BB Fan 4 LIFE Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 The Bills have allowed a league-high four TD catches to tight ends after two games. How do we stop this trend? - Talk amongst yaselvs.
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Stop singling up Keith Ellison on linebackers? Guy has been GREAT in run support, which has been a pleasant surprise, but he can't cover athletic tight ends worth a lick.
Glass To The Arson Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I'm loving Ellison right now. He could use help in the passing defense.
clownments22 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 The Bills have allowed a league-high four TD catches to tight ends after two games. How do we stop this trend? - Talk amongst yaselvs. I'm not sure either, and would love to hear others opinions on this subject. Every game, the announcers are like "the bills are trying to cover a tight end with a linebacker... the tight end is gonna win that match up every time!" Does anyone else notice that? Who are you supposed to cover the tight ends with if not the linebackers, or is it just that our line backers aren't good at that, or is it the fact that we run a 4-3 defense, so we have one less?
BillsFan74 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I'm loving Ellison right now. He could use help in the passing defense. I can't wait until we replace him with an NFL caliber linebacker
Thoner7 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I can't wait until we replace him [Ellison] with an NFL caliber linebacker Agree 100% And in my opinion 2-3 nice tackles at the LOS (something great LBs do multiple times a game) does not mean Ellison has been great in run support. Ellison has been average in run support IMO.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Personaly I think it's a bit of poor talent at the lb position let's be real both ellison and mitchell are limited in their respective ability. While Im not a big fan of Poz him being injured doesn't help the situation at lb. The group is trying hard, but it's far from a talent laden group. I also think what we're seeing around the league is just the evolution of the te position. They're wr's in 6+ 240+lb bodies. Ben Watson,Winslow are 2 of the fastest te's in the league, and when Watson isn't injured is a damn good player. Same goes without saying for Winslow. Look no further than the colts this past monday night. Dallas Clark 80 yard touchdown. The average lb isn't going to be able to cover these guys, who can really expect below average lb's to accomplish that?. What they should do is try to throw off the routes hit them as they get off the line. More interior pressure. A good te is always going to be a weakness against almost any scheme. Especially the cover 2, or 3-4. What we should be doing is trying to bump these guys off their routes, some quick interior pressure, to neutralize the ability to drop the ball down the seem.
JJBuffalo Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I'm not sure either, and would love to hear others opinions on this subject. Every game, the announcers are like "the bills are trying to cover a tight end with a linebacker... the tight end is gonna win that match up every time!" Does anyone else notice that? Who are you supposed to cover the tight ends with if not the linebackers, or is it just that our line backers aren't good at that, or is it the fact that we run a 4-3 defense, so we have one less? Safeties or Corners. I remember Champ Bailey following around Gates. We probably will not be in our base 4-3 set much this week. I've noticed one of our formations has Byrd, Whitner, and Scott on the field all at once. I cant remember if Corner was on the field or not and this wasnt in the last couple minutes of the game either.
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 put scott on shockey not a bad idea but at the expense of the run defense? Not really worth it. I'll live with the passes a te will generally catch over the course of a game, than deal with a weakened run defense that will flat out wear you down
DrDawkinstein Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 a safety is the right choice, but not Scott. maybe whitner, and put Byrd at FS?
SuperKillerRobots Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Safeties or Corners. I remember Champ Bailey following around Gates. We probably will not be in our base 4-3 set much this week. I've noticed one of our formations has Byrd, Whitner, and Scott on the field all at once. I cant remember if Corner was on the field or not and this wasnt in the last couple minutes of the game either. I think the move might be to go nickle with 3 safeties and Scott on Shockey, but that only really works in obvious passing downs. I have a feeling they are going to try to keep Scott on him all day playing man with safety help.
H2o Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Put Scott on him. Last year Scott did a tremendous job against Gonzales. I think he could handle it.
murra Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I'm loving Ellison right now. You do know that being in the tops of the league in tackles doesn't mean you're the best, right. It's similar to +/- in hockey. Yeah, you were there when something happened. If they had a QB rating type deal for linebackers, where they equated total tackles, where the tackles occurred, what down they happened on, and how many times you missed a tackle, and how many times your man scored, I'm quite sure that your love affair with Ellison would cease to exist... of course, they don't have that stat, and instead people will continue to think that London Fletcher is one of the best MLB in football.
Magox Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You do know that being in the tops of the league in tackles doesn't mean you're the best, right. It's similar to +/- in hockey. Yeah, you were there when something happened. If they had a QB rating type deal for linebackers, where they equated total tackles, where the tackles occurred, what down they happened on, and how many times you missed a tackle, and how many times your man scored, I'm quite sure that your love affair with Ellison would cease to exist... of course, they don't have that stat, and instead people will continue to think that London Fletcher is one of the best MLB in football. well if you watched with your eyes you will see that he has been more stout against the run, he's been making more tackles near the line of scrimmage and has been hitting opponents harder. In regards to the run game, he's done good.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 well if you watched with your eyes you will see that he has been more stout against the run, he's been making more tackles near the line of scrimmage and has been hitting opponents harder. In regards to the run game, he's done good. Agree 100% Ellison has been really good so far this year. Also, on the TE problem, go back and check out the games. I'm pretty sure Whitner and McGee were covering Winslow when he scored that 42-yard TD last game, and Buggs was on Watson for his first TD in the New England game. And during the pre-season, Scott was getting burned by a lot of TE's. Placing the blame at Ellison's feet alone is unfair. edit: looks like Ellison was covering on BOTH TD's to Watson, my bad; but my point still holds true-- he's played well this year.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 The Bills have allowed a league-high four TD catches to tight ends after two games. How do we stop this trend? - Talk amongst yaselvs. Send him a case of Patron. Today. well if you watched with your eyes you will see that he has been more stout against the run, he's been making more tackles near the line of scrimmage and has been hitting opponents harder. In regards to the run game, he's done good. Whether you believe this (as I do) you can throw the stats out the window. If you watch carefully you can see that Ellison has been very good in run support. I think the difference in play between this year and last is that the defensive front four is playing run much better. I believe it is because Bill Kollar is gone and Bob Sanders has taken over and added a few more wrinkles to the scheme. Run defense starts with the D-line and goes from there. I also agree that (like almost all NFL players) both Ellison and Mitchell have limitations to their games, as well as strengths. And I think that there are young linebackers on the roster who will eventually supplant these two.
Hardy Pyle Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 We used Winfield to stop Gonzalez. Reggie on Shockey. Or possibly Whitner if we want someone more physical.
murra Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 well if you watched with your eyes you will see that he has been more stout against the run, he's been making more tackles near the line of scrimmage and has been hitting opponents harder. In regards to the run game, he's done good. Good? Explain/prove. Just because the line gets a push and his side gets the rush doesn't mean hes good. He's definitely been adequate. This thread is about his suspect pass coverage, which I believe has been more important to the failure of the defense than the mild success he's had stuffing players that have already been slowed by Stroud and Williams.
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