Levy Found Great Character in Whitner...

[jahbonas]

Character was always one of the first things Marv Levy talked about when signing/drafting players. Almost every interview I have ever seen about him he mentioned character. Although, he must have known he was in his last season or based on his character issues, he wouldn't have drafted Marshawn Lynch. Maybe we can bring Marv back to run the off-season, since this past off season was a display in lack of character for quite a few Bills players and the several legal issues they encountered.

 

Thats Marv TALK...but in his actions he drafted Whitner (has had more arrests than interceptions) and Marshawn Lynch.....you want character you look at this year's draft of Maybin and Wood and levitre and Byrd etccc...funny this high quality high character draft at the 'meat n potatoes' positions occurs the same year Ralph finally moved Tom Modrak up into the inner circle...

 

Please never claim Marv drafts character when he selects Lynch with the 11th pick overall..

 

To clearly see these mistakes (in both talent/position and character)....

2006

8th pick Whitner.....9th pick LB Ernie Simms 12th pick DT Holoti Ngata

2007

12th pick Lynch...7th pick Adrian Peterson...11th pick LB Pat Willis 14th pick CB Darrel Reevis

 

For a team that trades up often in the draft...we wanted a RB and LB...and right in front of us are 2 AllPro future HOF type players at those positions in Peterson and Willis.....Marv sits on his hands and drafts the thug Lynch

Then in rd2 decidees to trade up and drafts the wrong LB.... (LB David Harris was picked 10 picks later)

 

Finally this year we trade up and it works...trade up for OG/OT Andy Levitre

 

 

Look at the guys this team has sacraficed extra picks to trade up for in rd1 & Rd2

Apparently guys 'we just had to have'":

Traded up for:

DE Ryan Denney Rd2

QB JP Losman Rd1

DT John MCargo Rd1

LB Posluzny Rd2 (2nd pick)

 

Huge mistakes and the major reason why no playoffs.....the one bright light now is it seems Modrak is driving the car rather than sitting in the back seat making suggestions

[manbeast]

After a win against Tampa, we are going to praise Whitner as a #8 and Marv as a GM?

 

If we beat the Saints, can I expect to hear how McCargo, Youboty and Simpson were steals in the draft, and that Jauron is a good coach?

I think all but one year(last Year) he got the most wins possible for the personnel he had. I know 90% of this board will disagree but are the lions not going to the superbowl this season because of their coaching.

[DrDawkinstein]

i cant believe that 3 years later, people are still misquoting Marv

 

he never talked about character meaning "choir boy" types

 

he ALWAYS referred to FOOTBALL CHARACTER. what that means is, guys who WANT to play football for the sake of playing football. not just for the highest paycheck, or the coolest city, or whatever other distraction. guys that DESIRE to come in and work hard at FOOTBALL. Regardless of what they do off the field.

 

Donte Whitner is a football player at heart

Marshawn Lynch is a football player at heart

 

Jason Peters and Willis McGahee... not so much.

 

look at the great Bills:

Kelly, Thomas, Reed, Bennett, Smith... those guys were HARDLY angels off the field, and if they played in todays "information age" media circus league, would probably be in more trouble than all of our players combined.

 

 

for the last effing time...

 

FOOTBALL CHARACTER =/= Choir Boy Character.

 

get over it

[manbeast]

After a win against Tampa, we are going to praise Whitner as a #8 and Marv as a GM?

 

If we beat the Saints, can I expect to hear how McCargo, Youboty and Simpson were steals in the draft, and that Jauron is a good coach?

McCargo has looked good this year Kyle Williams was a steal in the fourth round and Youboty could start alot of places in this league as a third rounder thats great Simpson was a fourth round pick and when he played our D-line sucked and some guy named Edwards in the third.

[Ramius]

I knew you'd love that post, being as you're the leader of the anti-Whitner fan club.

 

Donte could make it to Canton, and Bill would be at the enshrinement ceremony screaming "reach" holding a sign saying "bust."

