Just got home from the game...this is how N.O. Stopped us.

[Lv-Bills]

As a precursor to this post, I will say that I didn't concentrate on the defensive front at all, but I did study everything the secondary did to our WR's......almost all game.

 

First off, the fact that anyone here says that they didn't double Owens all game was dead wrong. As a matter of fact, they doubled Owens and/or Evans EVERY play that the Bills ran when they didn't have their third WR on the field. And for this reason, AVP was overmatched yesterday because he stayed in that two TE, 1 RB, 2 WR set a TON of the time.

 

Here's what the Saints did to bottle up our 2 WR set. They sat two safeties very deep in the secondary. One provided the double coverage on Evans, and the other one provided the double on Owens. This was true almost every down that the Bills ran out of their two WR set. EVERY DOWN. Same double coverage on both WR's. The frustrating part of this was that instead of using a friggin slant from one of the WR's into that soft middle and underneath of the deep safety, they just kept running sideline stuff or wide stuff right into both of them. The other thing that was noticeable was that Trent NEVER looked at the TE that sometimes ran down the seam in the defense. One TE would run the stupid 2 yard out, and one sometimes strectched and put pressure on the seam. Trent never even looked to the seam guy who was the guy open a lot. Totally on AVP and Trent for not adjusting/reading the coverage. Mind boggling actually.

 

When the Bills were in their 3 WR set, they had modest success, BUT the Saints still doubled Owens and/or Evans EVERY play. The Saints had one safety back in this coverage. That safety did the best he could to disguise who he was going to double and then picked either Owens or Evans every play. So, one of the two in the 3 WR set was doubled each time. Trent never was able to process which one (Evans or Owens) to go to. Talk about frustrating. Add to this philospophy that Sean Payton had was that they didn't respect the slot WR at all. They took away the #1 and #2 WR's and were determined to let the non-playmaker TE's and Josh Reed beat them. It worked perfectly. They exposed multiple problems the Bills have. They obviously had no respect for Josh Reed, because they left the middle deep of the field wide open most of the time unless Owens or Evans ran patterns through there, which wasn't often.

 

Lastly, when the Bills were in the 3 WR set, NO had their CB that didn't have the double coverage behind him hauling ass backwards to make sure he didn't get beat deep. It wasn't a traditional backpedal, it was an almost turn and run kind of thing, to where if AVP was making adjustments, and Trent could read the doubling safety, they could have had Owens or Evans just run hard 7 yards and stop and they would have ate NO alive. Well, NO would have had to come out of that coverage. But AVP never adjusted and Trent never read it.

 

Lastly, and slightly off this topic was that Owens has every right to B word. AVP was awful, and Trent was bad. At the same time though, Owens really needs to also shut his mouth. For a guy that works out as hard as he does, he's very lazy. He doesn't run routes that great AND he almost NEVER comes back to the QB if the QB is flushed from the pocket. Every time Trent was flushed, I saw every other eligible Bill on the field fighting back toward the QB except Owens. T.O. pouted as soon as Trent was flushed out of the pocket and he simply quit on the play. Almost every time. He gave up.

 

Several frustrating things yesterday, and all correctable with the right coaches.

[cåblelady]

First off, the fact that anyone here says that they didn't double Owens all game was dead wrong.

Ummmm......wrong. I was at the game, too.....and he wasn't doubled the whole game.

[Lv-Bills]

Ummmm......wrong. I was at the game, too.....and he wasn't doubled the whole game.

Yes he was. Every play we had only two WR's on the field. Yes, he most certainly was.

[SwampD]

As a precursor to this post, I will say that I didn't concentrate on the defensive front at all, but I did study everything the secondary did to our WR's......almost all game.

 

First off, the fact that anyone here says that they didn't double Owens all game was dead wrong. As a matter of fact, they doubled Owens and/or Evans EVERY play that the Bills ran when they didn't have their third WR on the field. And for this reason, AVP was overmatched yesterday because he stayed in that two TE, 1 RB, 2 WR set a TON of the time.

