VJ91 Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Back before the salary cap and total free agency, teams used to draft QB's for the future. And I mean well into the future. Now I'm not talking about the franchise top QB's like Elway, Kelly and Marino. But 2nd round QB's like Drew Brees used to get drafted and brought along over the next 3 - 5 years slowly as back ups. No worries about losing them to free agency back then so the only decision was to either trade them or cut them down the line. The Chargers fell victim to the new era in the NFL with Brees. He needed a full 3 to 4 years before coming into his own, and by then, he was a free agent and the Chargers had already invested the number one pick in the '04 draft to get Rivers in the infamous trade of first pick Eli Manning to the Giants. So Brees sucked his first three seasons from '01 to '03, and his team sucked so bad they qualified for the number one pick in the '04 draft. Since Brees had not played up to their needs at that time, they went all in for Manning / Rivers. Lo and behold, while Rivers played back up his first season, Brees breaks out and becomes the QB he had the potential to become. But heading into the future and Brees' free agency, now the Chargers had to choose between the two. Rivers has turned out great, but Brees went down to New Orleans and has become even greater. Who knew?? If Big John Butler and A.J. Smith had known how good Brees would eventually be, they could have traded out of that number one pick and received extra choices, or, gone ahead and drafted Larry Fitgerald instead of Manning. Imagine Drew Brees today playing catch with Fitzgerald for the Chargers. Anyway, my long winded point comes down to this, can we really give up on Edwards if he doesn't continue doing as well as he has started these first two games?? Edwards is a third round pick - and maybe he might need 3 - 5 years to blossom like Brees needed.
IHFO Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 call me a homer but i think he's shown that he has the skills to be a good NFl QB so yea he gets the 5 years if he continues to progress
BuffaloRebound Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Brees is one of the few QB's in recent memory to dramatically improve his arm strength. He didn't have the velocity in his first couple of years to make the throws he makes now. Edwards needs to find out what Brees did to get more zip on the ball.
IHFO Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Brees is one of the few QB's in recent memory to dramatically improve his arm strength. He didn't have the velocity in his first couple of years to make the throws he makes now. Edwards needs to find out what Brees did to get more zip on the ball. You just said he's one of the few to do that..so how would Edwards? Edwards could do the exact same thing Brees has and his arm might not imporve at all since it is RARE like you said. And the arm strength argument is really getting old...he has it watch this last weeks game again he has plenty of arm.
Alaska Darin Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Brees is one of the few QB's in recent memory to dramatically improve his arm strength. He didn't have the velocity in his first couple of years to make the throws he makes now. Edwards needs to find out what Brees did to get more zip on the ball.
H2o Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Trent is an accurate passer and his arm strength is not the problem. His problem is having the patience to let the deeper routes develope and trusting that his receivers will make it to the opening that WILL be there. That extra half second can make all the world of difference, but that comes with time and building a chemistry with the guys on the field. He has to trust that the line is going to protect him, he has to trust that the WR is going to run the correct route, and he has to trust himself that he can get the ball there. I think Trent has shown major improvement thus far and against a 3-4 defense right out the gate.
Tcali Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Trent is an accurate passer and his arm strength is not the problem. His problem is having the patience to let the deeper routes develope and trusting that his receivers will make it to the opening that WILL be there. That extra half second can make all the world of difference, but that comes with time and building a chemistry with the guys on the field. He has to trust that the line is going to protect him, he has to trust that the WR is going to run the correct route, and he has to trust himself that he can get the ball there. I think Trent has shown major improvement thus far and against a 3-4 defense right out the gate. Although Trent doesn't have a strong arm I do agree with your assessment. The arm is strong enough.And combined with his accuracy and cool in the pocket -makes for a pretty darn good QB for a 3rd year guy. Yes-he needs to develope patience for the long routes...and he does need to improve some of his decision making re: throwing the ball away-solving the taking big losses/the wasting time on end of half drives/the opening himself up to the head shots.
TheLynchTrain Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Trent is an accurate passer and his arm strength is not the problem. His problem is having the patience to let the deeper routes develope and trusting that his receivers will make it to the opening that WILL be there. That extra half second can make all the world of difference, but that comes with time and building a chemistry with the guys on the field. He has to trust that the line is going to protect him, he has to trust that the WR is going to run the correct route, and he has to trust himself that he can get the ball there. I think Trent has shown major improvement thus far and against a 3-4 defense right out the gate. No offense H2O but it is spelled develop. I've seen about 20 different users on here adding an "e" at the end that makes absolutely no sense. You usually make pretty good points around here, but stuff like this throws off your arguments. Just wanted to clear that up.
BuffOrange Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 All the JP apologists brought this up with glee ad nauseum a few years ago. Brees is an exception. Just like Brady as a 6th round pick, and Bellichick as a retread coach, there are hundreds of examples of failure for every one of those guys. And lol @ the idea of a guy improving his armstrength after age 25.
Tcali Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 No offense H2O but it is spelled develop. I've seen about 20 different users on here adding an "e" at the end that makes absolutely no sense. You usually make pretty good points around here, but stuff like this throws off your arguments. Just wanted to clear that up. Sheesh i was doing it too..Thanks for the heads up.And I'm a language snob to boot.
BuffaloRebound Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 You just said he's one of the few to do that..so how would Edwards? Edwards could do the exact same thing Brees has and his arm might not imporve at all since it is RARE like you said. And the arm strength argument is really getting old...he has it watch this last weeks game again he has plenty of arm. Edwards has enough arm to be adequate/good. Brees is an elite QB now because he has enough arm to fit the ball in tight spaces all over the field.