[manbeast]

First of all Whitner's pick was an overthrow caused by Kyle Williams QB pressure. It wasnt like he jumped a route or did something extraordinary. I just watched the play again on TIVO and the ball was thrown right to him. I like the guy, but let's see the play for what it was.

 

Secondly, he was drafted to play strong safety and he got beat out by Scott, who was signed to back up Whitner. He can't play corner so there's only place left for the guy to play, and that's free safety. I personally think Byrd is going to be our starting FS next year, as he has better closing speed and he showed a real knack for INT's during a solid college career.

 

Whitner is valuable to the team as an average NFL utility safety, but he's kind of a tweener in terms of size and speed. I don't think he's that good in coverage, but I would rate him as slightly above average as a tackler.

 

In my opinion this guy would have been sitting there in the second round for us to get. If he demands a lot of money in his contract year and it doesn't fit our cap strategy for that year I would let him walk and i personally don't think we'd miss a beat.

 

I'm going as Whitner on Halloween this year. My girlfriend is going as an NFL tight end and I'm gonna chaser her around all night (and not catch her), my other buddy is going as a cop with a taser (it's a fake one thank god), and my brother is gonna drape himself with 400k worth of fake jewelry and be one of Whit's high character hangout buddies.

No. He beat every one else for FS because not only can he hit hard and be a tackling mashine he can cover also.

[manbeast]

character and 1.50 will get you coffee at dunkin donuts. Won't help you on Sunday afternoon. I remember us picking Mike Williams first overall instead of Bryant McKinney. Great character pick. How many probowls has Mckinney been in?

Marv didn't pick him and he had terrible character he took nothing seriously try again

[billsfreak]

After a win against Tampa, we are going to praise Whitner as a #8 and Marv as a GM?

 

If we beat the Saints, can I expect to hear how McCargo, Youboty and Simpson were steals in the draft, and that Jauron is a good coach?

I don't have a clue where you got any of that out of my post? All I said was that Character has always been a huge factor for Marv Levy as both a coach and a GM, all the way back to college and the CFL (as you would find out in the book he wrote.) I never said Whitner was a steal or praised him as a #8, or however you want to put it, just that it might have had some impact on him drafting him. There are draft picks every year that turn out better than where they were drafted and that turn out to not live up to the slot they were drafted in, in fact that is probably more than norm, than hitting the nail right on the head with the draft. Read people's posts as they are and quit reading so much into them for $*&^'s sake.

[Magox]

Bill, Marv's reputation as a GM will rest on one thing at the end of the day: Trent Edwards. After watching the Colts-Miami game, it hit me again (for about the 477th time, actually). This is a QB-driven league, and if you don't have a QB, you have almost no chance. Sure, you can pick outliers like the 2000 Ravens, but that's truly an exception. If Edwards turns into a big time QB, who Marv picked in the fourth round of the 2006 draft or the second round of the 2007 draft will be irrelevant when judging his record.

What about Tampa and Dilfer, or Washington and Rypien or Washington and Doug Williams?

 

All though those QB's for Washington did have good years during their SuperBowl runs.

 

But I do agree, those are the exceptions, it is a Quarterbacks league, without a doubt.

[BuffaloBill]

After a win against Tampa, we are going to praise Whitner as a #8 and Marv as a GM?

 

If we beat the Saints, can I expect to hear how McCargo, Youboty and Simpson were steals in the draft, and that Jauron is a good coach?

 

 

Amazing how a win changes everything.

[billsfreak]

Thats Marv TALK...but in his actions he drafted Whitner (has had more arrests than interceptions) and Marshawn Lynch.....you want character you look at this year's draft of Maybin and Wood and levitre and Byrd etccc...funny this high quality high character draft at the 'meat n potatoes' positions occurs the same year Ralph finally moved Tom Modrak up into the inner circle...

 

Please never claim Marv drafts character when he selects Lynch with the 11th pick overall..

 

To clearly see these mistakes (in both talent/position and character)....