 

Here's what the Saints did to bottle up our 2 WR set. They sat two safeties very deep in the secondary. One provided the double coverage on Evans, and the other one provided the double on Owens. This was true almost every down that the Bills ran out of their two WR set. EVERY DOWN. Same double coverage on both WR's. The frustrating part of this was that instead of using a friggin slant from one of the WR's into that soft middle and underneath of the deep safety, they just kept running sideline stuff or wide stuff right into both of them. The other thing that was noticeable was that Trent NEVER looked at the TE that sometimes ran down the seam in the defense. One TE would run the stupid 2 yard out, and one sometimes strectched and put pressure on the seam. Trent never even looked to the seam guy who was the guy open a lot. Totally on AVP and Trent for not adjusting/reading the coverage. Mind boggling actually.

 

When the Bills were in their 3 WR set, they had modest success, BUT the Saints still doubled Owens and/or Evans EVERY play. The Saints had one safety back in this coverage. That safety did the best he could to disguise who he was going to double and then picked either Owens or Evans every play. So, one of the two in the 3 WR set was doubled each time. Trent never was able to process which one (Evans or Owens) to go to. Talk about frustrating. Add to this philospophy that Sean Payton had was that they didn't respect the slot WR at all. They took away the #1 and #2 WR's and were determined to let the non-playmaker TE's and Josh Reed beat them. It worked perfectly. They exposed multiple problems the Bills have. They obviously had no respect for Josh Reed, because they left the middle deep of the field wide open most of the time unless Owens or Evans ran patterns through there, which wasn't often.

 

Lastly, when the Bills were in the 3 WR set, NO had their CB that didn't have the double coverage behind him hauling ass backwards to make sure he didn't get beat deep. It wasn't a traditional backpedal, it was an almost turn and run kind of thing, to where if AVP was making adjustments, and Trent could read the doubling safety, they could have had Owens or Evans just run hard 7 yards and stop and they would have ate NO alive. Well, NO would have had to come out of that coverage. But AVP never adjusted and Trent never read it.

 

Lastly, and slightly off this topic was that Owens has every right to B word. AVP was awful, and Trent was bad. At the same time though, Owens really needs to also shut his mouth. For a guy that works out as hard as he does, he's very lazy. He doesn't run routes that great AND he almost NEVER comes back to the QB if the QB is flushed from the pocket. Every time Trent was flushed, I saw every other eligible Bill on the field fighting back toward the QB except Owens. T.O. pouted as soon as Trent was flushed out of the pocket and he simply quit on the play. Almost every time. He gave up.

 

Several frustrating things yesterday, and all correctable with the right coaches.

Great post.

 

What people don't get is that just because the safety isn't on him from the line of scrimmage, doesn't mean that TO isn't his sole responsibility.

[Dan]

Yes he was. Every play we had only WR's on the field. Yes, he most certainly was.

Well there ya have it. While great teams like Detroit and Houston can get their single good WR open each week and throw him the ball, the Bills need a three #1 WRs so that someone can get open.

[lets_go_bills]

Owens and Evans were open frequently. I too was there and saw it.

 

Yes, you can roll safeties to aid in coverage but quite frequently Evans and Owens were open. Trent never looked downfield, never let routes develop. Part of that is on the Line for doing such a poor job.

 

Those safeties started off deep but when Jackson was running well, those safeties cheated up, a lot. It looked like AVP was setting them up to send something over the top but it never transpired.

 

The truth is this: Evans/Owens is a top-3 WR tandem. Evans can out run anyone on the field and Owens is bigger and stronger than any DB that matches up on him. There is no excuse for these guy to not have at least 5 catches and 60 yards each, every game.

 

TO is so good that he hasn't been held off the stat sheet since he was a rookie, that should tell you something right there. NO's porous defense didn't "suddenly" come to life and lock down Evans and Owens. We beat ourselves.

 

That and Jauron is the worst coach EVER.

[FIVE]

Well there ya have it. While great teams like Detroit and Houston can get their single good WR open each week and throw him the ball, the Bills need a three #1 WRs so that someone can get open.

