Obamacare: Buy insurance or go to jail!

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On the topic of the Gestapo: last night I was watching a three part series on the Gestapo that I'd tivo'd recently. It's amazing how utterly inept at a macro level the Gestapo was, and how small it was compared to, say, the NKVD. And yet, through effective propaganda, the German population as well as that of occupied Europe was cowed into snitching on one another. Sound familiar?

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

I think everyone should have "catastrophic" health insurance.

 

I also think healthy people should get a significant discount and the fatty mcbutterpant's of the world should pay per square inch.

 

I think hospitals/doctors should have to tell you in advance what things cost so that you have a choice on who gets your money.

 

I think there should be independent review boards to stop defensive medicine.

 

I think there should be significant Tort reform.

 

I think the FDA should significantly streamline the process for getting drugs to market and should let anyone diagnosed with a terminal illness/condition take whatever the !@#$ they want if they think it gives them a chance to survive.

 

I think the government should stay out of people's decision on whether to end their own life.

 

I think Medicare/MedicAid/the VA/should all be abolished.

 

I think the HMO Act of 1973 should be repealed in its entirety.

 

I think the easiest way to save money is to streamline administration but the lawyers won't let that happen.

 

I think employers should be cut completely out of the health care business.

 

I think all medical expenses should be tax free.

 

 

I would add a couple of things, and question the EPA deal because of the unscrupulous drug companies are liable to put something in that both cures us and kills us at the same time. Not sure the EPA does its job perfectly, but there has gotta be a way to do both. EPA approval, but no limits on what people can take.

 

Approval limits liability of the drug co. If not up to a standard the drug co is liable though not illegal.

[DC Tom]

On the topic of the Gestapo: last night I was watching a three part series on the Gestapo that I'd tivo'd recently. It's amazing how utterly inept at a macro level the Gestapo was, and how small it was compared to, say, the NKVD. And yet, through effective propaganda, the German population as well as that of occupied Europe was cowed into snitching on one another.

 

That's because the Gestapo was only a small part of the SS. Include the SD, Sipo, Orpo, and a few other abbreviations, and they become a lot more pervasive.

 

 

Sound familiar?

 

No

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

That's because the Gestapo was only a small part of the SS. Include the SD, Sipo, Orpo, and a few other abbreviations, and they become a lot more pervasive.

 

And yet, the assassination of heydrich shows how completely in the dark they could be. They relied on civilians as informers almost exclusively for effective intelligence. Another interesting thing: they showed an org chart. Something like 10 different "secret police" organizations under SS control.

[DC Tom]

And yet, the assassination of heydrich shows how completely in the dark they could be. They relied on civilians as informers almost exclusively for effective intelligence. Another interesting thing: they showed an org chart. Something like 10 different "secret police" organizations under SS control.

 

The benefits of being the smaller side of an asymmetric conflict. You can fail 99 out of 100 times and still be successful. The other side has to succeed 100% of the time. And the counterpoint to that is the Gestapo's roll-up of the Dutch resistance, which - minus the whole torture and execution and concentration camp thing - is the textbook case study for such a thing.

 

But aside from the Netherlands, and some success with convoy codes and radio traffic analysis...German intel pretty much sucked throughout the war. Not just in the SS.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

The benefits of being the smaller side of an asymmetric conflict. You can fail 99 out of 100 times and still be successful. The other side has to succeed 100% of the time. And the counterpoint to that is the Gestapo's roll-up of the Dutch resistance, which - minus the whole torture and execution and concentration camp thing - is the textbook case study for such a thing.

 

But aside from the Netherlands, and some success with convoy codes and radio traffic analysis...German intel pretty much sucked throughout the war. Not just in the SS.

 

 

Was that due to the top-down nature of German command structures?

[DC Tom]

Was that due to the top-down nature of German command structures?

 

 

 

See Shout Box. Then look up the word "aufstragtaktik". Then read this and this.

 

Then come back to me and apologize for being what I called you in the Shout Box. "Top-down nature of...command structures." As opposed to what? Bottom-up?

[Adam]

I think everyone should have "catastrophic" health insurance.

 

I also think healthy people should get a significant discount and the fatty mcbutterpant's of the world should pay per square inch.

 

I think hospitals/doctors should have to tell you in advance what things cost so that you have a choice on who gets your money.

 

I think there should be independent review boards to stop defensive medicine.

 

I think there should be significant Tort reform.

 

I think the FDA should significantly streamline the process for getting drugs to market and should let anyone diagnosed with a terminal illness/condition take whatever the !@#$ they want if they think it gives them a chance to survive.

 

I think the government should stay out of people's decision on whether to end their own life.

 

I think Medicare/MedicAid/the VA/should all be abolished.

 

I think the HMO Act of 1973 should be repealed in its entirety.

 

I think the easiest way to save money is to streamline administration but the lawyers won't let that happen.

 

I think employers should be cut completely out of the health care business.

 

I think all medical expenses should be tax free.

I may be naive about this, but if we do end up with subsidized or somewhat subsidized health insurance, what is all the whining about medicare/medicaid? Wouldn't they be replaced by this new plan? People want absolutely everything taken care of, I guess.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

See Shout Box. Then look up the word "aufstragtaktik". Then read this and this.

 

Then come back to me and apologize for being what I called you in the Shout Box. "Top-down nature of...command structures." As opposed to what? Bottom-up?

 

 

Top-heavy, I meant. Whereas the Americans utilized a more decentralized approach.

 

Damn you, DC Tom. DAMN YOU! Edit: By the time i got to the shoutbox, it was gone.

[DC Tom]

Top-heavy, I meant. Whereas the Americans utilized a more decentralized approach.

