K-9 Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 So you assumed I meant he successfully completed every single one? Are you kidding? Seriously? NO QB in history has ever done that. Throughout his tenure as a starter he has been a successful long ball thrower. Make no other assumptions. Don't read into it and neither of us will look silly. I seem to recall that being a successful completion for a ridiculous number of yards in the air. How about you? I think this speaks to the point I have made of "trusting your WR". Funny how JP and Lee were able to make these plays where Trent's occasional jump ball Lee is reaching back over the DB to get. As stated above. Me neither. Duh! I have no idea what you are talking about. Please show me where I said anything in reference to that. [insert standard rant about not putting words in my mouth here] Could be wrong on this but when did I mention ONLY JP/Lee??? I said JP could throw the deep ball prior to losing his starting job and also referenced one game where he came off the bench and pretty much immediately hit Lee for a bomb. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WAS ONLY TALKING ABOUT JP TO LEE. Just an example of JP going deep in the same game, same situation, same coaches, same WR, against the same team where Trent couldn't. Sorry to give you the slam dunk but take a look at just the LONGEST completions to a single WR over 25 yards over his last six games. This means that WR might have also had other long completions from JP that just weren't as long as their SINGLE longest. Not being condescending on "that" point but that statement honestly could be confusing. It also includes I'm sure some run after the catch but I think it easily speaks to his ability to throw the long ball well after Houston in '06. 30 Parrish 77 Reed 37 Evans 33 Royal 27 Reed 52 Reed 37 Evans 52 Evans As you'll see Evans wasn't the only guy that could get big completions. Even Reed was in there. In another thread, you call out a poster for cherry-picking stats. You do the same thing here. The fact remains that DCs started doubling Evans almost exclusively since that Houston game. That made things difficult for the Bills' O to go over the top. Didn't make a difference who the QB was. You mention some YAC in those numbers above. Ya think? The most telling stat you use is the 52 yarder to Evans. When Reed, Royal, and Parrish constitute 5 out of the 8 examples you use, all I can do is thank-you for making my point for me. You can keep clinging to the ridiculous notion that Fairchild PURPOSELY stopped running a successful offense if you must. My question is why then? Why would an OC PURPOSELY stop running an offense that garnered his starter the 11th rated QB ranking the previous season? That's the only reason I jumped into this thread. I would like an honest answer from those that actually think that. I've asked the question numerous times, too. There really is only one answer, BTW. Slam dunk? Don't mean to be condescending? Bullsh*t you don't. You can't help it. GO BILLS!!!
PDaDdy Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 In another thread, you call out a poster for cherry-picking stats. You do the same thing here. The fact remains that DCs started doubling Evans almost exclusively since that Houston game. That made things difficult for the Bills' O to go over the top. Didn't make a difference who the QB was. You mention some YAC in those numbers above. Ya think? The most telling stat you use is the 52 yarder to Evans. When Reed, Royal, and Parrish constitute 5 out of the 8 examples you use, all I can do is thank-you for making my point for me. You can keep clinging to the ridiculous notion that Fairchild PURPOSELY stopped running a successful offense if you must. My question is why then? Why would an OC PURPOSELY stop running an offense that garnered his starter the 11th rated QB ranking the previous season? That's the only reason I jumped into this thread. I would like an honest answer from those that actually think that. I've asked the question numerous times, too. There really is only one answer, BTW. Slam dunk? Don't mean to be condescending? Bullsh*t you don't. You can't help it. GO BILLS!!! Annhh WRONG. I point out that my stats do include run after catch. Thank you for finding it obvious what I already stated. To the detriment of my argument it doesn't even include OTHER long passes that just didn't happen to be that WRs longest of the day. Doesn't sound like cherry picking to me. Who cares about your point is?!??!? YOU refuted MY point saying that JP couldn't throw deep and didn't do it well or frequently!!! I DID intend to be condescending for most of the response but on ""that"" point, I use double double quotes because I quoted it the first time in my post, I didn't. Reading comprehension is an often overlooked skill. What kind of ridiculous statement is that. Until this second I don't think I have typed the name Fairchild in weeks if ever in this forum. I have asserted absolutely 100% NOTHING regarding Fairchild regarding his play calling or switching from successful plays to unsuccessful plays. Truly I have no idea what you are talking about. Again [insert standard don't put words in my mouth rant here]. You can't allege I said something I didn't and then rail against it. That is just silly. Heated emotional discussions are great but at least pay attention to what I have actually said. I will gladly at anytime defend or explain anything I have ACTUALLY said. You can't assume or make something up you think I said and then claim victory by disproving it. Seriously? Wow!
