Fan in Chicago Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Amen to that, we need Jon Gruden. Amen to that, but we do not need a coach like Gruden. He adds little value and won the Superbowl on the coattails of a great defense. We need a coach who can get players to play at or above their level of talent, a coach who can (to use a cliche) scheme to the players strengths.
Guest dog14787 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Where and how, specifically, did you sense this tension ? I did not see anything remotely resembling tension between the two. TO, to this point, has done or said nothing that implies he is a disruptive force. Apart from his lack of production and the inability of the offense to utilize him, things are going perfectly well. He has not raised a stink or been an idiot. You are seeing things which do not exist. I seen an exchange between the two when T.O. seemed to be openly questioning what was going on and it looked like TE said back, I'm running the plays I'm told to run or something of that nature.(speculation) Also T.O.'s body language and lack of acknowledgment and indifference when TE was relaying the plays to the offense caught my eye, sometimes T.O. wouldn't even look TE's way. All speculation on my part.
Fan in Chicago Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 All speculation on my part. Fair enough if it is speculation. Your post indicated you were sure about it.
Fixxxer Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Instead of tension, I sense a lack of chemistry on their part.
NewHampshireBillsFan Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Strongly agree with this post. Sorry Tim. Love your stuff and the time you spend posting on this board, but you don't have a pulse of the Bills fan base if you think we want refunds b/c TO isn't talking the way the press wants him too. Bills fans deserve refunds because they all have forked over money year after year for season tickets, merchandise, single game tickets because there is a very subtle threat that if this team doesn't make money it won't be in Buffalo any longer. That of course isn't the overt reason fans spend money on the team, like any other fans we love our team. But, Wilson and Co. have done a tremendous job over the last 10 years of marketing a ****ty product. That is what frustrates me. For the past decade the Bills have shown no signs to their fans that they are committed to winning. Perhaps that would be a better article, on the disease, not just some of the symptoms. More on the subject of TO, I think it is totally fair for the media to be upset with a player who is dismissive towards them. As often is the case, players forget their blessings and decide to play the martyr because they perceive the media to be harassing them. That is the way it goes. However, there are also certain scenarios when the "we are just doing our job card" doesn't work. I am sort of offended as a Bills fan, that the media is trying to use "Bills fans" as a weapon in their assault of TO. "The fans pay money to hear you talk". All of that stuff. Almost painting a picture of this little 12 year old orphaned kid wearing a TO jersey crying in front of his TV bc Owens isn't answering Jerry Sullivan's questions. The thing is, we don't give a **** about TO's conversations with the media. The Bills as an organization are dealing with far larger dramas than that. Fans just want to win. They don't care if Owens is acting like the class act that everyone knows he will never be. He is not Junior Seau and never will be. That being said, he is doing his best to not rile things up. If the media wants to write a story, I suggest writing one about how the NFL treats its small market teams. How the large majority of Detroit Lions fans couldn't watch their team win their first game in 2 years b/c the game wasn't sold out and thus blacked out locally. Or how the first priority of the Bills' FO seems to be "How to keep the team in Buffalo" instead of "How to win football games". Hell, if the media wants to roast someone, let them roast Dick Jauron, Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, because they helped put this clown show on the field for the past 3 years. But, don't create a "lipstick on a pig" kind of drama. Rant finished. I disagree with Tim Graham strongly on what TO owes the media. TO is not involved well in the offense and that is certainly trying to him as it would be to any of us in that situation. TO should not be asked what is wrong with the Bills offense because he is not in charge of designing the offense or calling the plays. All he can say without throwing the coaches and TE under the bus is that he is just running the plays being called. What else could he possibly say? I think TO is trying to handle a difficult situation well and doing the best he can with it. I wish Tim Graham could have had the same tenacity with Belicheat* during public interviews during a legitimate scandal involving a major coach as he does with TO. I never heard him try to egg Belicheat* in any way to say something controversial.