 

Damn you, DC Tom. DAMN YOU! Edit: By the time i got to the shoutbox, it was gone.

 

Actually, you've got that completely backwards. The American (Allied, really) was top-heavy. The German style of command was decentralized. Always has been...Prussian command style and practice since Frederick the Great has been to give junior officers wide latitude in deciding how to achieve assigned missions. The modern American system of command is based on that. Again...look up "auftragstaktik," and read the Citino book I recommended. Gives a decent grounding on the subject.

 

 

 

Note, though, that most of the Nazi bureaucracy was just that: bureaucracy, generally existing for it's own sake and no other purpose. Nazi German had three different field armies (Luftwaffe ground troops, the Wehrmacht, and the Waffen-SS), two different high commands, three different economics offices (Speer's, Himmler's, and Goering's), an uncountable number of different police forces (literally uncountable - the Waffen-SS included the Polizei Division drawn from the Orpo and Kripo, themselves related to the Totenkopfverbande, which were cross-pollinated with the Einsatzgruppen who also included some of the Sipo, all of whom may or may not answer to the NSDAP, OKW, individual Army Groups, the General Government in Poland, or any of a few branches of or individuals in the SS.

 

Nazi-leadership wasn't "top-heavy". Nazi bureaucrazy was incredibly byzantine.

[Alaska Darin]

Could you homos quick !@#$ing up the health care thread with Nazi talk? For !@#$s sake.

[Chef Jim]

Could you homos quit !@#$ing up the health care For !@#$s sake.

 

Dude, is it really their fault?

[UBinVA]

Could you homos quick !@#$ing up the health care thread with Nazi talk? For !@#$s sake.

 

 

LOL, Nazi talk

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Actually, you've got that completely backwards. The American (Allied, really) was top-heavy. The German style of command was decentralized. Always has been...Prussian command style and practice since Frederick the Great has been to give junior officers wide latitude in deciding how to achieve assigned missions. The modern American system of command is based on that. Again...look up "auftragstaktik," and read the Citino book I recommended. Gives a decent grounding on the subject.

 

Note, though, that most of the Nazi bureaucracy was just that: bureaucracy, generally existing for it's own sake and no other purpose. Nazi German had three different field armies (Luftwaffe ground troops, the Wehrmacht, and the Waffen-SS), two different high commands, three different economics offices (Speer's, Himmler's, and Goering's), an uncountable number of different police forces (literally uncountable - the Waffen-SS included the Polizei Division drawn from the Orpo and Kripo, themselves related to the Totenkopfverbande, which were cross-pollinated with the Einsatzgruppen who also included some of the Sipo, all of whom may or may not answer to the NSDAP, OKW, individual Army Groups, the General Government in Poland, or any of a few branches of or individuals in the SS.

 

Nazi-leadership wasn't "top-heavy". Nazi bureaucrazy was incredibly byzantine.

 

I'll look at that book, looks interesting. So was it the bureaucracy that caused the failure to act on D-Day by the Germans? I know Rommel was on leave. One thing that always puzzled me was why the Krauts didn't react in a timely manner.

[Max Fischer]

If Bush did this the ACLU would be all over his case and rightly so. But how silent they all seem to be now that a leftist is in the White House.

 

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ens...n_.html?showall

 

If you get sick and don't have insurance, I don't want to pay for your medical care through higher taxes, higher premiums and out-of-pocket expenses.

 

So, yeah, you should pay or go to jail.

[erynthered]

If you get sick and don't have insurance, I don't want to pay for your medical care through higher taxes, higher premiums and out-of-pocket expenses.

 

So, yeah, you should pay or go to jail.

 

 

.....so that in jail he'll get the medical care he needs and the tax payers still end up footing the bill.

 

Brilliant!!!

[Max Fischer]

I'll look at that book, looks interesting. So was it the bureaucracy that caused the failure to act on D-Day by the Germans? I know Rommel was on leave. One thing that always puzzled me was why the Krauts didn't react in a timely manner.

 

With possible exception of a few immediate decisions, overall, Rommel's "absence" had little to do with Germany's failure at Normandy. Hitler didn't give Rommel the reserved elite Panzer divisions because he was convinced that Normandy was a feint for the real invasion at Calais. Hitler and his gang of Yes-Men talked themselves into believing that since Calais was the most logical location, that any other possibility must be a trick.

 

The Germans were most effective (Poland, France, Holland, Scandinavia, Africa) when junior officers were allowed to think on their feet, only when Hitler essentially took command did their efficient system grind to a halt. See: Invasion of Russia.

 

Although the Allied forces had a much heavier bureaucracy (due to "power sharing" - even, at times with that idiot, De Gualle), Eisenhower's strength (most of the time) was letting good commanders take the initiative - and sometimes, unfortunately, not pulling the plug on the bad ones.

[Max Fischer]

.....so that in jail he'll get the medical care he needs and the tax payers still end up footing the bill.

 

Brilliant!!!

 

Ah, genius-boy returns.

 

So, you don't want to pay for their medical care? That's bloody brilliant.

[Chef Jim]

If you get sick and don't have insurance, I don't want to pay for your medical care through higher taxes, higher premiums and out-of-pocket expenses.

 

So, yeah, you should pay or go to jail.

 

And if you think the government forcing insurance on people is not going to increase taxes, raise costs and expenses you've not been paying attention to how your government operates.

[IDBillzFan]

Ah, genius-boy returns.

 

So, you don't want to pay for their medical care? That's bloody brilliant.

Unfortunately for you, he's right. You first say you don't want to pay for the medical costs of the uninsured, and then say they should go to jail if they're not covered, which is precisely where you will end up paying for the medical costs of the uninsured.

 

You may want to spend a few extra moments thinking these things through a little more, y'know?