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I gave Losman 3 seasons so I'm sure as hell giving Trent 3 as well. Your hate is blinding you. I am also giving Trent the rest of the year & voted that way in the poll in the other thread. After the last game however, I am so sick of Dick & Trent that I can't wait for this season to end. I have NO faith that the two of them will lead the Bills to a winning record this year. I wouldn't even mind the losses so much if they were at least fun to watch, but Dick & Trent Football is BORING.
PDaDdy Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I am also giving Trent the rest of the year & voted that way in the poll in the other thread. After the last game however, I am so sick of Dick & Trent that I can't wait for this season to end. I have NO faith that the two of them will lead the Bills to a winning record this year. I wouldn't even mind the losses so much if they were at least fun to watch, but Dick & Trent Football is BORING. Actually you hit upon an issue that I hoped would be resolved this year. The BORING factor. I figured win or loose this year with TO we at least wouldn't be as boring as we have the last 2 years and beyond I guess for that matter. So much for that hope so far.
K-9 Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Annhh WRONG. I point out that my stats do include run after catch. Thank you for finding it obvious what I already stated. To the detriment of my argument it doesn't even include OTHER long passes that just didn't happen to be that WRs longest of the day. Doesn't sound like cherry picking to me. Who cares about your point is?!??!? YOU refuted MY point saying that JP couldn't throw deep and didn't do it well or frequently!!! I DID intend to be condescending for most of the response but on ""that"" point, I use double double quotes because I quoted it the first time in my post, I didn't. Reading comprehension is an often overlooked skill. What kind of ridiculous statement is that. Until this second I don't think I have typed the name Fairchild in weeks if ever in this forum. I have asserted absolutely 100% NOTHING regarding Fairchild regarding his play calling or switching from successful plays to unsuccessful plays. Truly I have no idea what you are talking about. Again [insert standard don't put words in my mouth rant here]. You can't allege I said something I didn't and then rail against it. That is just silly. Heated emotional discussions are great but at least pay attention to what I have actually said. I will gladly at anytime defend or explain anything I have ACTUALLY said. You can't assume or make something up you think I said and then claim victory by disproving it. Seriously? Wow! Let's back it up. You initially replied to a post of mine which was a response to another poster entirely. THAT poster asserted Fairchild deliberately changed the offense from one that catered to JP's strengths. I said that is ridiculous and you chose to jump into THAT debate. So, if you TRULY have no idea what I am talking about vis-a-vis Fairchild, then you didn't read my post to which you intitially responded and, if you DID read it, you are the last person who should be chiding ANYONE for reading comprehension difficulties. Secondly, I fully read and understood your allusion to YAC in your previous post. I would have thought someone of your obviously superior intellect would pick up on my sarcastic "Ya think?" remark. Guess you were too "heated" to pick up on that. Thirdly, I NEVER said JP couldn't throw the long ball. I simply asserted, and continue to do so, that since the Houston game in 2006, DCs made it a point to take the JP/Evans long ball away by playing lots of man over, man under double coverage since then. That is a FACT. I can't help it if YOU chose to reference 5 out of 8 passes completed to guys like Reed, Parrish, and the ultimate seam stretcher, Robert Royal as indicators that JP continued to enjoy long-ball success AFTER the Houston game in 2006. Again, thanks for making my point. Now, quickly go back to your stat sources so you can further prove your baseless claim about JP's continued mastery of the long ball AFTER the '06 Texans game. Be sure to look at EVERY pass he made since that game and subtracting the actual YAC from those totals. It's one helluva daunting task but something tells me you're up to it. GO BILLS!!!
