I just watched Coach Jauron's PC from today.

[SouthernMan]

This post is coming out kind of crappy and I'm not explaining it as well as when it was in my head initially but I hope that some of my thoughts transcended enough to explain my intention of this post.

 

 

Actually, it's very lucid and well-said. Good post.

 

I'm often caught in the middle about coaches. Part of me says that no matter how good the coach, without the right players, he will not be successful. Conversely, there've been many coaches who inherited a good team (think Siefert, Switzer, Collier, etc.) and had fleeting residual success before they were exopsed and the thing blew up.

 

Humor me for a second.......Just for the sake of argument, let's look at the Jauron thing a different way; what if he made a medicore team out of one with less than average talent? Maybe those 7-9 teams had talent comensurate with more typical 4-12 teams.

 

He was dealing with a lousy offensive line, bad quarterback (JP), later swapped out for inexperienced one. Average receiving core. Fair-average tight end talent, fair-average linebacking, less than average defensive front, and maybe better than average secondary. Now tack on to that scenerio the infirmary list from the last couple of years. The injury numbers are just the luck of the draw, and it had to have an effect.

 

Then, consider that there were at least a couple of games last year (I'm not researching the archives) that were a play or two away from a victory. Right away, the Jets, Browns, and Cowboys games come to mind. The Bills weren't that far removed from being a 10-6 team. Again, keep in mind the obstacles they had in terms of talent and injuries.

 

There have been coaches in the league that have failed under less than ideal conditions - teams not have the right chemistry or mix of players, scouting, management, etc. Parcells, Belichick, Johnson, Gruden, and others have all struggled at one time or another, though all have won superbowls under a different set of circumstances.

 

Shula and Cowher have had 6 win seasons. Were they suddenly bad coaches? No. Circumstances beyond their immediate control dictated a season of struggle.

 

Jauron is obviously highly regarded by his players. How much of the success or failure can be attributed directly to the head coach is a tough call. I tend to think it's the whole package. All the pieces have to be in place in order for it to work.

I think over the past couple of years of drafts and signings, the Bills area finally putting together the kind of presonnel that are winners. Just looking at their revamped O-line as compared to the previous collection of mismatched road-graders tells me they're headed in the right direction. I can see the young Bills offense may be a power to be reckoned with in the coming years.

 

I hope that Dick Jauron can make all the naysayers eat crow by leading the Bills into the playoffs. I'm not an apologist for him, but like the original poster, I think we need to be fair, consider all the facts, and look at the situation as objectively as possible. Here's to his success in the coming weeks.

 

And yes, I think the Bills can and will beat the Saints.

[1billsfan]

I'm sorry but saying 3 years of horrible coaching just shows your biased. 2 of those seasons we started by a guy who couldn't get a NFL job after being a 1st round pick. 2007, we were decimated by injuries and still were at 7-6 with a big game against Cleveland. Additionally, he managed to have this team regroup after 3 heartbreaking MNF losses. The only year that could be considered bad is 2008 and Edwards' play is the major reason for the drop.

 

Face it. You have an agenda. But Jauron was never as bad of a coach as you and your rat pack make him out to be. Lack of talent and a legit NFL Qb were the major problems with the Bills. But you're probably the same genius who ran Mularkey and Gilbride out of town. When all else fails, blame the coach.

 

I think I gave a more than fair assessment of Dick Jauron, and back in the day I'm sure there were still Rich Kotite supporters whining about how injuries and lack of talent was standing between him and NFL coaching greatness.

[Mr. WEO]

i think you overlook the word "total."

that said, Tooth's blunt response takes away from some valid points raised by the original poster, who went out on a bit of a limb here in going against the grain of what some -- many? -- on this board truly and absolutely believe. the problem then becomes is the blunt response saps the momentum of the discussion of this thread, and i guess i'm contributing to it by in some ways defending the OP by questioning Tooth's response.

 

and of course, as in the past, i am the one who is attacked because i chose to humbly put my pithy two cents in. but what are you gonna do.

 

i maintain that The Replacements remain one of most influential rock bands to come out of North America, and Westerberg's latest release continues to show that he -- unlike the blather Springsteen released earlier this year -- remains relevant and progressive.

 

jw

I don't think the OP was going against the grain--in fact his post was nothing new at all. DJ's a classy guy, etc.---and of course, this: "I don't know just how good or lacking of a coach he is but one of my stronger points is reading people and this guy is a downright class act."

 

Most ehre probably don't think he has done a good job coaching.