Guest dog14787 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Fair enough if it is speculation. Your post indicated you were sure about it. I'm bad about that, but I do sense some bad chemistry between the two and I hope I'm wrong. TE's not like anyone T.O. has ever played for in my opinion and I don't think TE will put up with anything short of being a team first kind of player.
Magox Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Interesting that Owens didn't seem to have a problem with the media when they were chronicling his every move during camp, when he invited JW along on his house-hunting expedition, etc. ...Buy the ticket, take the ride. Plenty of room for, umm, discussion on this one. By all means, feel free to disagree with the piece. All I'll ask is that you not create work for the moderators by descending to the "your a #### idiot" level -- for that, you can head over to Tim's blog -- and I appreciate the fact that the previous comments in this thread have not done so. There is all sorts of journalism, and attempting to bait TO into saying something controversial is just for show. That is precisely what the media has been doing, and I understand it is their job to sell something exciting, and TO going off on a rant sells.
Fewell733 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 what's depressing is that this garbage article will actually help TG's career, while his better work won't. He's getting a million page hits for this kind of "woe is me and the press"/TMZ/"not fit for toilet paper" detritus. It really just slams home the truth that there are too many perverse incentives in "journalism" today to actually see responsible, or even truthful, reporting. In fact such reporting is a rare exception, especially on the bigger platforms with larger audiences.
Guest dog14787 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Amen to that, but we do not need a coach like Gruden. He adds little value and won the Superbowl on the coattails of a great defense. We need a coach who can get players to play at or above their level of talent, a coach who can (to use a cliche) scheme to the players strengths. Seems to me Jon Gruden is very appealing to the public's eye, he's a good coach with a proven track record. Curious why you would think Jon Gruden would add little value to the Bills organization when Gruden himself is very marketable and does get results.
Fan in Chicago Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Seems to me Jon Gruden is very appealing to the public's eye, he's a good coach with a proven track record. Curious why you would think Jon Gruden would add little value to the Bills organization when Gruden himself is very marketable and does get results. I don't think much of him because of his lack of good results following the superbowl year. I do realize he had problems with the owner but he appeared incapable of transcending the gap of having a good QB (reports I read were that he wanted to draft Edwards). Also there were rumours that he could not keep the players together in the locker room (but that is a rumor). To me, he appears a slave to the talent and not someone who would 'bring out the best in the players'. At this point, that is what we need. And we need either Trent to gain confidence or we need a new QB. As far as unemployed coaches go, I would vote for Shanahan, Schottenheimer, Cowher and Gruden (in descending order). Not saying, mind you, that I don't want any others but if the choice were among ex-coaches this is how I would fall. Anyway, that is my position. GUess we hijacked a portion of the thread ...
Guest dog14787 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 what's depressing is that this garbage article will actually help TG's career, while his better work won't. He's getting a million page hits for this kind of "woe is me and the press"/TMZ/"not fit for toilet paper" detritus. It really just slams home the truth that there are too many perverse incentives in "journalism" today to actually see responsible, or even truthful, reporting. In fact such reporting is a rare exception, especially on the bigger platforms with larger audiences. Tim Graham is a pro, he knows what the public wants. We preach about how the world should be a better place, but when we click on our TV's at night we seek out the sleezy underworld, the Saprano's or Sons of Anarchy(one of my favorites). Give us the bad, all the death and destruction because misery loves company and deep down were we don't want to go, it makes us feel better. Sorry folks, ranting...
BuffOrange Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Amen to that, but we do not need a coach like Gruden. He adds little value and won the Superbowl on the coattails of a great defense. We need a coach who can get players to play at or above their level of talent, a coach who can (to use a cliche) scheme to the players strengths. Funny how nobody who credits Dungy with that SB ever credits Gruden for Oakland making the SB one year after he left. That Bucs offense did play above their talent level that whole postseason. They killed SF, and scored 20 pts in Philly for the first time in a gazillion visits with Brad Johnson and no running game.
kota Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 WOW i had somewhat more respect for Tim Graham not anymore..... He is just as bad as the rest of them.
