AF88Bills Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 One thing I never understood was the how the Bills O-line players didn't seem to match the scheme they were expected to play. Until recently, the Bills had the 2nd heaviest O-line in the NFL, yet they were not a mauling or grinding type offense. This year with the implementation of the no huddle, the ejection of a 368lb tackle, a 345 lb tackle, and 326 lb guard, maybe we have the personnel to match the system that coach Kugler is trying to implement. I don't think any of our starters are over 310 lbs. Notice how there seems to be a lot more movement with pulling guard/center, or screen plays. Should we give credit where credit is due and say the Bills matched the right type of players for the right system...hence the current success in the running and passing game? Needless to say, I like where they are going, compared to where they were. thoughts?
mead107 Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 1 simple reason, the young guys are hungry.
The Senator Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 1 simple reason, the young guys are hungry. Jason Peters was hungry too - take a look... link
mead107 Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Jason Peters was hungry too - take a look... link You are right about that.
PDaDdy Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 One thing I never understood was the how the Bills O-line players didn't seem to match the scheme they were expected to play. Until recently, the Bills had the 2nd heaviest O-line in the NFL, yet they were not a mauling or grinding type offense. This year with the implementation of the no huddle, the ejection of a 368lb tackle, a 345 lb tackle, and 326 lb guard, maybe we have the personnel to match the system that coach Kugler is trying to implement. I don't think any of our starters are over 310 lbs. Notice how there seems to be a lot more movement with pulling guard/center, or screen plays. Should we give credit where credit is due and say the Bills matched the right type of players for the right system...hence the current success in the running and passing game? Needless to say, I like where they are going, compared to where they were. thoughts? I wouldn't attribute the success in the running and the passing game to the offensive line just yet. I think that the play calling and the attention TO demands have just a LITTLE something to do with it. The line is performing about as what I expected. They get their share of penalties. They miss some assignments but in general are doing well for a bunch of REALLY young guys that have had a portion of the off season to play with each other. Good job so far! BUT...definitely room for improvement. I still don't think they are a GOOD line yet but they aren't a huge liability. Lots to look forward to though. And YES, the young smaller guys do seem to better fit the tempo of the no huddle!
AF88Bills Posted September 21, 2009 Author Posted September 21, 2009 I wouldn't attribute the success in the running and the passing game to the offensive line just yet. I think that the play calling and the attention TO demands have just a LITTLE something to do with it. The line is performing about as what I expected. They get their share of penalties. They miss some assignments but in general are doing well for a bunch of REALLY young guys that have had a portion of the off season to play with each other. Good job so far! BUT...definitely room for improvement. I still don't think they are a GOOD line yet but they aren't a huge liability. Lots to look forward to though. And YES, the young smaller guys do seem to better fit the tempo of the no huddle! i would attribute some to TO, but at the same time, these guys have held their own, and I think they are only going to get better. I think Coach Kugler knows what he wants is shaping this unit into that. Last year the line was a unit with an identity crisis. They were big and slow, but not mauling. This year they are smaller, more athletic, and have a lot of movement assiated with their plays. I think it's very similar to what the Denver Broncos used to run. From what I've seen, they've been giving trent more time to throw, and they've been getting to the second level on run plays. Yes TO recieves more attention, but at the same time these guys seem are fitting a system I think will work in Buffalo.
UB2SF Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 Good post -- I think this is one of the ingredients. This concept struck me, too, hearing Freddy's post-game press conference. One of the specific things he mentioned was "D Bell getting out in front and pulling for me"... which something I haven't heard from a Bills running back in a long long time.
PDaDdy Posted September 21, 2009 Posted September 21, 2009 i would attribute some to TO, but at the same time, these guys have held their own, and I think they are only going to get better. I think Coach Kugler knows what he wants is shaping this unit into that. Last year the line was a unit with an identity crisis. They were big and slow, but not mauling. This year they are smaller, more athletic, and have a lot of movement assiated with their plays. I think it's very similar to what the Denver Broncos used to run. From what I've seen, they've been giving trent more time to throw, and they've been getting to the second level on run plays. Yes TO recieves more attention, but at the same time these guys seem are fitting a system I think will work in Buffalo. One of the post game reports spoke to how BOTH TO and Lee Evans were getting double teamed on the same play down field sometimes. That ties up 4 DBs on 2 WR(Running total 4). Defenses rush a base 4 lineman(Running total 8). That leaves 3 of 11 defenders to cover everyone else. Our RB, 3rd WR and TE now have single coverage against LBs and nickel or dime package DBs...WITH NO BLITZ!! Send another guy at Trent and now Lee or Terrell are single covered or someone isn't covered at all. Sound familiar???? I offer that up as a possible explanation for why Fred Jackson, Josh Reed and the TE's were SO instrumental at several points in the game. AVP saw who was getting favorable match ups and WORKED EM!!! I get the feeling that the right play is being called at the right time MUCH MUCH more often than I did with The Turk. Like the car salesman says on local tv...THAT'S HUGE-A! ... That my man, is the TO effect. Effectively exploited by AVP and executed by Trent I might add I too believe that this line will get better. Neither of us are going out on a limb by saying that. Second year starter and 2 rookies that have all of 2 games a piece under their belt. How can they NOT get better. LOL.
Big Turk Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 1 simple reason, the young guys are hungry. another simple reason....they are good...
vincec Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 If all it took was being big and heavy to be a good OL then Jerry Crafts would be in the hall of fame.
berndogg Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 It's funny how we have the smallest O-line we've had in years, yet we're finally getting a push on running plays. Watching it live, you could really see wood and hangartner in particular pushing their guys around, especially in the second half. I think it goes to show that explosiveness and leverage are more important than brute size and strength when it comes to run blocking. I'm really excited about what these guys can do as they mature and gel with each other and I'm even more excited to see what Marshawn's gonna be able to do when he gets back.