LurkingSaintsFan Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Edwards has enough arm to be adequate/good. Brees is an elite QB now because he has enough arm to fit the ball in tight spaces all over the field. As I said in the other Brees thread, his success is due to the fact that he's in Sean Payton's system. If he'd gone to Miami, Oakland, or Detroit he'd just be an average QB.
kota Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Trent doesn't have a strong arm? Huh he threw a tight spiral on a rope 60 yards to Owens. LOL ok.
H2o Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 No offense H2O but it is spelled develop. I've seen about 20 different users on here adding an "e" at the end that makes absolutely no sense. You usually make pretty good points around here, but stuff like this throws off your arguments. Just wanted to clear that up. Because I spelled a word incorrectly? Or because I feel like I've seen some progression in Trent's game this year?
IHFO Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Trent doesn't have a strong arm? Huh he threw a tight spiral on a rope 60 yards to Owens. LOL ok. some people choose to be ignorant because they don't want to admit they are wrong about his arm strength...
benjamin Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Nice thoughts, and I appreciate the comparison. While others are right about arm strength, I don't think that it undermines your point that we need a little patience with TE. While no one has a crystal ball around here, it's hard not to be anxious. Still, I'm pretty enthused by what I see. (Wouldn't it have been nice if we picked someone other than Todd Collins to groom under Kelly a la Aaron Rodgers?) I think that this board would have imploded if you tried to make that argument about JP, though!
TheLynchTrain Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Because I spelled a word incorrectly? Or because I feel like I've seen some progression in Trent's game this year? No I don't have any issues with your argument. I'm just sick of seeing that word spelled wrong on this board and thought I'd clear it up. Again, nothing personal.
VJ91 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Posted September 26, 2009 All the JP apologists brought this up with glee ad nauseum a few years ago. Brees is an exception. Just like Brady as a 6th round pick, and Bellichick as a retread coach, there are hundreds of examples of failure for every one of those guys. And lol @ the idea of a guy improving his armstrength after age 25. I had no intention of grouping Lost-man in with Edwards in this thread. Lost-man was a first round draft choice, not a third rounder. Lost-man was supposed to be much better then anyone expected Edwards to be, right from the start. And Lost-man failed so big so fast, not a single one of the other 31 NFL teams thought he was worth bringing in to even compete for the back up role. Just forget about any QB's drafted in the first round for this take! I'm talking about guys like Frank Reich, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Green, Mark Bulger, Drew Brees, and the grandaddy of all late round QB's drafted, Tom Brady. (The guy he is most compared to today was also a 3rd rounder - Joe Montana!) So Brady and Montana ended up being super stars - obviously they are the only two to accomplish that feat being drafted so late. My point was that maybe the teams drafting the 2nd to 7th round QB's should think more seriously about sticking with them for more then 2 or even 3 seasons before dumping them and going on to the next "quck - fix" project through a higher round draft choice or a free agent. Brees is a perfect example of that.
Saudi Arabia Rob Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Back before the salary cap and total free agency, teams used to draft QB's for the future. And I mean well into the future. Now I'm not talking about the franchise top QB's like Elway, Kelly and Marino. But 2nd round QB's like Drew Brees used to get drafted and brought along over the next 3 - 5 years slowly as back ups. No worries about losing them to free agency back then so the only decision was to either trade them or cut them down the line. The Chargers fell victim to the new era in the NFL with Brees. He needed a full 3 to 4 years before coming into his own, and by then, he was a free agent and the Chargers had already invested the number one pick in the '04 draft to get Rivers in the infamous trade of first pick Eli Manning to the Giants. So Brees sucked his first three seasons from '01 to '03, and his team sucked so bad they qualified for the number one pick in the '04 draft. Since Brees had not played up to their needs at that time, they went all in for Manning / Rivers. Lo and behold, while Rivers played back up his first season, Brees breaks out and becomes the QB he had the potential to become. But heading into the future and Brees' free agency, now the Chargers had to choose between the two. Rivers has turned out great, but Brees went down to New Orleans and has become even greater. Who knew?? If Big John Butler and A.J. Smith had known how good Brees would eventually be, they could have traded out of that number one pick and received extra choices, or, gone ahead and drafted Larry Fitgerald instead of Manning. Imagine Drew Brees today playing catch with Fitzgerald for the Chargers. Anyway, my long winded point comes down to this, can we really give up on Edwards if he doesn't continue doing as well as he has started these first two games?? Edwards is a third round pick - and maybe he might need 3 - 5 years to blossom like Brees needed. Good analysis. Is Trent in the last year of his rookie contract? If his is, then I guess the Bills have some decisions to make similiar to the Chargers, except we've got no one on the bench.
jad1 Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 I don't know, who's to say that keeping Brees on the bench for a year didn't hurt or delay his development? SD watching Flutie bumble his way to a .500 record wasted a year of Brees' contract, which let him eventually walk as a FA. If they let Brees struggle and gain his bearings a season sooner, they could have made the decision to either keep him, saving draft picks they used for Rivers, or they could still have planned for Rivers and traded Brees. In the end, a QB either has the ability to play in the NFL or he doesn't. There are probably as many QBs who are successful after being protected as there are QBs who became successful after being thrown to the wolves. Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco are all successful QBs because they have the talent, ability and mindset to play QB in the NFL. Sticking them on the bench behind some journeymen or having them struggle through their inaugarial season isn't going to change that.
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