Fixxxer Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Funny how nobody who credits Dungy with that SB ever credits Gruden for Oakland making the SB one year after he left. That Bucs offense did play above their talent level that whole postseason. They killed SF, and scored 20 pts in Philly for the first time in a gazillion visits with Brad Johnson and no running game. I like Gruden and I would be very happy to see him as our coach. He has flaws as any coach, but he's young and I'm sure he can learn from them to be better. I don't know if he gave us false praise on MNF but it was interesting to see how animated he was talking about our team, of which I think has the horses to be a whole lot better than it is right now. It just needs a little better guidance from the HC.
Fewell733 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Tim Graham is a pro, he knows what the public wants. We preach about how the world should be a better place, but when we click on our TV's at night we seek out the sleezy underworld, the Saprano's or Sons of Anarchy(one of my favorites). Give us the bad, all the death and destruction because misery loves company and deep down were we don't want to go, it makes us feel better. Sorry folks, ranting... I don't disagree. However, I think that journalism shouldn't be playing by the same rules as the entertainment industry. Watching ESPN you get the feeling that the line between entertainment and journalism or even just sport itself has disappeared. They present sports as if it were the WWE.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 I don't disagree. However, I think that journalism shouldn't be playing by the same rules as the entertainment industry. Watching ESPN you get the feeling that the line between entertainment and journalism or even just sport itself has disappeared. They present sports as if it were the WWE. That's a good point. ESPN=Entertainment Sports Programming Network. With few exceptions ("Outside the Lines") ESPN has not really ever practiced journalism. It's hard to get good journalism anywhere these days probably because there isn't that much demand for it. But it would be nice if there was less pandering to publicity and more of an earnest attempt at some semblance of journalism.
John from Riverside Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 First....I woud like to thank Tim Graham for posting on our site and bring us info quickly....... Second....I really dont care how TO acts.......I want a winning team......if the team is winning as long as his isnt doing criminal activity frankly I dont care
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 Sorry, but this is a bullcrap article, proven by this line: "All those Billeivers who spent $80 on Owens jerseys deserve to hear from him, especially when he and supposed 1-2 punchmate Lee Evans have combined for 13 catches, 186 yards and two touchdowns. " I'm sorry, but Lee Evans makes more than TO, as do some other players. The fans don't "deserve" to hear from any players or coaches. For the $80 they pluck down on the red white & blue laundry, game tickets, parking etc, the fans deserve a team that is committed to winning. If Tim Graham feels compelled to write an article on what Bills' fans deserve, the reporters should demand to have Ralph Wilson on that podium after every single game and ask him the same questions they asked Owens in the same tone. Sorry, Tim, you're digging for a story where there isn't one. TO isn't the reason for the fans ire and your story confirms TO's views of the media, especially when Jerry Sullivan is your standard bearer. If he's going to take Owens to task, he should recognize that he's the Ronnie Jones of sports columnists. Ironic that Sullivan's article yesterday targeted Dick Jauron and the way this team has been put together and not the sideshow Bob stuff.
Guest dog14787 Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 That's a good point. ESPN=Entertainment Sports Programming Network. With few exceptions ("Outside the Lines") ESPN has not really ever practiced journalism. It's hard to get good journalism anywhere these days probably because there isn't that much demand for it. But it would be nice if there was less pandering to publicity and more of an earnest attempt at some semblance of journalism. As an Artist if you wanted to paint a picture of something you see and you wanted the picture to stand out, would you not accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative. In this case and as in many cases the positive is represented by the negative when it comes to gaining notoriety. Boring doesn't sell...
shrader Posted September 30, 2009 Posted September 30, 2009 First....I woud like to thank Tim Graham for posting on our site and bring us info quickly....... Second....I really dont care how TO acts.......I want a winning team......if the team is winning as long as his isnt doing criminal activity frankly I dont care I wish there was some decent way to get an idea of what the general public thinks on this matter. So far, I've only seen media members say that the fans deserve to hear what a player thinks. I'm with you in that all I care about is if the team is winning or not. I would guess that the average fan feels the same way, but the things I read (local coverage and this board) more than likely don't represent the mindset of that average fan.
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