 

If Tooth had left out the word "total", would it really, materially have changed his point?

[Tipster19]

Actually, it's very lucid and well-said. Good post.

 

I'm often caught in the middle about coaches. Part of me says that no matter how good the coach, without the right players, he will not be successful. Conversely, there've been many coaches who inherited a good team (think Siefert, Switzer, Collier, etc.) and had fleeting residual success before they were exopsed and the thing blew up.

 

Humor me for a second.......Just for the sake of argument, let's look at the Jauron thing a different way; what if he made a medicore team out of one with less than average talent? Maybe those 7-9 teams had talent comensurate with more typical 4-12 teams.

 

He was dealing with a lousy offensive line, bad quarterback (JP), later swapped out for inexperienced one. Average receiving core. Fair-average tight end talent, fair-average linebacking, less than average defensive front, and maybe better than average secondary. Now tack on to that scenerio the infirmary list from the last couple of years. The injury numbers are just the luck of the draw, and it had to have an effect.

 

Then, consider that there were at least a couple of games last year (I'm not researching the archives) that were a play or two away from a victory. Right away, the Jets, Browns, and Cowboys games come to mind. The Bills weren't that far removed from being a 10-6 team. Again, keep in mind the obstacles they had in terms of talent and injuries.

 

There have been coaches in the league that have failed under less than ideal conditions - teams not have the right chemistry or mix of players, scouting, management, etc. Parcells, Belichick, Johnson, Gruden, and others have all struggled at one time or another, though all have won superbowls under a different set of circumstances.

 

Shula and Cowher have had 6 win seasons. Were they suddenly bad coaches? No. Circumstances beyond their immediate control dictated a season of struggle.

 

Jauron is obviously highly regarded by his players. How much of the success or failure can be attributed directly to the head coach is a tough call. I tend to think it's the whole package. All the pieces have to be in place in order for it to work.

I think over the past couple of years of drafts and signings, the Bills area finally putting together the kind of presonnel that are winners. Just looking at their revamped O-line as compared to the previous collection of mismatched road-graders tells me they're headed in the right direction. I can see the young Bills offense may be a power to be reckoned with in the coming years.

 

I hope that Dick Jauron can make all the naysayers eat crow by leading the Bills into the playoffs. I'm not an apologist for him, but like the original poster, I think we need to be fair, consider all the facts, and look at the situation as objectively as possible. Here's to his success in the coming weeks.

 

And yes, I think the Bills can and will beat the Saints.

 

Wow, what an astute summary! This response said everything I meant plus more. I'm VERY impressed with your whole breakdown of our situation during the whole Jauron Era.

[thewildrabbit]

I'm sorry but saying 3 years of horrible coaching just shows your biased. 2 of those seasons we started by a guy who couldn't get a NFL job after being a 1st round pick. 2007, we were decimated by injuries and still were at 7-6 with a big game against Cleveland. Additionally, he managed to have this team regroup after 3 heartbreaking MNF losses. The only year that could be considered bad is 2008 and Edwards' play is the major reason for the drop.

 

Face it. You have an agenda. But Jauron was never as bad of a coach as you and your rat pack make him out to be. Lack of talent and a legit NFL Qb were the major problems with the Bills. But you're probably the same genius who ran Mularkey and Gilbride out of town. When all else fails, blame the coach.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with that statement. I blame a coach for last seasons poor QB play at times, and its not Jauron. The difference between Schonert and Alex Van Pelt is like night and day, all I did last season was complain about the formations and play calls.

 

Edwards was out injured in the 2nd Jets game with that JP roll out and the second half of the 49ers game and the play calls were the difference in those losses, two among many.

 

I think that AVP could have gotten much better results if he were the OC last season, play calling can be the difference between a decent team and a great team, in my opinion.

[Phlegm Alley]

I agree that Jauron hasn't had a fair shake at succedding here in Buffalo. I look at the drafts that the Bills have had, the FA pick ups (or lack there of), the quality of coaches that Jauron has surrounded himself with, and they haven't been the best. To me, most of the blame for this falls squarely on the shoulders of the Front Office and ownership.

 

However, when people talk about the lack of talent and the injuries that the Bills have had resulting in Jauron's tenure being mired in mediocrity, I think of the near talentless team the Dolphins had last year following a 1 win season and with a new regime including HC.

 

If the Dolphins can turn their fortunes around and improve their win total by 10 from the previous year, there are no excuses that Jauron and company can surround themselves with to exonerate their lack of success here in Buffalo.