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Let's back it up. You initially replied to a post of mine which was a response to another poster entirely. THAT poster asserted Fairchild deliberately changed the offense from one that catered to JP's strengths. I said that is ridiculous and you chose to jump into THAT debate. So, if you TRULY have no idea what I am talking about vis-a-vis Fairchild, then you didn't read my post to which you intitially responded and, if you DID read it, you are the last person who should be chiding ANYONE for reading comprehension difficulties. Secondly, I fully read and understood your allusion to YAC in your previous post. I would have thought someone of your obviously superior intellect would pick up on my sarcastic "Ya think?" remark. Guess you were too "heated" to pick up on that. Thirdly, I NEVER said JP couldn't throw the long ball. I simply asserted, and continue to do so, that since the Houston game in 2006, DCs made it a point to take the JP/Evans long ball away by playing lots of man over, man under double coverage since then. That is a FACT. I can't help it if YOU chose to reference 5 out of 8 passes completed to guys like Reed, Parrish, and the ultimate seam stretcher, Robert Royal as indicators that JP continued to enjoy long-ball success AFTER the Houston game in 2006. Again, thanks for making my point. Now, quickly go back to your stat sources so you can further prove your baseless claim about JP's continued mastery of the long ball AFTER the '06 Texans game. Be sure to look at EVERY pass he made since that game and subtracting the actual YAC from those totals. It's one helluva daunting task but something tells me you're up to it. GO BILLS!!! K-9 - He's right about the Josh Reed catch -- it was a bomb. It was right before the end of the second half in the Titans game in December 06. He completed a long TD pass to Royal against Miami as well. Royal was wide open, but it was windy and the pass was accurate. The catch by Parrish was a long pass too - right at the end of the Jax victory, if memory serves.
K-9 Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 K-9 - He's right about the Josh Reed catch -- it was a bomb. It was right before the end of the second half in the Titans game in December 06. He completed a long TD pass to Royal against Miami as well. Royal was wide open, but it was windy and the pass was accurate. The catch by Parrish was a long pass too - right at the end of the Jax victory, if memory serves. Oh, I remember the plays in question. And I never asserted JP couldn't throw the long ball. In fact, I've asserted the opposite over the years. And I've never asserted it in this thread. My point has been that since that Texans game in 2006, DCs have made it a point to double Evans and take away that quick-strike ability. That's a fact. That's what happens when you hit 83 yard TDs on consecutive plays. And it's smart. The only exception I can think of off the top is the play to Evans against the Jets at the Meadowlands in '07. Ironically that was one of JP's poorer long passes and, if not for the Jets double team getting there late and Evans' great play to come up with the ball, it would have been incomplete at best, intercepted at worst. There were other attempts in the few instances that single coverage was played but BOTH JP and TE couldn't get it done. Those single coverage plays have been far and few between as DCs continued to double Evans and force the Bills to beat them with other players. Others believe that Fairchild DELIBERATELY changed his offense to one that didn't fit his STARTER'S strengths. All I'm saying and debating here is that's a ridiculous argument then and it is now. Lets not forget that coming off '06, JP was the unquestioned starter. Why would an OC do that? That's right, they wouldn't. GO BILLS!!!
Hanoverbills Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Yeah, the SAME OC took the SAME successful offense with the SAME successful QB, WRs, TEs, OL, RBs and DELIBERATELY decided all this success needed to come to a stop. Ridiculous. Clueless. Choose the adjective. Regardless, anyone who believes the Bills simply closed down that successful playbook from 2006 just doesn't know what they're talking about and aren't observant of the game. Why am I not surprised? DCs made it a point NOT to get beat by Evans over the top after the Texans game in 2006. DCs TOOK IT AWAY. Fairchild didn't scrap it. There's a big difference. The few times we did get single coverage on Evans and tried, BOTH JP and TE didn't get the job done. And it continues today with the big difference being Edwards would rather take any positive play vs. any negative play. I'm not saying that's always a good thing, either, BTW. JP never was nor will ever be capable of consistently being the type of QB that HAS to be patient enough to manage long drives. That's the biggest reason he's not in the league right now. He's a one-trick pony whose one trick happens to be the easiest one for DCs to take away. He's got one HELLUVA canon for an arm, though. Yippee. GO BILLS!!! Losman completed some long passes againts Miami, third to last game in 2006 and also Ten. that was the 2nd to last game in 2006 .They were both after Houston game. You look who we played the last 9 games in 2006, very tough schedule. Go to nfl stats, players and go to 2006 season of Losman. We should've won the Ten. game but Royal couldn't get both feet in for a T.D. We lost by one point that game. He had a nice t.d. againts San Diego back in corner of the end zone with two defenders on Peerless Price.
