NYS to healthcare workers: Get Flu shots or lose your job

[Gene Frenkle]

Better yet, let's arrest them. Put them in prison with the people who won't get health insurance.

 

Sounds like a plan to you, doesn't it...

Nope, just fire them for failing to take the proper precautions to do their jobs effectively. In a non-Socialist country, your continued employment is still based on job efficacy and performance, right?

[Gene Frenkle]

Older and younger people, people with HIV area predisposed to contracting the flu. They don't eat at restaurants?

It would not be much of a stretch to say that most healthcare workers deal almost exclusively with people who are sick, most susceptible to disease and most likely to die from contracting the flu. I have a hard time getting past that point.

[KD in CA]

It would not be much of a stretch to say that most healthcare workers deal almost exclusively with people who are sick, most susceptible to disease and most likely to die from contracting the flu. I have a hard time getting past that point.

 

Except that it is a stretch, as the NYS rule is forcing people who do not directly handle sick patients to get the shot too. 'Health workers' is a pretty broad spectrum.

 

And let's remember folks, it's not even one vaccine, it's probably going to be three, one for the 'regular' flu and two for the 'swine' flu (depending on the necessary dosage for the swine flu vaccine -- they haven't figured that out yet since it's been deemed to be more important to rush the vaccine out than to actually test it).

 

 

I just love how people who railed about civil liberties during the Bush years are now completely on board with the government jabbing needles in your arm.

[Gene Frenkle]

Except that it is a stretch, as the NYS rule is forcing people who do not directly handle sick patients to get the shot too. 'Health workers' is a pretty broad spectrum.

 

And let's remember folks, it's not even one vaccine, it's probably going to be three, one for the 'regular' flu and two for the 'swine' flu (depending on the necessary dosage for the swine flu vaccine -- they haven't figured that out yet since it's been deemed to be more important to rush the vaccine out than to actually test it).

So it's "up to three" harmless vaccines. Suck it up, Nancy!

 

I just love how people who railed about civil liberties during the Bush years are now completely on board with the government jabbing needles in your arm.

And vice-versa of course, RIGHT???

[IDBillzFan]

So it's "up to three" harmless vaccines. Suck it up, Nancy!

Still not getting it. Unbelievable.

 

It's like discussing religion with DELLAPELLE JOHN.

[Gene Frenkle]

Still not getting it. Unbelievable.

 

It's like discussing religion with DELLAPELLE JOHN.

No I fully get it and even agree with the sentiment in general. In this case though it's misplaced.

 

Nobody's answered me yet: What about every school and job for which vaccination is a prerequisite? Are NYS healthcare workers required to have their Hep A and B vaccines as terms of employment? Tetanus shots? How is this different?

 

Where's your righteous indignation with these things?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

No I fully get it and even agree with the sentiment in general. In this case though it's misplaced.

 

Nobody's answered me yet: What about every school and job for which vaccination is a prerequisite? Are NYS healthcare workers required to have their Hep A and B vaccines as terms of employment? Tetanus shots? How is this different?

 

Where's your righteous indignation with these things?

 

 

Well, for one thing, militatry members sign away a good portion of their rights when they enlist.

 

And children are children, under the domain of their parents.

[Gene Frenkle]

Well, for one thing, militatry members sign away a good portion of their rights when they enlist.

 

And children are children, under the domain of their parents.

Except that with the children in question, it's not the decision of the parents. It's a requirement by the schools for the greater good of the student population. SOUND FAMILIAR??? Socialism!

 

What about vaccination requirements for employment in other public and private jobs? Same thing.

 

I think you might argue the point if somebody you consider Liberal told you that water is wet.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Somebody said that Rush hospital in Chicago that the workers had to sign a waiver if they don't get a flu shot... They would also have to wear a mask all during the flu season. A guy that I work also said he knew somebody that works with Ingalls also had to do the same thing. NYS is just cutting to the chase.

