bbb Posted May 16, 2010 Posted May 16, 2010 all I'm saying is the girl doesn't care, there wasn't a pattern of sexual abuse in his history and it was 33 years ago. What is jail time going to accomplish? One of Jimmy Page's regular groupies was 15, Ted Nugent was so infatuated by the 16 year old he was banging he became her legal guardian--where's the outrage there? Woman does not see herself as a victim--never did. Polanski won't step foot on US soil again. There is exactly no reason why all this time and energy needs to be poured into an ancient crime. It's just petty. If the woman felt she was victimized it would be a different story. But she doesn't, so no crime as far as I'm concerned First you say it was a party at Nicholson's house, and I refute that, and you don't address that at all.........Then, you come up with some other wrong stuff: You say the woman (who was a 13 year old girl) doesn't and never did see herself as a victim. Did you read the police report? It sounded like she did when she was 13. Why would she sue him if she didn't see herself as a victim. Do you think the settlement has anything to do with her wanting the thing to drop off now (now that she has her money). You say there is no history of sexual abuse? You might want to read this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...irector-16.html I'm not saying Page and Nugent are right. I never heard of those stories. But, that sounds pretty consensual. Samantha Greiner (again read the report) said no a number of times, and was plied with qualludes and alcohol.
Astrojanitor Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 First you say it was a party at Nicholson's house, and I refute that, and you don't address that at all.........Then, you come up with some other wrong stuff: You say the woman (who was a 13 year old girl) doesn't and never did see herself as a victim. Did you read the police report? It sounded like she did when she was 13. Why would she sue him if she didn't see herself as a victim. Do you think the settlement has anything to do with her wanting the thing to drop off now (now that she has her money). You say there is no history of sexual abuse? You might want to read this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-...irector-16.html I'm not saying Page and Nugent are right. I never heard of those stories. But, that sounds pretty consensual. Samantha Greiner (again read the report) said no a number of times, and was plied with qualludes and alcohol. You're right, yesterday a woman came forward saying she was molested in 1985. Via a press conference. Maybe it happened and may it didn't--all we know is was convicted of statuary rape in the 70s. After Greiner won the civil case in 1988 she began to say the criminal case should be dropped. Was even pretty vocal about him being able to attend the academy award ceremony when The Pianist had all the nominations. So sure, I thought it happened during a party and it didn't. Putting Polanski in jail depends on what you feel the purpose of jail is. I think the only opinion that matters is Samantha Grenier's. If she thinks the charges should be dropped the charges should be dropped. Despite this new person's claims, Polanski has never been in trouble with the law and would not have set foot on US soil again. Maybe she feels the civil case is enough, maybe her empathy comes from knowing about his notoriously terrible life (wife and unborn child slaughtered by Manson family watched family wiped out while in a concentration camp). There's nothing to rehab, no prison as vengeance if grenier feels avenged, There's just no point in it. per groupiedirt.com...(first thing that popped up on google) "Jimmy Page is considered a legend when it comes to sex with groupies. We've heard that he hasn't given up his S&M ways and he likes his women to be submissive. We also hear that Jimmy is into role-playing and often asks his sexual conquests to pretend that they're little girls. And sometimes maybe those conquests really ARE little girls. Just ask Lori Maddox or Sable Starr, two of many females who had sexual relationships with Jimmy before they reached the age of 15." per activemusician.com "'Uncle Ted' also had a well-known predilection for underage girls, even going so far as becoming the legal guardian to a 17 year old Hawaiian girl in 1978, so he could continue to 'date' her with impunity." It was a sleazy time for show business. No one is arguing Polanski isn't sleazy or deserves to be pardoned or what he did was right. I'm saying jailing him is pointless when Grenier wants the charges dropped and when his only crime happened 33 years ago.
John Adams Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 You're right, yesterday a woman came forward saying she was molested in 1985. Via a press conference. Maybe it happened and may it didn't--all we know is was convicted of statuary rape in the 70s. After Greiner won the civil case in 1988 she began to say the criminal case should be dropped. Was even pretty vocal about him being able to attend the academy award ceremony when The Pianist had all the nominations. ... I'm saying jailing him is pointless when Grenier wants the charges dropped and when his only crime happened 33 years ago. The victims don't get to determine the punishments, neither to make them harsher nor make them more lenient. The reason is that you have no way of knowing what influences their personal opinion (bribes, personal anger, mental illness). He raped a little girl. The woman she's become has no say in his punishment.
