Alaska Darin Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 It's true that, if your goal is tight pass coverage, a good pass rush really helps a lot. Hence the fact that many of the critics you mentioned would have preferred to see that 8th overall pick be used on a defensive lineman who could help that pass rush! That I wouldn't dispute. Outside of the Polian era, the BILLS draft strategy has been mostly head scratching.
Brand J Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 As far as your partial and one sided list of draft picks better than Marv's: To clearly see these mistakes (in both talent/position and character).... 2006 8th pick Whitner.....9th pick LB Ernie Simms 12th pick DT Holoti Ngata 3rd Pick-Vince Young 10th Pick-Matt Leinart 2007 12th pick Lynch...7th pick Adrian Peterson...11th pick LB Pat Willis 14th pick CB Darrel Reevis 1st overall pick-Jemarcus Russell 6th pick Laron Landry and these are just a few examples to show that there are other teams that miss on occasion besides the Bills, if you are going to list facts-list them all not just a ones to try to prove your point, which is pointless. I wouldn't call Marshawn Lynch a missed pick. The Whitner pick still stings though...
Webster Guy Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Moving Whit to FS worked really well. We lost 8 out of the last 10 games after San Diego and couldn't stop anyone. You're wrong about Scott, he'll stay at SS because he's better than Whit. We'll see. You're the genius.
ColdBlueNorth Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I never got the criticism of Whitner. I mean, if all of these critics figured that he would automatically come in and have 7 INT's a season...well, I guess the disappointment is more a result of unreasonable expectations on their part than any ability or lack thereof on the part of Whitner. And the critics never seem to understand the delicate balance on defense that exists with the D-Line and the secondary. "Blanket" coverage and a decent pass rush go hand-in-hand. Take away the D-line pressure, and you can only cover a guy for so long. It happened when his royal highness Tom Donahoe allowed Pat Williams to walk. The D was predicated on that mammoth D-tackle occupying multiple blockers and disrupting the pocket. After Williams walked, the whole defense imploded. No, the parts are not greater than the whole. Whitner may very well benefit from being moved to FS...but he would also benefit from a rejuvenated Williams, Schobel, Kelsay, and Stroud. I agree. Donte held a rookie secondary together for quite some time as a rookie himself, has served as captain on the team, played injured much of last year - and yeah, he didn't play well with the shoulder injury but he took one for the team. He's a football player pure and simple. All that being said, I like the way he is being used now as a free safety.
Alaska Darin Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Moving Whit to FS worked really well. We lost 8 out of the last 10 games after San Diego and couldn't stop anyone. And it was all because of one positional change on the back end. You're wrong about Scott, he'll stay at SS because he's better than Whit. We'll see. You're the genius. Yeah, he's awesome. That's why he's on his fourth team in 5 seasons and was part of a team that lost 8 of the last 10 games after they inserted him into the starting lineup.
Bill from NYC Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Bill, Marv's reputation as a GM will rest on one thing at the end of the day: Trent Edwards. After watching the Colts-Miami game, it hit me again (for about the 477th time, actually). This is a QB-driven league, and if you don't have a QB, you have almost no chance. Sure, you can pick outliers like the 2000 Ravens, but that's truly an exception. If Edwards turns into a big time QB, who Marv picked in the fourth round of the 2006 draft or the second round of the 2007 draft will be irrelevant when judging his record. It is great that you think this, but I simply don't agree. Yes, Edwards was a great pick. I also liked the MaGahee trade. But, the 06 draft is symptomatic of what is wrong with this team, and Levy presided of this mess, and the hiring of Jauron. Once again, I will throw in the obligatory "Marv seems like a nice guy," but he was over his head, too old, and never should have been hired as our GM. Jmo.
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 After a win against Tampa, we are going to praise Whitner as a #8 and Marv as a GM? If we beat the Saints, can I expect to hear how McCargo, Youboty and Simpson were steals in the draft, and that Jauron is a good coach? It's not like his big play came from picking off Byron Leftwich or something.
ColdBlueNorth Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 It's not like his big play came from picking off Byron Leftwich or something. Tough crowd... trolling again I see. Whitner is a good player. Was he worthy of so high a draft pick... I'm not so sure. Levy also populated our offensive line with guys the coaches went out of their way to jettison this offseason. Levy did find McGee and Yobouty (who looked much better last year). Like any GM he hit some and missed a lot, but he did stabalize things and gave us dead Dick who may have found a pulse this year.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Donte got his pick 6 then promptly returned the 6 by allowing Winslow to get over top for a TD minutes later. Donte is playing better, but he is still out of position at free safety and not impactful as a SS. He has a poor feel for zone coverage, is not rangy and isn't around the ball enough. And in all fairness, Donte started off well last year. When he got knicked up his play really dropped off, and he is not exceptionally durable so it's reasonable to expect more of the same. This Sunday is a huge test for Whitner at FS. My guess is Brees carves him to pieces.