Magox Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Losman completed some long passes againts Miami, third to last game in 2006 and also Ten. that was the 2nd to last game in 2006 .They were both after Houston game. You look who we played the last 9 games in 2006, very tough schedule. Go to nfl stats, players and go to 2006 season of Losman. We should've won the Ten. game but Royal couldn't get both feet in for a T.D. We lost by one point that game. He had a nice t.d. againts San Diego back in corner of the end zone with two defenders on Peerless Price. letting go is hard to do. I sympathize with you
Hanoverbills Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 letting go is hard to do. I sympathize with you Losman is no longer here. And he did suck his last two years here, but when I hear that he can't play in this leaque.I think he can, I saw a young QB who made mistakes and also made some great plays. People say that they took Evans away from him and he can't hit anybody else, Know we have Owens and Evans and Edwards can't hit either one them. I see Losman making mistakes when there is presure on him. But I also See that with Brady and other QB including Mr.Edwards. Look at Brady who has been around 9 years, we put pressure on him and he made mistakes,same with Brees. I'm not saying Losman either one of these guys and I know he may not start in this leaque again, But I would liked to see how he would've done with both Evans and Owens.They could take evans away ,he would have Owens to throw to, I rather see someone trying to make plays down field than settling for a 4 yrd pass on 4th down with time running out. That pass that Farve made could've went either way ,but he took a chance. Edwards would've look for the TE or runningback.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 I am also giving Trent the rest of the year & voted that way in the poll in the other thread. After the last game however, I am so sick of Dick & Trent that I can't wait for this season to end. I have NO faith that the two of them will lead the Bills to a winning record this year. I wouldn't even mind the losses so much if they were at least fun to watch, but Dick & Trent Football is BORING. Don't watch. no one cares if you do. But please stop polluting the board with your anti-Edwards bias. Your buddy failed out of the NFL. Go visit Losman's league message board: www.notgoodenoughtoplayintheNFL.com
birdog1960 Posted October 1, 2009 Posted October 1, 2009 Losman is no longer here. And he did suck his last two years here, but when I hear that he can't play in this leaque.I think he can, I saw a young QB who made mistakes and also made some great plays. People say that they took Evans away from him and he can't hit anybody else, Know we have Owens and Evans and Edwards can't hit either one them. I see Losman making mistakes when there is presure on him. But I also See that with Brady and other QB including Mr.Edwards. Look at Brady who has been around 9 years, we put pressure on him and he made mistakes,same with Brees. I'm not saying Losman either one of these guys and I know he may not start in this leaque again, But I would liked to see how he would've done with both Evans and Owens.They could take evans away ,he would have Owens to throw to, I rather see someone trying to make plays down field than settling for a 4 yrd pass on 4th down with time running out. That pass that Farve made could've went either way ,but he took a chance. Edwards would've look for the TE or runningback. I hope he does well and makes it back. Not like it never happens .....remember Doug Flutie? I don't think he'll ever provide his supporters a big "I told you so" but why not wish him the best? It's not like he didn't give it his best.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Don't watch. no one cares if you do. But please stop polluting the board with your anti-Edwards bias. Your buddy failed out of the NFL. Go visit Losman's league message board: www.notgoodenoughtoplayintheNFL.com ALL of the JP HATERS polluted the board. Tit for tat. I will give Trent credit when he deserves it, but believe me when he plays like he did against the Saints, I will be on this board polluting it with the TRUTH.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 letting go is hard to do. I sympathize with you It is much easier to let go when the replacement is better than the person being replaced. Too bad that is not the case with JP & Trent.
aussiew Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Woa, and you let him go? (thanks for a little humor in this boring thread) Can you believe that guy said my Avatar looked like a mug shot? Oh the disrespect.
