO will ever be, is fine because, you know, he's coming off of PUP soon and he's ready to take one for the team.

[GrudginglyOptimistic]

The reason it hasn't been asked is because I'm not. Read my work. I've defended him -- quite recently.

Tim, I think you are a very enjoyable reporter to read about the game of football.

 

Where I think that the problem exists is that the media generally, Sully at times in particular, and you from time to time, end up reporting more about (whether folks are defending him or attacking him) about TO's personality, his spontaneous exhilaration or declarations, or his planned antics or whatever else.

 

The problem is that while TO's character (or lack thereof in many opinions) is important because it is obviously related to team chemistry and play on the field, but it is hugely different from play on the field.

 

The media (using this term to generally for accuracy but we internet blatherers do not hold ourselves to the same demands of accuracy that the working media should) has strayed way too far away from football pn the field and into a bunch of speculation and flights of fancy about individual player motivations and relationships.

 

One article about TOs attitude and the attitude of the team in pre-season is good journalism and thank you for doing that. However, a ton of discussion about TO's personality and his ramblings about Michael Vick, how he feels about the Bills no huddle until he has experienced it a several games, and much of the other blather about what he is tweeting is simply silly and a pretty poor excuse for journalism.

 

Just because it is new or even news does not mean it is newsworthy.

 

The best stories about TO are likely the ones not even printed because they really draw conclusions before a game has been played or even several games to establish anything resembling a real pattern.

 

Just because some people are interested does not make a particular point interesting.

 

Even if a point is a real INDICATOR does not merit someone drawing a CONCLUSION about TO as a Bill.

 

Sure he has a lot of history, but history by definition means it is in the past.

 

Think about it sure but I sure wish journalists would leave it out of articles.

 

Sure there are individual episodes worthy of coverage (like how so you feel about your consecutive catch streak ending> However, the only answer to this question is bad and I am moving on. Galactic analysis about this is totally silly as no analysis has been done yet.

 

Even questions about how TO feels about his relationship with Edwards, Evans, Jauron are pretty silly because there are only initial episodes and no real relationship until roughly mid-season.

 

This fan judges TO's antics so far in his career ad being pretty silly. The facts of TO becoming a point of division in his last three teams is most relevant for any reporter in recognizing that the MO is clear. TO spends the first year as a pretty good teammate and with his singular onfield accomplishments wins over the hearts and minds of many fans.

 

There is no reason to expect that this will not be the story with the Bills and the most relevant fact about him being a Bill as far as his personality is that he has a one year deal.

 

Yet, it is pretty undeniable that TOs prescence her so far has been marked by articles which declare him already melting down before he even stepped on the field to practice at voluntary workouts, the bizarre reaction which you witnessed first hand about TOs Vick views, an overblown reaction to a passing TO comment about the no huddle and then folks consider hin being sullen and snippy when he does his first press conference and clearly there are those who want to desperately see him throw Edwards under the bus.

 

TO is a jerk IMHO and I am free to have my opinions fact-free or not on TSW. However, it also is not unreasonable to expect a little journalistic detachment from folks who are trading themselves as journalist.

 

If you are defending TO or indicting him as a Bill two or three games after he hads played football games as Bill that is fine, However, if that is your approach then recognize that you will be considered to be just another blatherer rather than as a journalist.

 

TO should have been more of an adult in answering media questions after the game. I flat out agree with that view. However, the media should have been more adult in their questioning and not clearly been looking for and salivating to become part of the story when they offered TO the opportunity to say something stupid and then got annoyed when he would not say much at all.

 

TO was pretty bad on Sunday and the media from questions by Paul Hamilton and columns like Sullys and some of your comments were worse than TOs not earning the bucks he got and showing the best performance or of the media getting much smaller but still adult bucks for covering this boys game.

[Mr. WEO]

funny, so's this post.

but since you speak for T.O., or at least have the apparent license to put his thoughts into words, well, guess you'd know.

 

jw

Gee, John--exactly where in my post that you reference do I put TO's thoughts into words?

 

What are your thoughts about TO's past relationship with his teams, his fans and the press? Have they changed since you have been covering him in Buffalo?

 

And Loyaltothegame:

 

You missed the point---the guys I mentioned don't get taken on by the press not because they play on "media darling teams", but because they keep their mouths shut and play the game.

 

Moss was ridiculed by the press for his childish behavior/legal problems--and rightly so. He was also widely called out by many for absolutely dogging it in Oakland--where he was a pathetic quitter. Since he left for NE, he's done nothing to interest the salacious aspects of the press. He's kept his nose clean and his mouth shut, and just played the game.

 

Get it now?