ColdBlueNorth Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Donte got his pick 6 then promptly returned the 6 by allowing Winslow to get over top for a TD minutes later. Donte is playing better, but he is still out of position at free safety and not impactful as a SS. He has a poor feel for zone coverage, is not rangy and isn't around the ball enough. And in all fairness, Donte started off well last year. When he got knicked up his play really dropped off, and he is not exceptionally durable so it's reasonable to expect more of the same. This Sunday is a huge test for Whitner at FS. My guess is Brees carves him to pieces. We have yet to find a linebacker that can match up against the good tight ends we face particularly if we have both safeties over top on the outside receivers . I didn't know that was Whitner that flew in late on that play, but would not be too shocked. We have been getting burnt by that TE seam route for quite some time, but the Bills are not alone. Those routes are exactly what we are all expecting from Nelson down the road.
zazie Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Donte vs. Shobel in key safety stats: INTs: dead heat for the career so far Pick-6s: Dead heat again in key DE stats Shobel has him beat. maybe our best safety and bes character safety, is playing DE.
deep2evans Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Most interceptions are the result of poor throws based on pressure. Which should make it obvious to just about everyone why the BILLS have struggled in that particular facet of the game. He was beaten out by Scott? You have no idea what you're talking about. Whitner was moved to FS when Ko Simpson got hurt because putting Scott at SS with Whitner at Free was better than having Whitner out there with the undersized Jim Leonard. That was to combat Antonio Gates and the BILLS had success so they stuck with it. If Byrd ends up starting at free safety, you can guarantee that Scott is heading back to the bench. Which certainly explains why he was used as the slot guy his rookie season. Except the Ravens already said they would have picked Whitner if he were available. I don't know what the hell our "cap strategy" is but Whitner is pretty far down the list of guys who don't play to their number. If the BILLS could consistently pressure the QB we could probably get a better read on Whitner but this reactionary BS by people who obviously need a scapegoat for their lack of football acumen is really old. And boom goes the dynamite. Alaska Darin wins.
deep2evans Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Moving Whit to FS worked really well. We lost 8 out of the last 10 games after San Diego and couldn't stop anyone. You're wrong about Scott, he'll stay at SS because he's better than Whit. We'll see. You're the genius. This is what one would call proof that stats can be skewed to prove whatever !@#$ing point you want.
K-9 Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 And it was all because of one positional change on the back end. Yeah, he's awesome. That's why he's on his fourth team in 5 seasons and was part of a team that lost 8 of the last 10 games after they inserted him into the starting lineup. Check and mate. There is NO way the man from Webster can refute your logic without disagreeing with his entire premise. GO BILLS!!!
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Tough crowd... trolling again I see. Whitner is a good player. Was he worthy of so high a draft pick... I'm not so sure. Of course, you aren't sure. You don't know the difference between a troll and someone that has been on this board since it began and made a sarcastic jibe. Even with a smiley clue for the dumb and dumber. The Bills got ripped on righteously for their "genius" of trying to rebuild a team from its defensive secondary with a small, slow, and not-so-instinctive SAF. They passed on several players that are now considered franchise players for a guy that made 1 pick 6 against a terrible QB with maybe the slowest windup and delivery I've ever seen. In short: big !@#$ing deal.
dave mcbride Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Donte got his pick 6 then promptly returned the 6 by allowing Winslow to get over top for a TD minutes later. Donte is playing better, but he is still out of position at free safety and not impactful as a SS. He has a poor feel for zone coverage, is not rangy and isn't around the ball enough. And in all fairness, Donte started off well last year. When he got knicked up his play really dropped off, and he is not exceptionally durable so it's reasonable to expect more of the same. This Sunday is a huge test for Whitner at FS. My guess is Brees carves him to pieces. I don't disagree with your general thrust, but that was an improbably perfect pass (given the QB) and an even better catch. On every play, every receiver is 'open' if you treat 'open' in the most narrow sense. On that particular play, the coverage was pretty solid (I watched it numerous times). but Leftwich and Winslow made the improbable play.
Simon Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 Donte got his pick 6 then promptly returned the 6 by allowing Winslow to get over top for a TD minutes later. Donte is playing better, but he is still out of position at free safety and not impactful as a SS. He has a poor feel for zone coverage, is not rangy and isn't around the ball enough. And in all fairness, Donte started off well last year. When he got knicked up his play really dropped off, and he is not exceptionally durable so it's reasonable to expect more of the same. This Sunday is a huge test for Whitner at FS. My guess is Brees carves him to pieces. Agreed he didn't make a play he maybe could have, but the Bills had one safety high and Tampa ran twins right up the hash on the other side of the field. If he'd have left any quicker he'd have been bailing early on his primary responsibility. McGee has got to be better than that downfield, which is odd because historically that's been the strength of his game. And where the hell have you been? You've been missed.
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