2006

8th pick Whitner.....9th pick LB Ernie Simms 12th pick DT Holoti Ngata

2007

12th pick Lynch...7th pick Adrian Peterson...11th pick LB Pat Willis 14th pick CB Darrel Reevis

 

For a team that trades up often in the draft...we wanted a RB and LB...and right in front of us are 2 AllPro future HOF type players at those positions in Peterson and Willis.....Marv sits on his hands and drafts the thug Lynch

Then in rd2 decidees to trade up and drafts the wrong LB.... (LB David Harris was picked 10 picks later)

 

Finally this year we trade up and it works...trade up for OG/OT Andy Levitre

 

 

Look at the guys this team has sacraficed extra picks to trade up for in rd1 & Rd2

Apparently guys 'we just had to have'":

Traded up for:

DE Ryan Denney Rd2

QB JP Losman Rd1

DT John MCargo Rd1

LB Posluzny Rd2 (2nd pick)

 

Huge mistakes and the major reason why no playoffs.....the one bright light now is it seems Modrak is driving the car rather than sitting in the back seat making suggestions

 

You really need to read people's posts before you spout off and try to act intelligent. For one, I never said he drafted Lynch for character, in fact if you read my post, I was being sarcastic in pointing out just the opposite-as I stated Although, he must have known he was in his last season or based on his character issues, he wouldn't have drafted Marshawn Lynch

I bet two or three years ago you were along with 95% of Bills fans thinking it was a good move to go up and get Losman after he had a pretty good year, and was proclaimed as the future of the franchise. I sat at training camp and listened to him and Jim Kelly sitting side by side pretty much saying as much about J.P. I am sure you will deny it, but after reading your post that wouldn't be too surprising.

 

Finally this year we trade up and it works...trade up for OG/OT Andy Levitre-How do you know after just 2 games that it "finally worked" with Levitre? I surely hope it does, but if you base it on two games, than moving up to get Poz was brilliant, since after his first two games, he was leading the team in tackles and calling defensive plays before he broke his arm.

 

As far as your partial and one sided list of draft picks better than Marv's:

 

To clearly see these mistakes (in both talent/position and character)....

2006

8th pick Whitner.....9th pick LB Ernie Simms 12th pick DT Holoti Ngata 3rd Pick-Vince Young 10th Pick-Matt Leinart

2007

12th pick Lynch...7th pick Adrian Peterson...11th pick LB Pat Willis 14th pick CB Darrel Reevis 1st overall pick-Jemarcus Russell 6th pick Laron Landry

 

and these are just a few examples to show that there are other teams that miss on occasion besides the Bills, if you are going to list facts-list them all not just a ones to try to prove your point, which is pointless.

 

I would never attempt to say that Marv was a great GM, but to blame his 3 years as GM as the reason we haven't made the playoffs in over a decade is retarded, for lack of a better word. We don't even know for sure how much say Marv actually had in drafts and for all we know, Modrak might have recommended some or all of those picks, you don't know, I don't know, neither of us were in those war rooms on draft day.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

What about Tampa and Dilfer, or Washington and Rypien or Washington and Doug Williams?

 

All though those QB's for Washington did have good years during their SuperBowl runs.

 

But I do agree, those are the exceptions, it is a Quarterbacks league, without a doubt.

 

 

You make a good response to yourself at the end, and I think it is a fascinating point. Outside of Dilfer, the Redskin QBs had magnificent Super Bowl games, and Rypien had great stats all season in 1991, even though neither of them was a consistently great QB. I think the point is that more often than not, you need very good QB play to win championships; whether that means you need a HOFer or just someone who catches lightning in a bottle is another matter.

[Webster Guy]

Thats Marv TALK...but in his actions he drafted Whitner (has had more arrests than interceptions) and Marshawn Lynch.....you want character you look at this year's draft of Maybin and Wood and levitre and Byrd etccc...funny this high quality high character draft at the 'meat n potatoes' positions occurs the same year Ralph finally moved Tom Modrak up into the inner circle...

 

Please never claim Marv drafts character when he selects Lynch with the 11th pick overall..

 

To clearly see these mistakes (in both talent/position and character)....

