The Senator Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I aggree with passing on Runyon due to age and micro-fracture surgery. Walker is fat lazy slow and was grossly overpaid. If the Bills had not paid him and Dockery so much money foolishly(thanks Marv), Peters is probably still here with the same contract he had. ...and on a pace to give up 32 sacks.
birdog1960 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 True as I looked at this issue and posted in another thread some time ago. If you go back 5 years the Bills have averaged towards the HIGH SIDE OF THE BOTTOM QUARTILE OF THE LEAGUE. However, they also did not have an elite QB and we all know they got their LT for RT money for most of that span. Also deflating their salary spend is youth. Teams with more vets will by contract spend more. Finally, what is also hidden is what the Bills may have been willing to pay in the form of additioanl bonuses and performance awards that were not triggered. I would not call Ralph cheap as much as I might call him prudent. the only area where I would like him to spend more is in coaching. Strange. Thats about where we finished those years and thats not taking below average signing bonuses which are cap unfavorable and inflate payroll or the cash to cap philosophy into account.
The Senator Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 The problem with the organization is that they have not been able to assemble a quality front office. The Packers GM is Ted Thompson. The Colts GM is Bill Polian. The Patriots GM is mostly BB. The Ravens GM is Ossie Newsome. These are all quality personnel people who know how to build a successful franchise. The Chiefs recently hired the primary personnel man of the Pats, Scot Pioli, to take over the struggling Chiefs' operation. The head of the Bills football operation is a marketing specialist. Two of the most influential members in the organization are Littman and Oberdofer (sic) finance people. There should be no surprise why the Bills rank 29 out of 32 in wins over the past decade. Actually, while Belicheat* had final say over player acquisitions, for drafting and free agency he* relied mostly on Pioli, who built the cheatriettes* Superbowl* teams*. We all know of Polian's genius, but I really don't see a vast difference in Polian's background before Ralph made him GM, and Brandon's. (Or, for that matter, between Brandon's and 30-year-old Theo Epstein when he led the Red Sox to their first World Series title since 1918 in '04.) And, while Littman and Overdorf, as financial guys, are certainly involved in contract negotiations, John Guy and Tom Modrak are still the most influential of Brandon's assistants regarding player personnel - of course with the help of Paul Lancaster, Doug Majeski, Rashaan Curry, Brian Fisher, Brad Forsyth, Shawn Heinlen, Buddy Nix, Matt Hand, etc. In other words - I'm not sure what your point is, but since this is only Brandon's 2nd year as 'GM', I don't think you have one. At least not a valid one if you're trying to hang the last decade on Brandon. He may well turn out to be another Polian - let's wait and see.
The_Philster Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 History has shown, including recent history, that Ralph has been more than willing to shell out big money for players so calling Ralph cheap when it comes to signing players is rather idiotic to say the least.
San-O Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Welcome to the board - why just speculate that Wilson is cheap? Do you know that Runyon is healthy? Do you know that he even expressed any interest in being a part of the Bills team? He may also just be slowed by time and injury. Keep in mind the no huddle requires players to be in very goof "football" shape. How long will it take Runyon to get there? It could be several weeks so what good does it do to sign him if so. Try not to simply jump on the "Ralph is cheap" bandwagon without considering all of the other possibilities. Wilson IS cheap. The sign is blue, and water is wet.
The_Philster Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Wilson IS cheap. The sign is blue, and water is wet. when it comes to players, there's way too much proof that he's not
Whites Bay Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Jesus....I've been lurking on this board for a good 4-5yrs. now and I can't billieve I'm wasting my first post on this thread.... Google is your friend OP 1. Google how much my Ralph spends on players compared to the rest of league. Not just this year either....go back a few "The problem with the organization is that they have not been able to assemble a quality front office. The Packers GM is Ted Thompson. The Colts GM is Bill Polian. The Patriots GM is mostly BB. The Ravens GM is Ossie Newsome. These are all quality personnel people who know how to build a successful franchise. The Chiefs recently hired the primary personnel man of the Pats, Scot Pioli, to take over the struggling Chiefs' operation. The head of the Bills football operation is a marketing specialist. Two of the most influential members in the organization are Littman and Oberdofer (sic) finance people. There should be no surprise why the Bills rank 29 out of 32 in wins over the past decade." 2. Google how long Russ has been our GM. Are you seriously going to blame him for the past 10 years JOHN? I actually think he's done a pretty ok job so far (psst... google him!!!) 3. Google is your friend. It will save you lot of trouble and at the same time & embarrassment. 4. Here's an idea...lets sign Bruce to help the pass rush & LT for LB depth... 5. ...Nevermind...my keyboard is running out of ink.. Welcome aboard! Don't worry. Dumber things will come up. The trick is not being the one to start a thread on 'em.