 

 

I agree with you I guess we need to be happy we were at least playing meaningful football in October last year, Because if we lose to the fins next week its over.

[stuckincincy]

Put the QB under center and give the quick hand off to an up back now and then. That messes with the DC and his players.

[AF88Bills]

the bills stopped themselves...since when does just the threat of doubling your biggest play makers preclude the QB from even looking at him....especially when your TE is running 1 yd out plays, and you have one of the slowest recivers in the NFL in Josh Reed.

 

I don't blame TO for slacking on his routes...how many times are you gonna bust your tail running down the field, then hustling back if you don't even get looked at?

 

Other teams ould would have success with TO and Lee Evans on the outside...the Bills somehow figure to screw it up

[AF88Bills]

Owens and Evans were open frequently. I too was there and saw it.

 

Yes, you can roll safeties to aid in coverage but quite frequently Evans and Owens were open. Trent never looked downfield, never let routes develop. Part of that is on the Line for doing such a poor job.

 

Those safeties started off deep but when Jackson was running well, those safeties cheated up, a lot. It looked like AVP was setting them up to send something over the top but it never transpired.

 

The truth is this: Evans/Owens is a top-3 WR tandem. Evans can out run anyone on the field and Owens is bigger and stronger than any DB that matches up on him. There is no excuse for these guy to not have at least 5 catches and 60 yards each, every game.

 

TO is so good that he hasn't been held off the stat sheet since he was a rookie, that should tell you something right there. NO's porous defense didn't "suddenly" come to life and lock down Evans and Owens. We beat ourselves.

 

That and Jauron is the worst coach EVER.

 

It's prretty apparent...TE is coached to take what he is given...and guess what, other teams either double our biggest playmakers, or act like they are going to double them...TE reads make him look to someone else...somehting the other team is happy to give us.

[Lv-Bills]

the bills stopped themselves...since when does just the threat of doubling your biggest play makers preclude the QB from even looking at him....especially when your TE is running 1 yd out plays, and you have one of the slowest recivers in the NFL in Josh Reed.

 

I don't blame TO for slacking on his routes...how many times are you gonna bust your tail running down the field, then hustling back if you don't even get looked at?

 

Other teams ould would have success with TO and Lee Evans on the outside...the Bills somehow figure to screw it up

Agreed. I'm just saying that's pretty much what our boys couldn't solve yesterday. It happened ALL game long.

 

I don't agree on TO's laziness though. Run your friggin routes every play.

[truth on hold]

good analysis Lv. if ever there was a time to use Evans and TO as a decoy it was the now infamous 4th and less than 1 where jauron once again turned into a pumpkin and choked during a critical late game decision. can u imagine the attention evans, owens and then reed would have gotten if they lined up wide on that play? NO would have been in a no-win situation -- double cover TO and Evans, cover Reed, and lose much needed run support; or put 8 in the box and try to stuff the 1/2 yard attempt? if im bills im almost hoping they put 8 in the box so i can hit TO or Evans for a quick 6. i bet NO or any other team knowing this doesnt stack the inside and all but concedes the 1st. it's why Pats are so effective picking up 4th and 1's even though their run game is poor; Moss and Welker, thats why

[Conch]

The truth is this: Evans/Owens is a top-3 WR tandem. Evans can out run anyone on the field and Owens is bigger and stronger than any DB that matches up on him.

 

This is not true at all. They are bottom-3 WR tandem. Why do I say that? Look at their stats, so far they suck. Lee hasn't had a good game in a year. TO has more drops than catches. How can you say he is a top WR if he cannot catch?

 

There is no excuse for these guy to not have at least 5 catches and 60 yards each, every game.

 

This is true. The problem is the QB, the o-line, rbs not picking up the blitz, the offensive coordinator, the head coach, the GM, the owner, our fans griping, the media, the other teams defensive scheme, the other teams dbs and safeties, the refs, the crowd, the wind, the sun, the rain, the snow, or the field. Everybody is at fault but Lee and TO.

