Thurman#1 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 mcgee and mckelvin might at corner, and whitner might now that theyve moved hin to FS. other than that im hard pressed to come up with any current bill at LB, on the Dline (which is a bit unfair because they used to play 3 - 4), but in any scheme im not sure jeff wright sits. on offense a similar picture emerges: no way edwards over kelly, or lynch or jackson over thurman, and none of the current offensive line or tight ends. but like defense, the further away from the line you get the better the current team might fair. andre reed was great but is he really a no-brainer over owens? also i see i give evans a slight nod over lofton. for 3rd receiver im staying with tasker over josh reed.for kicking game ill take morman at punter, but christie at field goals. so at most it seems like 4 to 6 of the current bills would find a spot on the early 90's team. makes you realize how talented the early 90's team was. I instantly thought of Stroud over Jeff Wright. I think we win one or two of those Super Bowls if you make this change.
Thurman#1 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'm sorry but I would take Don Beebe over Lee Evans every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not sure where the idea that Evans is so awesome comes from. Common sense. Observation. Logic. Stuff like that. Beebe isn't even in the same league.
KD in CA Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Lofton's HOF #'s were put up before he came to Buffalo (1978-1987). His play in Buffalo was good, but if you look at those years in a vacuum, he was an above average receiver. Yes, but he was still an excellent deep threat with very good hands.
Coach55 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Yea and Evans was the PRIMARY target and Beebe was the #3 guy on the chart....your argument is completely self defeating. And what exactly does Lee Evans do other than run a fly? Exactly. And Beebe was still better at that even. Beebe was not capable of being a top 2 receiver - even after he left the Bills. He was one-dimensional. If you put Evans opposite of Reed and Lofton, his numbers would be staggering. Outside of this year his counterparts were #3's at best. Now that he is in a system with a real coordinator, a decent QB and a good WR opposite him, let's see what kind of damage he does.
Pete Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I'm sorry but I would take Don Beebe over Lee Evans every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Not sure where the idea that Evans is so awesome comes from. put the crack pipe down
Thurman#1 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Conlan was very overrated and always made tackles 5 yards down the field. He benefited from playing with superior players around him and was not very good. Evans and Lofton are 2 different style of receivers. If you ever take a look at Lofton's stats - they are not spectacular:1990 - 35-712-4 1991 - 57-1072-8 1992 - 51-786-6 He was a bigger threat than anything. I could see the argument for Evans, but that's why I think they are a wash. Conlan was absolutely terrific as a run stuffer. Until his injuries anyway. You would take him over Poz any day.
Thurman#1 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Yea and Evans was the PRIMARY target and Beebe was the #3 guy on the chart....your argument is completely self defeating. And what exactly does Lee Evans do other than run a fly? Exactly. And Beebe was still better at that even. We can see that you're serious. And that's something.
DDD Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Conlan was very overrated and always made tackles 5 yards down the field. He benefited from playing with superior players around him and was not very good. Evans and Lofton are 2 different style of receivers. If you ever take a look at Lofton's stats - they are not spectacular:1990 - 35-712-4 1991 - 57-1072-8 1992 - 51-786-6 He was a bigger threat than anything. I could see the argument for Evans, but that's why I think they are a wash. "Conlan was very overrated and always made tackles 5 yards down the field." You sound like Marv Levy after drafting Puz to replace London Fletcher. And you are wrong.
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Beebe was not capable of being a top 2 receiver - even after he left the Bills. He was one-dimensional. If you put Evans opposite of Reed and Lofton, his numbers would be staggering. Outside of this year his counterparts were #3's at best. Now that he is in a system with a real coordinator, a decent QB and a good WR opposite him, let's see what kind of damage he does. Ok Ok I am going to back off of my assessment that Beebe was better than Evans. It may have been my bias towards Don Beebe giving him the edge over Evans. So I'll give Evans a slight nod there, but Lee Evans is no where near the caliber of player that many of you think he is. I am more than willing to bet that Beebe would have as good of numbers as Evans if he was the primary target in any offense. Lee Evans does not run good routes. Lee Evans is not in any way a threat over the middle. Lee Evans is not nearly big enough to beat double teams or win jump ball situations consistently. He is pretty much a carbon copy of Don Beebe. Both have/had great speed and reliable hands, and not much else. Both require a dynamic talent across the field to free them up to make receptions. Neither is capable of being an effective primary target. Neither is capable of forcing a team to change it's defensive game plan. (Andre Reed, James Lofton, and TO are all capable of doing that). So while I can give Lee the slight nod, it is such a close call as to be almost arbitrary.
JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 To be fair, let's go to the last of the Super Bowl rosters. There had been quite a bit of turnover by then, and the following players started: Offense Player Pos Hull, Kent C Davis, John G Parker, Glenn G Ballard, Howard T Fina, Joihn T Metzelaars, Pete TE Beebe, Don WR Brooks, Bill WR Reed, Andre RB Thomas, Thurman RB Kelly, Jim QB Defense Player Pos Wright, Jeff NT Hansen, Phil DE Smith, Bruce DE Patton, Marvcus OLB Talley, Darryl OLB Bennet, Cornelius ILB Maddox, Mark ILB Odomes, Nate CB Washington, Mickey CB Kelso, Mark FS Jones, Henry SS
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Beebe was not capable of being a top 2 receiver - even after he left the Bills. He was one-dimensional. If you put Evans opposite of Reed and Lofton, his numbers would be staggering. Outside of this year his counterparts were #3's at best. Now that he is in a system with a real coordinator, a decent QB and a good WR opposite him, let's see what kind of damage he does. If you put Lee Evans across from Reed and Lofton his numbers would be no where near as good as they are now. He simply would not get enough balls throw his way to post the same kinds of numbers as when he was the primary target in the offense. His numbers would have been very Don Beebeish. Evans career average yards per catch are a mere .4 yards better than Don Beebe (both of which are respectable - 15.6 ypc for Beebe and 16.0 ypc for Evans). The only real statistical difference between them is the number of receptions each has made, and with Reed and Lofton on the same field, Evans just wouldn't be the best option very frequently.
RussTheBus Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 roscoe and mckelvin are better returners than anybody we had in the 90's (sorry beebe). But roscoe's not making that team as a receiver. mckelvin could be the nickel (somebody else mentioned this too) and kick returner
SouthGeorgiaBillsFan Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Common sense. Observation. Logic. Stuff like that. Beebe isn't even in the same league. Oh really? How about you cite some of the "common sense, observations, and/or logic" that leads you to that conclusion? I bet you are one of those people who thinks Evans is the #1 receiver on our current depth chart too. Rather than just posting arbitrary statements that really have no substantive evidence supporting such, try to actually post an argument to support your claims. Otherwise, your "logic" is just jargon. I.E. describe what Lee Evans does that in your mind puts him in a different league as Don Beebe. Otherwise, don't comment, because comments like the one above depreciate your position.
Ramius Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Stroud makes it over Wright. I'd take Schobel's talent over Leon Seals, but Schobel would struggle in the 3-4. McGee makes it over JD Williams. Whitner makes it over Kelso. Whitner/Smith or Whitner/Jones would be a helluva safety combo. Evans makes it over Beebe as the #3 WR, behind Reed and TO. Moorman makes it over The 2-headed beast of Rick Tuten/Chris Mohr. I'd take Lindell over Norwood, but that doesn't mean i'd trust Lindell from 47 on grass. I haven't felt safe with a Bills kicker since Christie.
billsfreak Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 1. TO (easily better than Reed or Lofton)2. Terrence McGee I think that's about it. By the end of the season we may be ready to add a few more to the list. And Lee Evans over James Lofton is absolutely absurd. Also, the #3 receiver wasn't Tasker - it was Don Beebe, and yes, he is a no brainer over Josh Reed. You're a crack head dude-Easily better than Lofton and Reed? Your new to football aren't you?
Fewell733 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 These kind of comparisons aren't really fair for anyone. Most of the players today are just bigger and better athletes than the ones 15 years ago. Especially on defense and the offensive line. So what do you do? Guess how the players we have now would have been had they had the same training as the guys in the early 90s? I'd say that other than Bruce, Biscuit, Talley and Henry Jones - possibly the whole defense. Offense is tougher to say. Probably not many. But really, the 90s Bills offense is one of the greatest in NFL history. However, would the offense back then have been worse if you subbed in some of the guys we have today - like Levitre, Wood, Evans, TO? Probably not by much.
billsfreak Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 I think the only current Bill that would start hands-down on the 90's teams is Brian Moorman, not close. A few players would be close such as: Would take Roscoe Parrish as the punt returner and McGee as the Kick Returner. Stroud may go over Jeff Wright, but would take Smerlas over him any day of the week. In my opinion, other than these few, the Bills of the last 15 years aren't in the same class as the early 90's Bills.
truth on hold Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 I instantly thought of Stroud over Jeff Wright. I think we win one or two of those Super Bowls if you make this change. dont forget wright beat out smerlas when freddie still had some football left in him. this ones not obvious to me. wright = faster, stroud = bigger. but wasnt that the comparison vs smerlas and the coaches went with wright?
SteamRoller67 Posted September 23, 2009 Posted September 23, 2009 Yea and Evans was the PRIMARY target and Beebe was the #3 guy on the chart....your argument is completely self defeating. And what exactly does Lee Evans do other than run a fly? Exactly. And Beebe was still better at that even. Haha....this is some funny sheeet! Did you marry Beebe's sister or something? Is he your boss? I suppose you want Reich over Edwards and Mark Pike over Kawika Mitchell.
truth on hold Posted September 23, 2009 Author Posted September 23, 2009 If you put Lee Evans across from Reed and Lofton his numbers would be no where near as good as they are now. He simply would not get enough balls throw his way to post the same kinds of numbers as when he was the primary target in the offense. His numbers would have been very Don Beebeish. Evans career average yards per catch are a mere .4 yards better than Don Beebe (both of which are respectable - 15.6 ypc for Beebe and 16.0 ypc for Evans). The only real statistical difference between them is the number of receptions each has made, and with Reed and Lofton on the same field, Evans just wouldn't be the best option very frequently. no way Beebe could have been #1 receiver on a team like Evans was the past few years. no one ever gave that scenario so much as a passing thought when the BB played. evans for sure over Beebe
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