[Delete This Account]

I don't think the OP was going against the grain--in fact his post was nothing new at all. DJ's a classy guy, etc.---and of course, this: "I don't know just how good or lacking of a coach he is but one of my stronger points is reading people and this guy is a downright class act."

 

Most ehre probably don't think he has done a good job coaching.

 

If Tooth had left out the word "total", would it really, materially have changed his point?

i think i've made my point in regards to what i thought about the word total.

 

jw

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

I don't think the OP was going against the grain--in fact his post was nothing new at all. DJ's a classy guy, etc.---and of course, this: "I don't know just how good or lacking of a coach he is but one of my stronger points is reading people and this guy is a downright class act."

 

Most ehre probably don't think he has done a good job coaching.

 

If Tooth had left out the word "total", would it really, materially have changed his point?

 

each year, for 48 hours minimum, you carve time out of the day to watch the Bills play football. you invest time, money, effort all because you love the game. maybe you go to training camp, maybe you spend countless hours (some on the boss's dime) reading and reviewing everything you can find. maybe you visit two bills drive and the stadium wall. maybe you live in Australia, maybe it's England, maybe it's Albany, NY.

 

when i'm being rational, i realize it isn't personal, these wide rights, home run throwbacks, "just give it to them" and mckelvin fumbles. dick j is responsible for a ton of things on game day, he has no personal animosity towards me, and is trying the best he can to win football games. i bet he wants a SB win as much as I do, and that's substantial. when i'm rational, i don't curse him, i don't yell when no one else is listening, i don't develop stabbing pain behind my eyes, i don't stew all night, unable to sleep, wondering why my father didn't move to more SB-friendly climes from my beloved WNY after coming back from the war in '45 like so many others.

 

now, when i'm not rational, which seems to be a lot of the time, i kick the furniture, i yell at my wife, and have even considered throwing the remote through my waited-forever-to-buy plasma tv. when at gillette stadium a couple weeks back, even when i knew that an 11 point lead against the pats in their house was simply not enough and that moss would likely catch a pass in the end zone as time expired after our boys went 3-and-out, as leodis dropped the ball, i screamed something along the lines of "rother-rucking-mock-ducking-son-of-askitch-hold-on-to-the-clucking-ball!". fortunately, like a tree alone in the woods, there was so much crowd noise my son didn't hear me.

 

anyway, dj's probably a pretty good guy. he's done some good things here and perhaps missed some opportunities. as far as i am concerned, rationally speaking, all is forgiven if he wins. the game really boils down to that for me. win. win a lot. make the playoffs.

 

fan is short for fanatic. the league relies on that like bill clinton relied on interns. dj will be ok.

[robertpaul49]

It seems to me that Dick Jauron's biggest issue as a coach has been that fact that he gets too conservative and the team goes into a shell during games.

 

Just like Caughlin in NY, I think that the being on the hot seat has made him get out of his comfort zone. Hiring AVP as offensive coordinator has helped a lot. Hiring TO. Did you see him get emotional about 4th and short? They went for it on fourth down. Using the no-huddle will help them in two minute drills. The Bills look a lot better this year.

 

Dick Jauron has always been good at getting his players to play at a high level.

 

I definitely agree with Wilson that one of the biggest problems for the Bills has been a lack of talent. The whole thread about the early 90s teams versus the current team demonstrates that.

[Mr. WEO]

It seems to me that Dick Jauron's biggest issue as a coach has been that fact that he gets too conservative and the team goes into a shell during games.

 

Just like Caughlin in NY, I think that the being on the hot seat has made him get out of his comfort zone. Hiring AVP as offensive coordinator has helped a lot. Hiring TO. Did you see him get emotional about 4th and short? They went for it on fourth down. Using the no-huddle will help them in two minute drills. The Bills look a lot better this year.

 

Dick Jauron has always been good at getting his players to play at a high level.

 

I definitely agree with Wilson that one of the biggest problems for the Bills has been a lack of talent. The whole thread about the early 90s teams versus the current team demonstrates that.

I disagree. We are where we were a year ago--and the "irrational exuberance" is making its appearance even sooner this year (one win!).

 

I have the sneaking suspicion that DJ is holding this team back. I may be proven wrong, but (DJ) history, especially recent, is on my side.

 

What happens when we are 1-3? Well, you all know the answer.

[Bufcomments]

Reality time. There are many nice guys in this world... OK, he's one of them.

 

However, as an NFL head coach,he's a total loser!!! Always has been, always will be.

 

Barak Obama is a nice guy. As president... he's a total zero.

