Mike Martz giving props to Edwards

[Peter]

I'll give you this you did some research. I did the same about a year ago it was I'll guess and found those different sources of information. I wished it could have been the same site providing the information. I hate to be that guy but those numbers don't jive with what I, NFL pundits and yes some fans see. Yes the OBVIOUSLY dumb fans that think Trent has a less than stellar arm, not the obvious smart fans who think otherwise. Perhaps under combine conditions Edwards arm really isn't that far behind some other guys. At the same time I see what I seek week in and week out.

 

I could go through the math again and try to give "tardnation" some thing to double check with his slide rule for a chance to try to belittle someone and feel superior about a non football opinion math error projection but I won't bother. I went through the trouble of comparing Trent's combine rated arm speed based of these questionable sources stats vs JP at the time. A 2.4mph difference in ball speed for a 40 yard pass traveling an imaginary straight line yielded and appreciable amount of time something in the order of a few tenths of a sec longer for the ball to get there.

 

Take into consideration that in reality a ball travels in and arc and we are talking about even more time. Considering many DBs have 4.4, 4.3 speed and they can cover a LOT of ground in that time. This means that a DB can close on a WR and make a play on the ball much easier with only a 2+ mph difference in ball speed. This can make the difference between QBs where they both than throw the over the shoulder rainbow to the outside or to a WR that got behind the coverage. But the one with the greater ball speed can make that deep down the middle of the field throw between defenders.

 

Again for the cheap seats and the Trent nut sack swingers. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT TRENT CAN'T BE EFFECTIVE! This just means that Trent can't make some throws that some other QBs can make. No amount of timing allows you to jam a ball into that tight window when it opens up. You need brute force!

 

 

What do you think of Big Ben's arm? (just .5 mph faster than Trent's).

 

What did you think of that pass to TO (the one he dropped)?

 

I am not saying that Trent has Dan Marino's arm. He does not have to though in order to succeed in this league. I would much rather have Trent's arm (which is pretty darn good) than some of the "big arms" that people talk about at draft time or who are in the NFL. Many of the QBs in the league would not be able to run our offense (especially QBs with Trent's limited experience).

 

Trent's arm is fine. He is smart. He works hard. He is not a prima donna. He has a lot of upside. I am happy that he is our QB.

[timba]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...-vs-Chiefs-2008

vs.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/09...3-Buccaneers-20 (at 0:21)

 

In the first vid, Trent doesn't put too much under the ball and Lee is able to run under the ball in stride. It's just a little long but it's the kind of pass I'd rather see than in the first vid where Lee obviously has to slow up (you can see it when watching his feet) and the defenders then have a chance to make a play. He put it in the right place but just a step or two too late. Yeah, it's picky, but there's room for improvement!

[PDaDdy]

Yes, I'm disputing exactly that. By what criteria do you assess his weak arm strength? By your own admission it's by what you see on TV. I'm saying some people, people who get paid to assess arm strength, strongly disagree with your assessment. Hell, even those who do it for a hobby disagree.

 

Likewise, I'm not going to repeat what's already been said. I'll just say Edwards is indeed in the top half of the league in arm strength. Again, I'll take the word of people I know who know better.

 

It's been fun.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

No I know and MY people know better. LOL....We've gotten a little childish about this haven't we? You and me both.

 

Until my eyes see other wise there will be a group of pundits and fans that will not say he has a big arm. I suppose there will be another group that claims he does. Just a difference of opinion. In all of this I have personally lost sight of the fact that Trent is looking good so far this year.

 

I could also refer to the stats that another post put up regarding ball speed. Look for the guys who are in the NFL and have been starting QBs. I would wager that Trent is not in the top half of that list. And those are supposed crappy combine numbers which I don't put a ton of stock in.

[K-9]

I'll give you this you did some research. I did the same about a year ago it was I'll guess and found those different sources of information. I wished it could have been the same site providing the information. I hate to be that guy but those numbers don't jive with what I, NFL pundits and yes some fans see. Yes the OBVIOUSLY dumb fans that think Trent has a less than stellar arm, not the obvious smart fans who think otherwise. Perhaps under combine conditions Edward's arm really isn't that far behind some other guys. At the same time I see what I see week in and week out.