BuffaloBorn1960 Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 I can't stand it; will Wilson ever spend some money on this team? Runyon is a proven tough vet, but instead we sign a no-name unproven rookie. The rebuilding project that will never, never, never, end. Someone call Commander Tom..... Parole violation on TBD..... Marve cleanup on aisle 2
birdog1960 Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Jesus....I've been lurking on this board for a good 4-5yrs. now and I can't billieve I'm wasting my first post on this thread.... Google is your friend OP 1. Google how much my Ralph spends on players compared to the rest of league. Not just this year either....go back a few "The problem with the organization is that they have not been able to assemble a quality front office. The Packers GM is Ted Thompson. The Colts GM is Bill Polian. The Patriots GM is mostly BB. The Ravens GM is Ossie Newsome. These are all quality personnel people who know how to build a successful franchise. The Chiefs recently hired the primary personnel man of the Pats, Scot Pioli, to take over the struggling Chiefs' operation. The head of the Bills football operation is a marketing specialist. Two of the most influential members in the organization are Littman and Oberdofer (sic) finance people. There should be no surprise why the Bills rank 29 out of 32 in wins over the past decade." 2. Google how long Russ has been our GM. Are you seriously going to blame him for the past 10 years JOHN? I actually think he's done a pretty ok job so far (psst... google him!!!) 3. Google is your friend. It will save you lot of trouble and at the same time & embarrassment. 4. Here's an idea...lets sign Bruce to help the pass rush & LT for LB depth... 5. ...Nevermind...my keyboard is running out of ink.. Google me this. It's not wilson, it's not the front office and most of the player positions have turned over several times in 10 years. Who do you blame for the consistent failure over that time period? Maybe it's the fault of the fans who complain about it.
oak tree 12 Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I can't stand it; will Wilson ever spend some money on this team? Runyon is a proven tough vet, but instead we sign a no-name unproven rookie. The rebuilding project that will never, never, never, end. i guess the rest of the league is cheap also seeing that nobody seems interested in him including his old team who lost their RT for the year. get freaking real. he is a 35 year old player coming off a very serious injury and surgery. if he was healthy he would be playing. you dont know what you are talking about and the old Ralph is cheap crap is total BS especially in this case!
Big Turk Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I can't stand it; will Wilson ever spend some money on this team? Runyon is a proven tough vet, but instead we sign a no-name unproven rookie. The rebuilding project that will never, never, never, end. Yeah, he is so good that no team wants him...
Conch Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Meredith sounds like a young version of Butler. I like that. If Scott is adequate, Butler comes back next year, Bell continues to improve, Meredith turns the corner and challenges next year, Wood, Levitre and Hangartner continue to produce, the Bills will have a young, talented deep o-line next year. This is a good move. Some teams draft boards had Meredith as the best G available in the draft. But he has been moved to tackle so he should fit in on this team where no one plays a position they were used to. It is not always about spending the most money as opposed to acquiring young talent.