Yea Jauron is a cool guy, he proved it with the Shades he were this past weekend.

 

But he has some proving to do on the field, but to his credit they have done good this season so far ....

 

Id take Barak Obama over George Bush any day of the week. It gonna take years to undo the mess Bush II made.

[The Senator]

What happens when we are 1-3? Well, you all know the answer.

Yeah, we do - you all start calling for *Brady's and *Belichick's heads, and go back to rooting for the Giants.

[3rdnlng]

Yea Jauron is a cool guy, he proved it with the Shades he were this past weekend.

 

But he has some proving to do on the field, but to his credit they have done good this season so far ....

 

Id take Barak Obama over George Bush any day of the week. It gonna take years to undo the mess Bush II made.

 

Hate to see politics brought up on TSW but can't let this pass. What mess are you talking about?

[Bufcomments]

Hate to see politics brought up on TSW but can't let this pass. What mess are you talking about?

on page one of the replys some idiot said that Barak Obama was a loser like Jauron.

 

I had to say something about that.

[3rdnlng]

on page one of the replys some idiot said that Barak Obama was a loser like Jauron.

 

I had to say something about that.

Answer the question. What mess are you talking about?

[Sisyphean Bills]

Since, this is a Buffalo Bills message board, both praise and criticism will be posted here and much of that commentary is specifically about the game of football. (Admittedly, some posts here are over the top.) There is no contradiction whatsoever in praising Dick Jauron the human being and criticizing his football record. He's a great person, more people should be like him in fact. But, his record as a head football coach in the NFL is amongst the worst of all time for his longevity.

 

The trouble with the apologists pleas of "never had any talent" and their other pet blame games is that these are false argument based on the notion that the head of the football team can be cleanly excised from the situation and all failures within that organization are one-way and always come from the other direction. "It's never his fault that everyone around him let's him down." This line of argument can't see the forest for the trees because it is field of focus is honed in on a patch of bark of a particular tree.

 

Take the sloppily contrived QB excuse. In this one, the failing of the organization as a whole is dumped on a QB. It's never mentioned that the organization drafted the QB, developed the QB, had multiple off-seasons to seek out better alternatives, had the money under the cap for alternatives, passed on better alternatives in the draft many times, had a number of OCs and QB coaches come through learning on the job, nor even that this was just another in a long line of failed QBs and has a history as a systemic problem for the organization. Using the fact that JP Losman turned out to be a bust as some universal catch-all to excuse the Bills franchise for their historic ineptitude, the last decade of no playoffs, or Dick Jauron's own terrible W-L record is self-delusion. Yes, JP was not good enough; but, he was "good enough" to hoodwink this franchise and set them back at least 5 full seasons.

 

It comes down to one simple thing: Winning. This is a competitive game and as Herm Edwards once ranted "you play to win the game" and ultimately to win championships. It is Dick Jauron's job as the head coach of this team to be in charge and win this team a Super Bowl. "If the head isn't in charge, you have nothing but chaos and nothing good comes out of that."

[Cynical]

I'm sorry but saying 3 years of horrible coaching just shows your biased. 2 of those seasons we started by a guy who couldn't get a NFL job after being a 1st round pick. 2007, we were decimated by injuries and still were at 7-6 with a big game against Cleveland.

 

And the Bills lost vs. Cleveland. In fact, they lost the following games to end the season at 7-9.

In 2007, the Bills were decimated by injuries, and finished with a losing record.

I get it. With you apologists, a losing record is considered a "miracle".

 

Additionally, he managed to have this team regroup after 3 heartbreaking MNF losses. The only year that could be considered bad is 2008 and Edwards' play is the major reason for the drop.

 

Another apologist concept:

 

Good result (even if it has to be made up) = because Jauron

 

Bad result = because of the players

 

Face it. You have an agenda.

 

Don't forget to look in the mirror ...

 

But Jauron was never as bad of a coach as you and your rat pack make him out to be.

 

No, 1 winning season out of 8 makes that determination.

The consistent inability to beat teams with winning records make that determination.

Making boneheaded game day decisions make that determination.

 

Lack of talent and a legit NFL Qb were the major problems with the Bills. But you're probably the same genius who ran Mularkey and Gilbride out of town.

 

WOW, 1billsfan, you hold some serious influence within the Bills organization, especially considering you live in the Tampa area. Are you part of the "inner circle"?

 

When all else fails, blame the coach players.

 

Jauron's apologists creedo: It's never Jauron's fault.