 

I could go through the math again and try to give "tardnation" some thing to double check with his slide rule for a chance to try to belittle someone and feel superior about a non football opinion math error projection but I won't bother. I went through the trouble of comparing Trent's combine rated arm speed based of these questionable sources stats vs JP at the time. A 2.4mph difference in ball speed for a 40 yard pass traveling an imaginary straight line yielded and appreciable amount of time something in the order of a few tenths of a sec longer for the ball to get there.

 

Take into consideration that in reality a ball travels in and arc and we are talking about even more time. Considering many DBs have 4.4, 4.3 speed and they can cover a LOT of ground in that time. This means that a DB can close on a WR and make a play on the ball much easier with only a 2+ mph difference in ball speed. This can make the difference between QBs where they both than throw the over the shoulder rainbow to the outside or to a WR that got behind the coverage. But the one with the greater ball speed can make that deep down the middle of the field throw between defenders.

 

Again for the cheap seats and the Trent nut sack swingers. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT TRENT CAN'T BE EFFECTIVE! This just means that Trent can't make some throws that some other QBs can make. No amount of timing allows you to jam a ball into that tight window when it opens up. You need brute force!

 

Well gee, one of those "pundits" is referred to in the thread title. Who are these "other" pundits you speak of? I'd like to see their quotes saying Edwards has a weak arm. I'd like to see ANY report that says he has a weak arm.

 

As for the bolded portion, what throws EXACTLY can't TE make? Are you confusing "can't" with "won't" or "hasn't attempted?" No amount of timing required? Just brute force to get a ball into a tight window? Interesting take you have.

 

I wasn't going to get back into the debate but after your childish and thinly disguised insult, I couldn't help myself.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[PDaDdy]

What do you think of Big Ben's arm? (just .5 mph faster than Trent's).

 

This is why I question those stats. Using your eyes do you think there is only a .5 mph difference in the speed of the ball they throw? Be honest now!

 

What did you think of that pass to TO (the one he dropped)?

 

It was a great pass. No ifs, ands, or buts. This issue is apparently so polarizing that some could think that wasn't a great pass. It was PERFECT! TO dropped a potential TD if not just a huge gain.

 

I am not saying that Trent has Dan Marino's arm. He does not have to though in order to succeed in this league. I would much rather have Trent's arm (which is pretty darn good) than some of the "big arms" that people talk about at draft time or who are in the NFL. Many of the QBs in the league would not be able to run our offense (especially QBs with Trent's limited experience).

 

Trent's arm is fine. He is smart. He works hard. He is not a prima donna. He has a lot of upside. I am happy that he is our QB.

 

I'm not quite happy yet but there is hope. He has looked good again to start this year. I have said this so many times it is getting comical but I am not saying that he can't be effective, just that he doesn't have a big arm. It is big enough to play the game, but not a BIG arm.

[PDaDdy]

Well gee, one of those "pundits" is referred to in the thread title. Who are these "other" pundits you speak of? I'd like to see their quotes saying Edwards has a weak arm. I'd like to see ANY report that says he has a weak arm.

 

If you make a request for information you should be prepared to do the same. You show me yours and I'll show you mine. LOL. Show me the "pundits" descriptions of his strong arm.

 

As for the bolded portion, what throws EXACTLY can't TE make? Are you confusing "can't" with "won't" or "hasn't attempted?" No amount of timing required? Just brute force to get a ball into a tight window? Interesting take you have.

 

Good point! Perhaps you are actually right and that Trent is capable of making those throws. Sadly we don't know at this point because he DOESN'T make those throws.

 

I wasn't going to get back into the debate but after your childish and thinly disguised insult, I couldn't help myself.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Sorry about that but I thought I was trying to meet half way on that. I'm probably wrong but I thought I kept things to a heated discussion with you.

 

With StupidNation things got personal because he was attacking projection errors and insulting my intelligence. Typical strategy for some with nothing to share. Attack, spelling, grammar or math, act superior, repeat. All the while not actually contributing anything of value to the discussion.

[SteamRoller67]

I thought Edwards played well, but except for the pass that Owens dropped, it looked like all of this deep passes were underthrown.