 

IMO, I look at like this. If I have to go out on the job and weld, I must wear welding protection... If I don't, I can get fired. You don't want to wear the PPE, you can't weld... If you are welder, you don't have a job.

[/dev/null]

If I have to go out on the job and weld, I must wear welding protection... If I don't, I can get fired.

 

In more ways than one

[ExiledInIllinois]

In more ways than one

 

 

Can't make me any more blind though!

 

Same thing with my steel toes shoes, all the people that work on site HAVE TO WEAR them. If mgmt catches me without them (after all they are paying for them)... I suppose I would get written up... Then fired if it keeps on happening.

 

What is the difference between more conventioanl work PPE (Personal Protection Equipment) and say a flu shot. Can a healthcare worker claim workers comp if they get sick because of their work???

[ExiledInIllinois]

How about if the people are allowed to look out for themselves?

 

Just a thought...

 

Good point... Then there is a lot of workman's comp and disability claims... No??

 

It isn't like just turning the clock back to 1929 and let ironworkers free walk on girders. There are other systems in place... Why don't you let them have a beer on lunch break too!

 

Why doesn't the NFL let players wear what they want too... Let's go back to the glory days.

 

I would expect these kinds of arguments from a board and posters that probably haven't worked a day of manual labor where one can actually screw up with their life.

 

If I get caught beyond the handrails or on a vessel without my PFD on, I surely can be fired. I have nobody to blame about the firing (I may get a second chance though). Of course my employer will grant me more slack and latitude with non-life threatening issues (say being on the internet or pushing a pencil... ). When it come to life, there is a zero mission mentality when not following procedure or safety practices that are laid out.

 

IMO, I see no difference with the flu and healthcare workers... The flu can be deadly.

 

You guys... What do you do, push a pencil...

[DC Tom]

What is the difference between more conventioanl work PPE (Personal Protection Equipment) and say a flu shot.

 

Biology. A "flu shot" is not equipment. There is a significant difference in perception between having an employer require you wear something, and having an employer require you put something in your body.

 

I'm not saying that difference in perception is right, just that it exists.

 

Can a healthcare worker claim workers comp if they get sick because of their work???

 

Not to the best of my knowledge. Never heard of it, at least.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Biology. A "flu shot" is not equipment. There is a significant difference in perception between having an employer require you wear something, and having an employer require you put something in your body.

 

I'm not saying that difference in perception is right, just that it exists.

 

 

 

Not to the best of my knowledge. Never heard of it, at least.

 

 

I see where you are going. Why not treat it that way... They surely would have fired you (or let you be stupid) if you didn't wear a mask in 1919.

 

Don't you think that is the "front lines" where things can spread... Especially in a hospital setting. Not getting one is just plain stupid in most cases and may even be of a detriment against "the cause" (battle agaiinst the pandemic).

 

I could just see my grandparents shaking their head in disbelief: "They want to give you a vaccine and you are denying them." "WTF! is wrong with you!"

 

 

Oh... If the healthcare worker dies because of the flu... Don't most employers stand to lose out on insurance?

[DC Tom]

I see where you are going. Why not treat it that way... They surely would have fired you (or let you be stupid) if you didn't wear a mask in 1919.

 

Don't you think that is the "front lines" where things can spread... Especially in a hospital setting. Not getting one is just plain stupid in most cases and may even be of a detriment against "the cause" (battle agaiinst the pandemic).

 

I could just see my grandparents shaking their head in disbelief: "They want to give you a vaccine and you are denying them." "WTF! is wrong with you!"

 

 

Oh... If the healthcare worker dies because of the flu... Don't most employers stand to lose out on insurance?

 

I think in 1919 they let you be stupid.

 

And you misunderstand the purpose of vaccinating health care workers. It's not so they don't die, or don't spread the disease. It's so they stay healthy enough to respond to an epidemic. It's a big problem if 70% of your nurses are out sick with the flu during a flu epidemic, for example.