2006

8th pick Whitner.....9th pick LB Ernie Simms 12th pick DT Holoti Ngata

2007

12th pick Lynch...7th pick Adrian Peterson...11th pick LB Pat Willis 14th pick CB Darrel Reevis

 

For a team that trades up often in the draft...we wanted a RB and LB...and right in front of us are 2 AllPro future HOF type players at those positions in Peterson and Willis.....Marv sits on his hands and drafts the thug Lynch

Then in rd2 decidees to trade up and drafts the wrong LB.... (LB David Harris was picked 10 picks later)

 

Finally this year we trade up and it works...trade up for OG/OT Andy Levitre

 

 

Look at the guys this team has sacraficed extra picks to trade up for in rd1 & Rd2

Apparently guys 'we just had to have'":

Traded up for:

DE Ryan Denney Rd2

QB JP Losman Rd1

DT John MCargo Rd1

LB Posluzny Rd2 (2nd pick)

 

Huge mistakes and the major reason why no playoffs.....the one bright light now is it seems Modrak is driving the car rather than sitting in the back seat making suggestions

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

First of all Whitner's pick was an overthrow caused by Kyle Williams QB pressure. It wasnt like he jumped a route or did something extraordinary. I just watched the play again on TIVO and the ball was thrown right to him. I like the guy, but let's see the play for what it was.

 

Secondly, he was drafted to play strong safety and he got beat out by Scott, who was signed to back up Whitner. He can't play corner so there's only place left for the guy to play, and that's free safety. I personally think Byrd is going to be our starting FS next year, as he has better closing speed and he showed a real knack for INT's during a solid college career.

 

Whitner is valuable to the team as an average NFL utility safety, but he's kind of a tweener in terms of size and speed. I don't think he's that good in coverage, but I would rate him as slightly above average as a tackler.

 

In my opinion this guy would have been sitting there in the second round for us to get. If he demands a lot of money in his contract year and it doesn't fit our cap strategy for that year I would let him walk and i personally don't think we'd miss a beat.

 

I'm going as Whitner on Halloween this year. My girlfriend is going as an NFL tight end and I'm gonna chaser her around all night (and not catch her), my other buddy is going as a cop with a taser (it's a fake one thank god), and my brother is gonna drape himself with 400k worth of fake jewelry and be one of Whit's high character hangout buddies.

 

The one thing we would miss with Whitner is that he is one of the few team leaders we have. In that sense Marv make a good pick. What I don't really understand is why all the emphasis on character doesn't also get us a lot of leadership from other players. Leadership is part of character. We have a bunch of high quality character players that are kind of quiet models for other players. TO may not be what one would associate with high character but he is a leader in that he intensely wants to win (and look good himself doing it) and people like TE are afraid to let him down. The most important thing about character in a football sense is that you are a person that other people are afraid to let down. Whitner has made other players accountable but he needs to step up his play to be able to do it long term.

[Webster Guy]

No. He beat every one else for FS because not only can he hit hard and be a tackling mashine he can cover also.

Tell me who he beat out for FS? And don't say Ko Simpson. Byrd was so far behind in getting to camp he had no chance.

 

If you think the Whit can cover you arent watching the same games I am. In fact, they moved him to FS for that reason. Tight ends were smoking the guy.

[StupidNation]

First of all Whitner's pick was an overthrow caused by Kyle Williams QB pressure. It wasnt like he jumped a route or did something extraordinary. I just watched the play again on TIVO and the ball was thrown right to him. I like the guy, but let's see the play for what it was.

 

Secondly, he was drafted to play strong safety and he got beat out by Scott, who was signed to back up Whitner. He can't play corner so there's only place left for the guy to play, and that's free safety. I personally think Byrd is going to be our starting FS next year, as he has better closing speed and he showed a real knack for INT's during a solid college career.

 

Whitner is valuable to the team as an average NFL utility safety, but he's kind of a tweener in terms of size and speed. I don't think he's that good in coverage, but I would rate him as slightly above average as a tackler.

 

In my opinion this guy would have been sitting there in the second round for us to get. If he demands a lot of money in his contract year and it doesn't fit our cap strategy for that year I would let him walk and i personally don't think we'd miss a beat.