[Lv-Bills]

good analysis Lv. if ever there was a time to use Evans and TO as a decoy it was the now infamous 4th and less than 1 where jauron once again turned into a pumpkin and choked during a critical late game decision. can u imagine the attention evans, owens and then reed would have gotten if they lined up wide on that play? NO would have been in a no-win situation -- double cover TO and Evans, cover Reed, and lose much needed run support; or put 8 in the box and try to stuff the 1/2 yard attempt? if im bills im almost hoping they put 8 in the box so i can hit TO or Evans for a quick 6. i bet NO or any other team knowing this doesnt stack the inside and all but concedes the 1st. it's why Pats are so effective picking up 4th and 1's even though their run game is poor; Moss and Welker, thats why

I'm guessing, but I'm pretty sure that's why the Bills stayed in that two WR set most of the time, because it took away the safeties from run support. I can't remember which drive it was, but I think it was the one out of the gate in the second half where Jackson was having success, because the Saints had their safeties so far back. I think that was the one. I don't even want to think about the 4th down call, hell I just wanted to get this off my chest. I thought about it the whole 9 hour drive home! LOL

 

I like this team.....I hate this staff.

[Erik]

Owens and Evans were open frequently. I too was there and saw it.

 

Yes, you can roll safeties to aid in coverage but quite frequently Evans and Owens were open. Trent never looked downfield, never let routes develop. Part of that is on the Line for doing such a poor job.

 

Those safeties started off deep but when Jackson was running well, those safeties cheated up, a lot. It looked like AVP was setting them up to send something over the top but it never transpired.

 

The truth is this: Evans/Owens is a top-3 WR tandem. Evans can out run anyone on the field and Owens is bigger and stronger than any DB that matches up on him. There is no excuse for these guy to not have at least 5 catches and 60 yards each, every game.

 

TO is so good that he hasn't been held off the stat sheet since he was a rookie, that should tell you something right there. NO's porous defense didn't "suddenly" come to life and lock down Evans and Owens. We beat ourselves.

 

That and Jauron is the worst coach EVER.

 

My question is...what kind of routes were they running to get open? Were they deep out and go routes that Trent didn't have time to complete? How many slants or in routes did T.O. and Evans run? It's easy to make one guy (Trent) the scapegoat but all the players need to be in position to win...whether Trent was looking at the checkdown too much or not, his time back there was limited back there. You need to put your playmakers in position to make plays regardless.

[stuckincincy]

Agreed. I'm just saying that's pretty much what our boys couldn't solve yesterday. It happened ALL game long.

 

I don't agree on TO's laziness though. Run your friggin routes every play.

 

I'd be instructing TO to run a bit of a route, any route, then cut back towards the LOS.

[mikey98277]

I think the biggest problem is, well I am not a coach, but I still can see every time TE audibles at the line, its then a run, I even heard early in the game when TE audibles the LB on the Saints started yelling its a run, its a run. If I can tell this without studying game film, the people getting paid to notice, definitely notice.

[Erik]

I think the biggest problem is, well I am not a coach, but I still can see every time TE audibles at the line, its then a run, I even heard early in the game when TE audibles the LB on the Saints started yelling its a run, its a run. If I can tell this without studying game film, the people getting paid to notice, definitely notice.

 

Jauron and co. say hi.

[mikey98277]

Jauron and co. say hi.

 

 

Fair enough, what I should have said is that the other teams will notice, DJ doesn't get it.

[Lv-Bills]

My question is...what kind of routes were they running to get open? Were they deep out and go routes that Trent didn't have time to complete? How many slants or in routes did T.O. and Evans run? It's easy to make one guy (Trent) the scapegoat but all the players need to be in position to win...whether Trent was looking at the checkdown too much or not, his time back there was limited back there. You need to put your playmakers in position to make plays regardless.

Again, agreed. The routes sucked if you asked me, because nothing was quick. Everything took time to develop, and that doesn't work if you are doubled. And then yeah, Trent seemed rushed, so everything worked in tandem to create failure. I'm only stating what I saw out there with my own eyes. No one was able to solve it, and that was the sickening part.