 

Are we talking inches, feet, meters?

 

They were all completions minus the T.O. drop. I'm not an Edwards apologist by any stretch, but they're all beautiful when they're caught by the same color jersey...

[stuckincincy]

I have been hard on the guy but he has given fans some hope coming out of the gate. I hope he keeps it up.

 

So do I.

 

He's in for a rough go, though. There's likely some payback coming for Fewell's blitz calls and Mitchell's high shot to Leftwich's face. All teams get the films and players settle scores. IMO, Fewell's tossing the gloves off and directing the troops to bust Leftwich into pieces means that TE is fair game.

[Magox]

Easy! This was in response to an assertion that I was now changing the subject to be about arm strength and away from effectiveness. An assertion that my marker was Jamarcus Russell and Jay Cutler for acceptable or big arm strength.

 

 

 

Yes I have yet to see these IN SEASON...scouting reports. On this I should have been more specific. We all know that pre-draft scouting reports are speculation at best. We just need to look as far as Tom Brady the poster boy for useless pre-draft scouting reports.

 

 

 

Again consistent with my desire to see current scouting reports that are relevant to the player he is now not what people speculated about before the draft.

 

 

 

When I bring up a point about Trent's arm strength the retort was to discuss his effectiveness, bring up other successful QBs with weak arms and assert that I was making over the top comparison to the elite of the elite arms in the NFL like Cutler and Russell.

 

 

 

There were excerpts from all over the place without the original post I was responding too. Quoting me out of context created some confusion for me. In context there was room for interpretation I suppose. Hope that clears it up for you.

TE has a below average arm in the NFL but a strong enough arm to make most of the throws that you would like for your QB to make.

 

TE has above average accuracy and poise (when his confidence isn't shaken).

 

The X factor is his smarts, he seems to be very comfortable with audibling out of plays and running the no huddle.

 

The guy has less than 27 starts in his career, and I would say that he is moving in the right direction. There is no doubt in my mind that if he can stay healthy (and that is a very big if) and that he can stay confident, we will have ourselves one hell of a QB.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

There is NO question about TE's arm strength.

 

There was NEVER a question coming out of college.

 

There has NEVER been a question by pro-personnel directors since he arrived in the pros.

 

The ONLY people who've questioned it are the fans. Mostly, I believe, because of the comparisons to JP. Well, there are only TWO, count 'em, TWO QBs that I can think of that currently have Losman arm strength in the NFL: Cutler and Russell. There may be others but I'll let the experts rate them. My point is JP arm strenth is RARE.

 

To those fans who MUST question Edwards' arm strength, why have SO many teams sought to take Evans out of the offense with man-over coverage since 2007? Why did the vaunted GENIUS Belichick* play cover-2 all night in the opener? Why did TE make Tampa Bay PAY for the few times they offered single coverage?

 

Enough about Edwards' arm strength.

 

To those making the point about timing, that's the main thing. Look for teams to continue to pay for what they're giving our offense. When we do that consistently, and TE has a ways to go IMO, then it'll be fun to take what we want as a result more often.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Thanks Trent. Good Luck this week. 33 may not be enough this week. Go Bills !!!

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

The one that most posters on here say he can`t throw?? Tell them again Mike.

 

I for one have been pointing out the flagrant stupidity of those posters for a long time.

[SouthGeorgiaBillsFan]

All those posters seem to forget the hell of a bomb Edwards threw to Lee Evans against Miami a few years ago. Watch that play and there's no way you say Trent has no arm.

 

What about the Chargers game last year? The first game back after his concussion I might add - he absolutely was rifling the ball all over the field. I remember one throw to Roscoe that Trent made while falling backwards, across his body, and close to 30 yards down the field, that was as on the money as it could possibly be. That isn't just good arm strength - it is exceptional.

[Thoner7]

I thought Edwards played well, but except for the pass that Owens dropped, it looked like all of this deep passes were underthrown.

 

The two to Owens were perfect, the ones to Evans underthrown. Edwards gets a second TD to Evans if that second one was on target. That to me means Evans is just faster than TO and Edwards mis-judged it. Expect that to be addressed -- and maybe some overthrows to Owens in the near future... Thats just football.