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 It is much easier to let go when the replacement is better than the person being replaced. Too bad that is not the case with JP & Trent. I don't know why I bother with you JPfan#1 (and this will be my last post about a minor league football player) but here are the facts: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781 Losman: 42 games, 75.6 QB rating, 558 for 941 completion % of 59.3%, 6211 yards, 147.9 yards per game, 6.6 yards per attempt, 33 tds, 34 ints, 103 rushes for 489 yards, 4.7 yards per carry, 3 tds, sacked 103 times (2.5 per game), 32 fumbles and 17 lost. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8346 Edwards: 27 games, 80.0 QB rating, 452 for 734, 61.6 completion %, 4,927 yards, 182.5 ypg, 6.7 ypa, 22 tds, 20 ints, 57 rushes for 228 yards, 8.4 ypc., 3 rushing tds, sacked 45 times (1.7 per game), 13 fumbles, and 5 lost. Edwards is better than Losman IN EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. Not to mention that the numbers are completely skewed because Losman had his "breakout" year in his 3rd season, which Edwards just started. also note that I have never once said Edwards is the answer. But he is a much better QB than Losman and deserves this year. And if you can honestly argue that Losman is a better QB, you must be mentally handicapped (with all due respect). And if you are, then I applaud your use of the computer.
Flbillsfan#1 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 I don't know why I bother with you JPfan#1 (and this will be my last post about a minor league football player) but here are the facts: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6781 Losman: 42 games, 75.6 QB rating, 558 for 941 completion % of 59.3%, 6211 yards, 147.9 yards per game, 6.6 yards per attempt, 33 tds, 34 ints, 103 rushes for 489 yards, 4.7 yards per carry, 3 tds, sacked 103 times (2.5 per game), 32 fumbles and 17 lost. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8346 Edwards: 27 games, 80.0 QB rating, 452 for 734, 61.6 completion %, 4,927 yards, 182.5 ypg, 6.7 ypa, 22 tds, 20 ints, 57 rushes for 228 yards, 8.4 ypc., 3 rushing tds, sacked 45 times (1.7 per game), 13 fumbles, and 5 lost. Edwards is better than Losman IN EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. Not to mention that the numbers are completely skewed because Losman had his "breakout" year in his 3rd season, which Edwards just started. also note that I have never once said Edwards is the answer. But he is a much better QB than Losman and deserves this year. And if you can honestly argue that Losman is a better QB, you must be mentally handicapped (with all due respect). And if you are, then I applaud your use of the computer. Here are the FACTS Biscuit. You can pull up stats all you like but you can't really compare them for the simple reason they were accrued against DIFFERENT Teams at Different times. JP played against some MUCH BETTER Teams than Trent has. Trent also has MUCH BETTER players around him than JP did, and has been in the same offense since his Rookie year. While JP had his breakout year his 3rd year he BROKE HIS LEG his rookie year & played very little that year. I already said I agree with you that Trent deserves this year. I would not want it any other way. We shall see at the end of the year if Trent is any better than JP.
keepthefaith Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 Here are the FACTS Biscuit. You can pull up stats all you like but you can't really compare them for the simple reason they were accrued against DIFFERENT Teams at Different times. JP played against some MUCH BETTER Teams than Trent has. Trent also has MUCH BETTER players around him than JP did, and has been in the same offense since his Rookie year. While JP had his breakout year his 3rd year he BROKE HIS LEG his rookie year & played very little that year. I already said I agree with you that Trent deserves this year. I would not want it any other way. We shall see at the end of the year if Trent is any better than JP. I don't think it's a coincidence that JP and now Trent's play did and will decline under Jauron.
K-9 Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 I don't think it's a coincidence that JP and now Trent's play did and will decline under Jauron. But I thought JP had his best season under Jauron? Which is it? GO BILLS!!! P.S. - I forgot to add that according to every statistical measure TE has IMPOVED over his time in Buffalo. All of which is under Juaron, obviously.
keepthefaith Posted October 2, 2009 Posted October 2, 2009 But I thought JP had his best season under Jauron? Which is it? GO BILLS!!! P.S. - I forgot to add that according to every statistical measure TE has IMPOVED over his time in Buffalo. All of which is under Juaron, obviously. JPs play declined under Jauron as time went on an Trent looks to be on the same path when you look at his numbers from early last year going forward.
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