[Gene Frenkle]

I think some of these recent analogies are missing the point because they talking about required precautions that are meant to protect the employee. The required flu shot is for the protection of the patients. A percentage of patients seen by these workers will not be able to get the flu shot because of allergic reaction, a bad immune system, age, etc... To expose them to healthcare workers who choose not to get the flu shot is an unnecessary and irresponsible risk. It's the same reason vaccination is a prerequisite for attending schools and working at jobs in both the public and private sectors.

 

The safety of the patients takes precedence over the personal choice of the healthcare workers. The employees always have the choice to quit if they don't want to live by the terms of employment.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think in 1919 they let you be stupid.

 

And you misunderstand the purpose of vaccinating health care workers. It's not so they don't die, or don't spread the disease. It's so they stay healthy enough to respond to an epidemic. It's a big problem if 70% of your nurses are out sick with the flu during a flu epidemic, for example.

 

Ya, I agree... Thanks, that too. That would make the epidemic even that much worse.

 

I don't know too much about 1919... But that (nurses out) had to be a problem.

 

Should we let healthcare workers to be stupid? Hell no! That is all I am saying. This "conservative" movement is crazy... Like I said, my grandparents are rolling over in their grave.

 

Not many have an urge for civil responsibility or civic duty without trying to grap the headlines as "a hero." Go figure. I could care less if the protection is an injection... At least they can control the workforce to handle the epidemic!

[ExiledInIllinois]

I think some of these recent analogies are missing the point because they talking about required precautions that are meant to protect the employee. The required flu shot is for the protection of the patients. A percentage of patients seen by these workers will not be able to get the flu shot because of allergic reaction, a bad immune system, age, etc... To expose them to healthcare workers who choose not to get the flu shot is an unnecessary and irresponsible risk. It's the same reason vaccination is a prerequisite for attending schools and working at jobs in both the public and private sectors.

 

The safety of the patients takes precedence over the personal choice of the healthcare workers. The employees always have the choice to quit if they don't want to live by the terms of employment.

 

That too. If a worker has to get a shot and can't handle it, then of course they shouldn't fire them... Things will be documented.

 

 

Common sense folks.

[DC Tom]

I think some of these recent analogies are missing the point because they talking about required precautions that are meant to protect the employee. The required flu shot is for the protection of the patients. A percentage of patients seen by these workers will not be able to get the flu shot because of allergic reaction, a bad immune system, age, etc... To expose them to healthcare workers who choose not to get the flu shot is an unnecessary and irresponsible risk. It's the same reason vaccination is a prerequisite for attending schools and working at jobs in both the public and private sectors.

 

The safety of the patients takes precedence over the personal choice of the healthcare workers. The employees always have the choice to quit if they don't want to live by the terms of employment.

 

No, it's not for the safety of the patients. It's for the integrity of the health care system during a pandemic, in order to maintain the ability system's ability to respond.

[DC Tom]

Ya, I agree... Thanks, that too. That would make the epidemic even that much worse.

 

I don't know too much about 1919... But that (nurses out) had to be a problem.

 

Should we let healthcare workers to be stupid? Hell no! That is all I am saying. This "conservative" movement is crazy... Like I said, my grandparents are rolling over in their grave.

 

Not many have an urge for civil responsibility or civic duty without trying to grap the headlines as "a hero." Go figure. I could care less if the protection is an injection... At least they can control the workforce to handle the epidemic!

 

Actually, it wasn't a big problem in 1919...because most care for illness was provided in the home. There was no worry about ER's being understaffed and overcrowded...because there basically weren't ERs, not as we know them today.

 

Modern society is actually a lot more fragile in the context of a severe epidemic than it was 90 years ago. We have a lot more "basic services" now that didn't exist (or were minimal) back then. And in a few American cities 90 years ago, even THOSE services collapsed. Personally...I'd prefer garbage men have H1N1 vaccinations mandated before health care workers...