JohnC Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Jesus....I've been lurking on this board for a good 4-5yrs. now and I can't billieve I'm wasting my first post on this thread.... Google is your friend OP 1. Google how much my Ralph spends on players compared to the rest of league. Not just this year either....go back a few "The problem with the organization is that they have not been able to assemble a quality front office. The Packers GM is Ted Thompson. The Colts GM is Bill Polian. The Patriots GM is mostly BB. The Ravens GM is Ossie Newsome. These are all quality personnel people who know how to build a successful franchise. The Chiefs recently hired the primary personnel man of the Pats, Scot Pioli, to take over the struggling Chiefs' operation. The head of the Bills football operation is a marketing specialist. Two of the most influential members in the organization are Littman and Oberdofer (sic) finance people. There should be no surprise why the Bills rank 29 out of 32 in wins over the past decade." 2. Google how long Russ has been our GM. Are you seriously going to blame him for the past 10 years JOHN? I actually think he's done a pretty ok job so far (psst... google him!!!) 3. Google is your friend. It will save you lot of trouble and at the same time & embarrassment. 4. Here's an idea...lets sign Bruce to help the pass rush & LT for LB depth... 5. ...Nevermind...my keyboard is running out of ink.. 716, I'm not sure what your point is? . My point is very simple. The Bills have struggled for a decade. That is reflected in a miserable ranking of 29 out of 32 for the past decade. The team's record over that period was 60-84. The winning percentage for the decade is .417. The football operation has done a horrible job for an extended period of time. How can you dispute that point? I have never said that Brandon is to be blamed for their terrible record for such a long period of time. That is absurd. Are you aware that John Guy and Tom Modrak have been with the front office, Donahoe hires, during this extended mediocre run? My main point in the prior posting is that good teams have quality front offices. The Bills don't have it. That certainly is a major factor why the franchise has not participated in the playoffs for nine consecutive years, and still counting.
The Senator Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 716, I'm not sure what your point is? . My point is very simple. The Bills have struggled for a decade. That is reflected in a miserable ranking of 29 out of 32 for the past decade. The team's record over that period was 60-84. The winning percentage for the decade is .417. The football operation has done a horrible job for an extended period of time. How can you dispute that point? I have never said that Brandon is to be blamed for their terrible record for such a long period of time. That is absurd. Are you aware that John Guy and Tom Modrak have been with the front office, Donahoe hires, during this extended mediocre run? My main point in the prior posting is that good teams have quality front offices. The Bills don't have it. That certainly is a major factor why the franchise has not participated in the playoffs for nine consecutive years, and still counting. I still disagree, John. While you can certainly question the decisions of the previous front offices between Polian and Brandon, last year was Brandon's 1st as GM so it's WAY premature to say we still don't have a quality front office. As I posted earlier, I really don't see a vast difference in Brandon's background from that of Bill Polian's, before Ralph promoted Polian to GM. (Or, for that matter, between Brandon's and Theo Epstein's in 2004, when he led the Red Sox to their first World Series title since 1918). For all we know, Brandon may well turn out to be one of the best GMs ever - let's wait and see.
birdog1960 Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I still disagree, John. While you can certainly question the decisions of the previous front offices between Polian and Brandon, last year was Brandon's 1st as GM so it's WAY premature to say we still don't have a quality front office. As I posted earlier, I really don't see a vast difference in Brandon's background from that of Bill Polian's, before Ralph promoted Polian to GM. (Or, for that matter, between Brandon's and Theo Epstein's in 2004, when he led the Red Sox to their first World Series title since 1918). For all we know, Brandon may well turn out to be one of the best GMs ever - let's wait and see. Your examples go to the heart of the argument. Why gamble on an unknown, unproven talent when established, albeit more expensive talent is available. The failure of the red sox for so many years speaks to the possibility of poor management over the decades more than a fortuitous good find of a capable but unproven GM. Same conclusion could be drawn of Polian. Even a blind squirrel will eventually find a nut. Why not just pay top dollar for a proven top prospect like the most consistently successful sports franchises do?
Orton's Arm Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 The thing about the 'cheap' argument I don't get is how much money would a 36 year old damaged goods tackle that 32 teams have passed on command anyway? The deal that the players' union negotiated with the owners requires older, veteran players, such as Runyan, to be paid a higher level of minimum salary than rookies receive. Minimum wage for a rookie is about $200K (give or take), which increases on a sliding scale to over $500K for a guy with a lot of experience. That said, I strongly disagree with the original poster's argument. This is likely Runyan's last season in the NFL; assuming some team is willing to sign him at all. The only value he'd provide to the Bills would come in the form of whatever playing time he received this season. For Runyan to get playing time, one of our (current) starting tackles would have to go down; and Chambers would likely have to go down also. Even supposing Runyan would be slightly better than Meredith over the short-term (a dubious assumption!), we still would likely get little to no short-term benefit from that fact. On the other hand, Meredith has the potential to become a good long-term addition to the line. Maybe not as a starter, necessarily, but as a guy who can provide quality depth.