[Dan]

with either assessment, you leave absolutely no room for gray area. it's not just you, but merely a reflection of where we are in this age of immediacy, so please don't take it personally, though i'm sure you just might. so i'll take no offense.

 

it's always one or the other. black or white. euphoria or depression. great? no: sucks!

i'd hate to live in that kind of world that lacks noble nuance, a place and time which forces us to actually have to make assessments on our own rather than knee-jerk every immediate reaction and send it out on twitter because the information beast needs to be fed. it's always thumbs up or thumbs down.

 

but what do i know because you can count me among the sudden few still trying to figure things out.

 

jw

 

BULLETIN: Paul Westerberg has released 6 new songs, which are out on amazon. 4 are very good, 2 so so. i am excited with this.

Very well said.

 

 

When last season ended, I was firmly and passionately in the fire Jauron camp. However, he was retained. So, what choice do we have but to sit back, watch and hope for the best. I will say this... he's shown more in this young season than he has in the past 3 combined, IMO. The team may be 1-1; however, they've played very well and look like a competitive NFL team out there.

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm back in the Jauron's great camp. It'll take more than a couple of decent weeks to do that. But, the team looks solid right now. They're playing well. Can they finish the season like they're trying to learn to finish games, though? That's my question. So, for me, its still very much a wait and see with regards to Jauron's coaching in 2009. Until the end I'll hope for the best.

[West End Stench]

It's breath of fresh air to watch and listen to someone who exudes honesty, integrity and sincerity. No cat and mouse replies or deceptive verbage. I liked it and I find myself impressed and liking Coach Jauron..... a lot. I don't know just how good or lacking of a coach he is but one of my stronger points is reading people and this guy is a downright class act.

 

I don't know what really goes on within an organization with their football operations. I like to think that I know something and to speculate with my opinion and intuition but the reality is I don't know squat about it and I strongly suspect that most of us don't either. I'll admit that going into the season I had very little hope of our success and was becoming more and more anti-Jauron but seeing what has happen so far this season, and yes I do realize that it has only been two games, I'm starting to think that I just might have erred in my conviction of him.

 

It's not just the coach who is the end all with a team, he's just more of the face of a team, someone who is the public identity of a team and franchise. He isn't the one who is solely responsible for who's on the team. The GM is probably the one who carries the most clout in the final say in what becomes a team's personnel. Then the assistant coachs are accountable for holding up their end of responsibility also. Listen, I'm not foolish enough to think or believe that the coach holds most of the responsibility of what goes on with a team. I do still think that there isn't a ton of competency on the sidelines with the smaller aspects of a game with the nuances of clock management, play calling and decision making during a game but I think what a HC is most responsible for is the schemes and I think that Jauron is actually doing an admirable job so far this year.

 

I think that with Brandon being more solidified in his position, he is changing the mentality of this team with players who are good young football players and getting rid of the overpaid primadonnas. hence Coach Jauron is getting the proper players that he can develope and to be willing to execute the game plans/schemes more efficently.

 

This post is coming out kind of crappy and I'm not explaining it as well as when it was in my head initially but I hope that some of my thoughts transcended enough to explain my intention of this post.

 

PS- I actually believe that we stand more than a good chance of beating the Saints come this Sunday. Here's where the compensation may come in for always drafting all those secondary players we did in the last few years. We need McCargo/Williams/Maybin to get into that backfield and keep an awful lot of pressure on Brees. The Saints suddenly have some concerns with their RBs and I don't think their defense is gelling as much as they would have liked them to be this early into the season. We need Trent to stay upright and get the ball to our playmakers. I also think that TE Shawn Nelson just might have a much bigger game than expected and if not him then one of our TEs in addition to the Owens and Evans combo. I also wouldn't be surprised that if Josh Reed doesn't suit up for this game then Roscoe could be a very dangerous slot receiver for us in Reed's place during this particular contest. We would also need our ST returners to have huge returns and Moorman needs to bury the ball on any of his punts.

 

Thanks for your input, Mrs. Jauron.

[thewildrabbit]

Answer the question. What mess are you talking about?

Perhaps this has something to do with it?

 

This was written and posted on Sept 25 08

The national debt was about $5.7 trillion when Bush took office in January 2001. Today, after almost eight years and a couple of wars, the debt has risen to about $9.7 trillion.

http://www.2theadvocate.com/opinion/29726059.html

 

The max limit on the ND WAS 10.6 Trillion in 08, it is now at 11.4 Trillion and clicking at 3.88 million a day.The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $3.88 billion per day since September 28, 2007!