 

I'm going as Whitner on Halloween this year. My girlfriend is going as an NFL tight end and I'm gonna chaser her around all night (and not catch her), my other buddy is going as a cop with a taser (it's a fake one thank god), and my brother is gonna drape himself with 400k worth of fake jewelry and be one of Whit's high character hangout buddies.

 

I agree with everything you said. I still think he played pretty good last game, and not because of the INT, but because of his tackles. He hasn't shown me enough to justify his presence on the field as a starter, but a starter by default. It is also funny how there were match-ups in NE where Whitner wasn't even on the field and it was Byrd and Scott.

[Mr. WEO]

McCargo has looked good this year Kyle Williams was a steal in the fourth round and Youboty could start alot of places in this league as a third rounder thats great Simpson was a fourth round pick and when he played our D-line sucked and some guy named Edwards in the third.

Youboty can't even start here.

[Red]

I never got the criticism of Whitner.

 

I mean, if all of these critics figured that he would automatically come in and have 7 INT's a season...well, I guess the disappointment is more a result of unreasonable expectations on their part than any ability or lack thereof on the part of Whitner.

 

And the critics never seem to understand the delicate balance on defense that exists with the D-Line and the secondary. "Blanket" coverage and a decent pass rush go hand-in-hand. Take away the D-line pressure, and you can only cover a guy for so long.

 

It happened when his royal highness Tom Donahoe allowed Pat Williams to walk. The D was predicated on that mammoth D-tackle occupying multiple blockers and disrupting the pocket. After Williams walked, the whole defense imploded.

 

No, the parts are not greater than the whole. Whitner may very well benefit from being moved to FS...but he would also benefit from a rejuvenated Williams, Schobel, Kelsay, and Stroud.

[Orton's Arm]

I never got the criticism of Whitner. . . . [T]he critics never seem to understand the delicate balance on defense that exists with the D-Line and the secondary. "Blanket" coverage and a decent pass rush go hand-in-hand. Take away the D-line pressure, and you can only cover a guy for so long.

It's true that, if your goal is tight pass coverage, a good pass rush really helps a lot. Hence the fact that many of the critics you mentioned would have preferred to see that 8th overall pick be used on a defensive lineman who could help that pass rush!

[Alaska Darin]

First of all Whitner's pick was an overthrow caused by Kyle Williams QB pressure. It wasnt like he jumped a route or did something extraordinary. I just watched the play again on TIVO and the ball was thrown right to him. I like the guy, but let's see the play for what it was.

Most interceptions are the result of poor throws based on pressure. Which should make it obvious to just about everyone why the BILLS have struggled in that particular facet of the game.

Secondly, he was drafted to play strong safety and he got beat out by Scott, who was signed to back up Whitner.

He was beaten out by Scott? You have no idea what you're talking about. Whitner was moved to FS when Ko Simpson got hurt because putting Scott at SS with Whitner at Free was better than having Whitner out there with the undersized Jim Leonard. That was to combat Antonio Gates and the BILLS had success so they stuck with it.

He can't play corner so there's only place left for the guy to play, and that's free safety. I personally think Byrd is going to be our starting FS next year, as he has better closing speed and he showed a real knack for INT's during a solid college career.

If Byrd ends up starting at free safety, you can guarantee that Scott is heading back to the bench.

Whitner is valuable to the team as an average NFL utility safety, but he's kind of a tweener in terms of size and speed. I don't think he's that good in coverage, but I would rate him as slightly above average as a tackler.

Which certainly explains why he was used as the slot guy his rookie season.

In my opinion this guy would have been sitting there in the second round for us to get. If he demands a lot of money in his contract year and it doesn't fit our cap strategy for that year I would let him walk and i personally don't think we'd miss a beat.

Except the Ravens already said they would have picked Whitner if he were available. I don't know what the hell our "cap strategy" is but Whitner is pretty far down the list of guys who don't play to their number. If the BILLS could consistently pressure the QB we could probably get a better read on Whitner but this reactionary BS by people who obviously need a scapegoat for their lack of football acumen is really old.