The Senator Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Your examples go to the heart of the argument. Why gamble on an unknown, unproven talent when established, albeit more expensive talent is available. The failure of the red sox for so many years speaks to the possibility of poor management over the decades more than a fortuitous good find of a capable but unproven GM. Same conclusion could be drawn of Polian. Even a blind squirrel will eventually find a nut. Why not just pay top dollar for a proven top prospect like the most consistently successful sports franchises do? The failure of the Rad Sox for so many years had nothing to do with bad management or lack of talent - unlike the Bills 10-year drought you point to, the Sox were almost always 'in the hunt', only to end up on the losing side in the playoffs due to a twist of fate, the 'Curse of the Bambino', a fluke play like Billy Buckner's, or stroke of luck by some jerk like like Bucky Dent or Aaron Boone. And both Polian and Pioli relied on the draft more than veteran acquisitions to build their dynasties - in 2007, 19 of Indy's 22 starters came from draft choices, while 15 of New England's were draft picks. Dynasties are built thru the draft, not by overpaying for aging veterans whose talents are on the decline. No doubt the Bills have had bad management over the 10-year playoff drought. I'm just taking issue with your statement that they have a bad front office today - that is entirely unknown, as Brandon is only in his 2nd year as GM. Under Russ Brandon's leadership, we may very well be witnessing the beginnings of the next Bills dynasty - we'll have to wait and see. It's way too early to say Brandon's not a good GM - in fact, so far I'd say all evidence points to the contrary.
JohnC Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I still disagree, John. While you can certainly question the decisions of the previous front offices between Polian and Brandon, last year was Brandon's 1st as GM so it's WAY premature to say we still don't have a quality front office. As I posted earlier, I really don't see a vast difference in Brandon's background from that of Bill Polian's, before Ralph promoted Polian to GM. (Or, for that matter, between Brandon's and Theo Epstein's in 2004, when he led the Red Sox to their first World Series title since 1918). For all we know, Brandon may well turn out to be one of the best GMs ever - let's wait and see. Senator, The primary talent scouts on this team have been with this franchise during the team's decade long struggle. John Guy is the top pro scout and Tom Modrak is the top college scout. Their record, based on the performance of the team, has been dismal. I have stated on a vairety of postings that I thought this year's draft was very productive and sound. I have given credit to Brandon overseeing his first draft. But let's not get carried away here. Bill Polian will eventually be inducted in the HOF as a GM. Polian's forte is in assembling a quality staff and then making good picks. His record with the Bills, Carolina and the Colts speaks for itself. There is no way that our front office compares to the front offices of successful oganizations such as the Steelers, Eagles, Giants, Patriots, Ravens, Green Bay etc. There is a simple measure to gage the success of a front office: The team's record over an extended period of time. The Bills are far from being an upper tier organization from that standpoint.
The Senator Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Senator, The primary talent scouts on this team have been with this franchise during the team's decade long struggle. John Guy is the top pro scout and Tom Modrak is the top college scout. Their record, based on the performance of the team, has been dismal. I have stated on a vairety of postings that I thought this year's draft was very productive and sound. I have given credit to Brandon overseeing his first draft. But let's not get carried away here. Bill Polian will eventually be inducted in the HOF as a GM. Polian's forte is in assembling a quality staff and then making good picks. His record with the Bills, Carolina and the Colts speaks for itself. There is no way that our front office compares to the front offices of successful oganizations such as the Steelers, Eagles, Giants, Patriots, Ravens, Green Bay etc. There is a simple measure to gage the success of a front office: The team's record over an extended period of time. The Bills are far from being an upper tier organization from that standpoint. Again, last season was Brandon's first as GM - I don't think anyone was ready to induct Polian into the HOF in his 2nd year. In fact, Bills fans were extremely unimpressed with Polian in his first season as GM, as the Bills finished 2-14 for the 2nd consecutive year. They went 4-12 in his 2nd year, then 7-9 in his 3rd, before things all came together and the Bills dynasty of the late 80's/early 90s was finally in bloom. So PLEASE - at least let Russ Brandon finish his 2nd year on the job before condemning him to mediocrity.
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