AF88Bills Posted September 22, 2009 Author Posted September 22, 2009 It's funny how we have the smallest O-line we've had in years, yet we're finally getting a push on running plays. Watching it live, you could really see wood and hangartner in particular pushing their guys around, especially in the second half. I think it goes to show that explosiveness and leverage are more important than brute size and strength when it comes to run blocking. I'm really excited about what these guys can do as they mature and gel with each other and I'm even more excited to see what Marshawn's gonna be able to do when he gets back. Not to discredit what some others have said about TO opening things up....but I definitely think that out lighter, leaner, meaner guys are making a difference...during the preseason we were left for dead considering all the changes being made, but they ended up cutting the fat that's been dragging them down. I think that coach Kugler is doing a great job with these guys...and the system he's using is playing to their strengths. I think its very simliar to what the Denver Broncos used. Only time will tell, but right now its a promising start.
PDaDdy Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 It's funny how we have the smallest O-line we've had in years, yet we're finally getting a push on running plays. Watching it live, you could really see wood and hangartner in particular pushing their guys around, especially in the second half. I think it goes to show that explosiveness and leverage are more important than brute size and strength when it comes to run blocking. I'm really excited about what these guys can do as they mature and gel with each other and I'm even more excited to see what Marshawn's gonna be able to do when he gets back. +1 on Marshawn. I hope it doesn't take him long if at all to get in sync with these new guys under live conditions.
bills_red Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I love how we have been running pulling plays off to Bell and Andys' side.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 i'm going with the theory that we replaced overpaid, lazy, SOFT, slobs with young, enthusiastic, intelligent, angry, athletic guys who WANT to play just my .02 of uninformed rambling
Alphadawg7 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 One thing I never understood was the how the Bills O-line players didn't seem to match the scheme they were expected to play. Until recently, the Bills had the 2nd heaviest O-line in the NFL, yet they were not a mauling or grinding type offense. This year with the implementation of the no huddle, the ejection of a 368lb tackle, a 345 lb tackle, and 326 lb guard, maybe we have the personnel to match the system that coach Kugler is trying to implement. I don't think any of our starters are over 310 lbs. Notice how there seems to be a lot more movement with pulling guard/center, or screen plays. Should we give credit where credit is due and say the Bills matched the right type of players for the right system...hence the current success in the running and passing game? Needless to say, I like where they are going, compared to where they were. thoughts? Simple answer = Because they are more talented
DonInBuffalo Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 i'm going with the theory that we replaced overpaid, lazy, SOFT, slobs with young, enthusiastic, intelligent, angry, athletic guys who WANT to play just my .02 of uninformed rambling I tend to agree with this. As an example, if Jason Peters wanted to play for the Bills, he would be a great fit for this kind of offense. He is very good at making downfield blocks to spring runners for big gains. How many other OL can you think of that are fast enough to play on a kickoff coverage team?
billsfan89 Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 Who would have thought that if you put high draft choices into an offensive line (1st round Wood second Levitre) it could have a positive effect. Also making smart moves with free agents (Hangartner) and developing your own players (Bell and to be fair they did it with Peters) are two things that yield good results. Now I am a very patient fan and I am not going to get excited about an offensive line playing 2 good games against an OK front 7 (Without Seymour and Mayo being hurt the Pats* front 7 is very average and the Bucs are nothing to write home about). BUT if you aren't going to play good against the bad and average teams who are you going to play good against? This line is working because Hangartner is a huge upgrade and the guards are preforming to their draft status while Bell is exceeding expectations and even though he is out Butler was doing a solid job at RT. As other posters have pointed out it helps to have a guy like TO command some respect along the outside as well as good play calling from AVP and the no huddle. The real test will be against the Jets and Fins both 3-4 teams who have talent and are in our division (Especially the Jets).
ColdBlueNorth Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 It's funny how we have the smallest O-line we've had in years, yet we're finally getting a push on running plays. Watching it live, you could really see wood and hangartner in particular pushing their guys around, especially in the second half. I think it goes to show that explosiveness and leverage are more important than brute size and strength when it comes to run blocking. I'm really excited about what these guys can do as they mature and gel with each other and I'm even more excited to see what Marshawn's gonna be able to do when he gets back. You had to love the way they handled that big Wilfork and others, these kids come to play. The extreemly cool thing is that they still have so much upside... they haven't come near their potential yet.
Bill from NYC Posted September 22, 2009 Posted September 22, 2009 I really like seeing so many posts on the OL. The reason it appears to be "working" is that the no-huddle goes far to mask the gaping hole (now holes) in it. I must also give some credit to the interior. Not only can they pull, but yardage up the middle is no longer an impossibility. Remember when Flutie was here? The OL was flat out dismal but he thrived on broken plays, and many were broken by design. He bought himself time by running all over the place. It has been working, but with Butler gone, the chickens of neglecting the OT position may well come home to roost. The above btw is NOT a dig at the Bills wrt the Peters situation. Peters can play LT like few others in this league, and we know how hard it is to get a guy like that. But, there are unresolved issues with his character, let alone did he want to play in Buffalo? We got Wood for him in the trade and one has to like that. Drafting Levitre was a great move too, so I credit the organization for finally addressing the issue of the interior line. It looks like they did it right this time by going with early draft resources. Next season is the time to finish the job, The Colts once took Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows in the first 2 rounds. That worked pretty well. The Bills need better OTs and DTs to be a strong team that is suited for the climate and fans. The direction the Bills go in 2010 will tell us all we need to know about them.
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