Astrojanitor Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 The victims don't get to determine the punishments, neither to make them harsher nor make them more lenient. The reason is that you have no way of knowing what influences their personal opinion (bribes, personal anger, mental illness). He raped a little girl. The woman she's become has no say in his punishment. I think that's a pretty interesting point to discuss--how much say should a victim have in the punishment? I get your argument, but grenier's desire to keep the matter in civil court at least shows the desire to assigned blame. She wasn't paid off, she seems to feel the matter was dealt with. The irony is Polanski was arguably punished far worse than if he had just done time (he was only looking at a few months). Would keeping some other crimes in civil court, essentially, privatize felonies? Would it put the rich above the law? Even more than their ability to out lawyer defendants? To put one argument to rest: I don't condone Polanski (obviously) but I see no point in jailing him, especially when Grenier doesn't want it.
bbb Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 I believe it is The People vs. Roman Polanski, and that John Adams is right about her not having a say.........I'm not sure why you're saying she wasn't paid off. She was certainly paid. And, I do think that doing it any other way will bring about what JA alludes to - bribes, etc. I don't think that somebody should be able to run away from the law and that is what he did. It sends a good message that we won't just let bygones be bygones if we can get him here to serve time. PS The more I read about Jimmy Page, the more of a scumbag I think he is.
Beerball Posted May 17, 2010 Author Posted May 17, 2010 Sometimes you might need to try to put yourself into the victim's shoes, or in cases like this the parent of the victim. What this monster did is only one step further than Polanski went. California's "Chelsea's Law" calls for life imprisonment without the possibility of parole for any forcible sex crime against minors that includes one or more aggravating factors, including the victim's age or whether the victim was tied, bound or drugged. 'The defendant does not suffer from a psychotic disorder. He is simply a bad guy who is inordinately interested in young girls,' Dubois said, quoting a report from psychiatrist Matthew Carroll, who evaluated Gardner. Your mother, Cathy Osborne, knew what you were capable of and did nothing to protect us from you. She knew who you were after you violently beat and tried to rape that poor 13-year-old girl a decade ago," he said. "She harbored you, indulged you and put every child in our community at risk. ... Ms. Osborne, you have Chelsea's rape and murder and our pain on your soul.
John Adams Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 I think that's a pretty interesting point to discuss--how much say should a victim have in the punishment? I get your argument, but grenier's desire to keep the matter in civil court at least shows the desire to assigned blame. She wasn't paid off, she seems to feel the matter was dealt with. The irony is Polanski was arguably punished far worse than if he had just done time (he was only looking at a few months). Would keeping some other crimes in civil court, essentially, privatize felonies? Would it put the rich above the law? Even more than their ability to out lawyer defendants? To put one argument to rest: I don't condone Polanski (obviously) but I see no point in jailing him, especially when Grenier doesn't want it. Living free and having celebs dying to gobble your knob is being punished far worse than prison? That's nuts.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 17, 2010 Posted May 17, 2010 all I'm saying is the girl doesn't care, there wasn't a pattern of sexual abuse in his history and it was 33 years ago. What is jail time going to accomplish? One of Jimmy Page's regular groupies was 15, Ted Nugent was so infatuated by the 16 year old he was banging he became her legal guardian--where's the outrage there? Woman does not see herself as a victim--never did. Polanski won't step foot on US soil again. There is exactly no reason why all this time and energy needs to be poured into an ancient crime. It's just petty. If the woman felt she was victimized it would be a different story. But she doesn't, so no crime as far as I'm concerned Obviously you're not the father of a young daughter. Wow. That's all I can say.
Mr_Blizzard Posted May 18, 2010 Posted May 18, 2010 Or will this all go away because he is 'one of the greatest film directors of our time' The guy is a true freak.
BillsRUs Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 I'm not a lawyer, but I did see one on TV last night.
KD in CA Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Why'd I know this was how this was going to end?!? +1000 I would have bet on the Bills winning the Super Bowl before I'd have bet on a European country handing over a felon to the US instead of giving him back to another Euro state.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Obviously you're not the father of a young daughter. Wow. That's all I can say. I am a father and agree with him (Astro). Of course I will never want this to happen to anybody! Some of you guys (LA, etc...) should save all the drama. You have to live in the present and not stay attached. Attachment is nothing but misery at times and yours and others stance on this is adding to the misery. I actually commend the victim for not being attached to her body and letting that attachment become all consuming and overwhelming. That is a very hard thing to do considering how heinous the act was. She has obviuosly had some real good spiritual help!
Jim in Anchorage Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I am a father and agree with him (Astro). Of course I will never want this to happen to anybody! Some of you guys (LA, etc...) should save all the drama. You have to live in the present and not stay attached. Attachment is nothing but misery at times and yours and others stance on this is adding to the misery. I actually commend the victim for not being attached to her body and letting that attachment become all consuming and overwhelming. That is a very hard thing to do considering how heinous the act was. She has obviuosly had some real good spiritual help! You are just plain weird.
LeviF Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 You are just plain weird. Indeed. I don't know what I'd do without my body.
boyst Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Indeed. I don't know what I'd do without my body. I completely agree, I have had my body for as long as I can remember! ...expect for that time I lost it in the sock drawer.
DC Tom Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Way to go Switzerland. In Switzerland's defense, DoJ and LA County apparently !@#$ed up the extradition proceedings. Nice job, Justice. You've only had about twenty YEARS to get the extradition papers in order, you !@#$ing morons. And LA County...well, you couldn't successfully frame a guilty man (OJ) and couldn't get a child molestation conviction on a guy who publicly admitted he slept with twelve year old boys (Michael Jackson), so I guess this !@#$-up is just par for the course for you dipshits.
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